Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks

[MAROONSRoad]

Main reason I'm honestly thinking that the Seattle news is all a smokescreen to try to get a few extra million out of the Quebecor guys.

It has to be a smokescreen because a move to Seattle would appear next to impossible to begin play in 7 or 8 months. A decision or backup plan on what to do with the Coyotes for next year has to be made now. I'm not talking about the public announcement; I'm talking about the decisions going on behind the scenes. If the NHL decides to take another $25 million and wait another year that could change things though.

 

[cbcwpg]

Thats my take on it. Artificial leverage to be used against PKP & Quebecor in order to squeeze as much out of the franchise as possible.

Squeeze away, just don't squeeze too, too much. The last thing the NHL wants is Quebec City, Kansas City, Seattle, and whomever else is looking at buying to walk away because the "moving" price for the team is also too high.

Then again, for Phoenix, the best thing that could happen would be to have no external buyers, so the NHL is forced to sell the team locally for what it is really worth. But I don't see that happening. IMO the next owner, price, and city has already been agreed to with handshakes all around.... just waiting to officially see what the CoG does re: $25M for another year.

 

[mikelvl]

Squeeze away, just don't squeeze too, too much. The last thing the NHL wants is Quebec City, Kansas City, Seattle, and whomever else is looking at buying to walk away because the "moving" price for the team is also too high.

Then again, for Phoenix, the best thing that could happen would be to have no external buyers, so the NHL is forced to sell the team locally for what it is really worth. But I don't see that happening. IMO the next owner, price, and city has already been agreed to with handshakes all around.... just waiting to officially see what the CoG does re: $25M for another year.

I'm