Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money

[AllByDesign]

The San Antonio Spurs.

Portionaly... The Coyotes owns them as well... or the NHL for that mattter.

 

[Killion]

IMO, (and that of GWI) the parking rights are basically being used by the City and the NHL as a mechanism to transfer $100M to Hulsizer.

Of course, and a very concise explanation LC. As such, it would appear then that the NHL does indeed own the Parking Rights as discussed at length about 2 threads back. Absent a transfer of said rights back to the COG, then; Houston, we have a problem here, or not?. Included in the purchase agreement with the NHL, the Parking Rights. Hulsizers to then sell back to the COG. Surely this would satisfy Goldwater, at least on that point no?. Maybe Im just stupid & dont "get it", but if you or I or the Man on the Moon buys the team from the NHL which includes the Parking Rights, whats stopping us from selling those rights back to the COG?. Sure the projected revenues & thus the valuations are askew & IMO wildly optimistic with the very real probability that excise taxes & general revenues will indeed be required to service the Bonds, but still, thats the COG's gamble, their call to make. Completely arguable in court.

 

[tarheelhockey]

In a letter sent to the Mayor and Councilmen of Glendale, Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist had this to say:

“Last November voters sent a clear message that they want government to stop frivolous spending and instead focus on core functions…Gone are the days when taxpayers are willing or able to foot the bill for government spending on things like Woodstock museums, cowboy poetry festivals, bridges to nowhere, and NPR. I doubt anyone’s definition of core functions includes subsidizing the millionaire’s purchase of a hockey team.”

This is what you call "burying the lead".

The purpose of the comment was likely just to get out a soundbyte lumping NPR with "frivolous" projects. That's the hot-button issue of the day for Tea Partiers.

 

[RAgIn]

TNSE is the owner of the Moose (I think). I have been wondering for awhile what the value of an AHL team is. If the Moose are moved are they sold? Or does the Moose become another source of income for TNSE if they are moved to another city and operated at a profit. Would seem funny for one owner of an NHL team to own the Farm team of another (conflict of interest).

It will be interesting to see just how this whole musical chairs thing shakes out.


Also, who owns Phoenix's farm club? How does all this work.

The Coyotes and Spurs Sports & Entertainment. Per Wikipedia. But I think I read somewhere, that SSE owns a vast majority of the team.

 

[cbcwpg]

with the tea party folks and Fox getting in on this, things are looking pretty bleak for Glendale. It's only a matter of time before political and public pressure mount for them to fold.

I just don't see the CoG folding. Somehow I see Mayor Scruggs saying : "I'll give you my team when you take it from my cold, dead hands"

If anyone is going to to fold its going to Hulsizer or the NHL giving up.

 

[Alberta Yote]

Portionaly... The Coyotes owns them as well... or the NHL for that mattter.

I am open to be proven wrong but I don't think the NHL/Coyotes own any part of them.

 

[MoreOrr]

Headless in Mombasa!

Right on cue! Though you could've said 'headless in Phoenix'.

 

[CasualFan]

I just don't see the CoG folding. Somehow I see Mayor Scruggs saying : "I'll give you my team when you take it from my cold, dead hands"

If anyone is going to to fold its going to Hulsizer or the NHL giving up.

I hope that no one folds and we get a lawsuit out of all this bluster. The idea of Goldwater calling Lieberman to the stand gives me a warm and happy feeling.

 

[crazed323]

I just don't see the CoG folding. Somehow I see Mayor Scruggs saying : "I'll give you my team when you take it from my cold, dead hands"

If anyone is going to to fold its going to Hulsizer or the NHL giving up.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

TNSE is the owner of the Moose (I think). I have been wondering for awhile what the value of an AHL team is. If the Moose are moved are they sold? Or does the Moose become another source of income for TNSE if they are moved to another city and operated at a profit. Would seem funny for one owner of an NHL team to own the Farm team of another (conflict of interest).

It will be interesting to see just how this whole musical chairs thing shakes out.


Also, who owns Phoenix's farm club? How does all this work.

San Antonio is owned by the Spurs. The moose is independent, as noted. Abbottsford is 50-50 with the flames.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Geez. Weren't they working on an expansion team for Thunder Bay (ECHL)?

They were, until they tried to get the city of Thunder Bay to build them an arena and the city said no.

 

[crazed323]

TNSE is the owner of the Moose (I think). I have been wondering for awhile what the value of an AHL team is. If the Moose are moved are they sold? Or does the Moose become another source of income for TNSE if they are moved to another city and operated at a profit. Would seem funny for one owner of an NHL team to own the Farm team of another (conflict of interest).

It will be interesting to see just how this whole musical chairs thing shakes out.


Also, who owns Phoenix's farm club? How does all this work.

anyone know this possibly?

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money

Someone is a Warren Zevon fan.....

edit: yeah ok. I'm late to the party.

 

[Killion]

The trouble is that even our best experts have not been able to find with any certainty that the NHL adopted this agreement. This may be the card that GW is holding.

Then who owns them?. Did they revert back to Steve Ellman?. This is obviously fundamental & crucial/critical to moving forward. I would be flabbergasted to learn that the COG & Hulsizer have crafted this dealeo' around the Parking Rights if Glendale didnt own the rights to transfer them to the Lease Holder in the first place or if the NHL didnt hold the rights and was able to transfer them to the purchaser, which also raises even more questions. Or is it as Fugu hilariously speculated, Judge Redfield T. Baum owns the Parking Rights, sitting on them like the Top Hatted gent from Monopoly. This is just crazy wild my friend..

 

[Killion]

Someone is a Warren Zevon fan..... edit: yeah ok. I'm late to the party.

Your not one of those Excitable Boys are ya?. C'mon in anyway, fill yer boots....

 

[AllByDesign]

I am open to be proven wrong but I don't think the NHL/Coyotes own any part of them.

June 30, 2005
Spurs Sports & Entertainment purchases the Florida Panthers portion of Rampage franchise, assuming sole ownership of AHL club. Also enters multi-year affiliation agreement with Phoenix Coyotes (NHL). Laurence Gilman will serve as General Manager, Pat Conacher will serve as Head Coach and Gord Dineen will serve as assistant coach/director of hockey operations (all served in similar capacities with Utah Grizzlies-Coyotes’ AHL affiliate-during 2004-05 season).

http://www.sarampage.com/team/history/


I stand corrected.

 

[nickschultzfan]

with the tea party folks and Fox getting in on this, things are looking pretty bleak for Glendale. It's only a matter of time before political and public pressure mount for them to fold.

It was a bad deal for the taxpayers Glendale to begin with. All the Goldwater Institute did was bring that fact to light.

The city of Glendale will be in better shape to put in a minor league team in the arena and then make money on concerts.

 

[nickschultzfan]

This is what you call "burying the lead".

The purpose of the comment was likely just to get out a soundbyte lumping NPR with "frivolous" projects. That's the hot-button issue of the day for Tea Partiers.

Not to turn this into a political discussion, but NPR is pretty damn frivolous in the age of the internet, podcasts, and cable TV.

If NPR is so great, it will survive just fine. If it isn't, then taxpayers should be keeping it afloat.

 

[crazed323]

It was a bad deal for the taxpayers Glendale to begin with. All the Goldwater Institute did was bring that fact to light.

The city of Glendale will be in better shape to put in a minor league team in the arena and then make money on concerts.

If phoenix is a hockey market they will support whatever team is there.

 

[AllByDesign]

Then who owns them?. Did they revert back to Steve Ellman?. This is obviously fundamental & crucial/critical to moving forward. I would be flabbergasted to learn that the COG & Hulsizer have crafted this dealeo' around the Parking Rights if Glendale didnt own the rights to transfer them to the Lease Holder in the first place or if the NHL didnt hold the rights and was able to transfer them to the purchaser, which also raises even more questions. Or is it as Fugu hilariously speculated, Judge Redfield T. Baum owns the Parking Rights, sitting on them like the Top Hatted gent from Monopoly. This is just crazy wild my friend..

Rich Uncle Pennybags? Maybe he does...

The way I follow it, is that if the NHL didn't adopt that agreement, it would have been deferred back to the City. If the City was giving it to the team as per a new lease agreement, it would be the starting point for a law suit. Since it seems only the COG and GWI have the documents to support their cases. I am sure it would be a rivetting court proceeding...

Yup... Pennybags owns the parking rights... should have been charging for that parking...

 

[Einstein Theory]

Dumbing this down

Please allow me to do an extreme summary of Goldwater's case.

Let me know if I've got this right; Goldwater appears to have 3 issues to "sue" Glendale on concerning the Coyotes fiasco; they are:

1) Ownership of parking lot

2) Overpayment for purchase of parking lot (regardless who owns it)

3) Overpayment for 5 year arena management contract

Have I summarized Goldwater's case? And if so, would a direct hit on any one of those 3 points bring down this deal (assuming the threat of legal action doesn't kill it first)?

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

I can't wait until the next COG meeting.

I know there will probably be nothing regarding the Coyotes listed on the agenda, but given that there was some subtle bickering at the last meeting and since then Lieberman is come out criticizing this deal (and may have even contacted GWI), It'll be interesting to see how Scruggs responds.

 

[nickschultzfan]

If phoenix is a hockey market they will support whatever team is there.

Well, bringing in $15,000 in revenue per game on a team that costs $15,000 per game is better than bringing in $200,000 in revenue per game on a team that costs $300,000 per game.

 

[billycanuck]

What about moving the Phoenix Suns into Jobing.com Arena, put a ECHL/AHL franchise into the US Airways Center to share with the WNBA and AFL franchise already in there.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Please allow me to do an extreme summary of Goldwater's case.

Let me know if I've got this right; Goldwater appears to have 3 issues to "sue" Glendale on concerning the Coyotes fiasco; they are:

1) Ownership of parking lot

2) Overpayment for purchase of parking lot (regardless who owns it)

3) Overpayment for 5 year arena management contract

Have I summarized Goldwater's case? And if so, would a direct hit on any one of those 3 points bring down this deal (assuming the threat of legal action doesn't kill it first)?

Goldwater's case is that keeping the team in Glendale will cost the taxpayers money. Potentially a lot of money. And its the owner of a team, not the taxpayers who should bare that risk. And they are right.

The proposed "solution" is just another bailout to private citizens on the taxpayers dime.

The end.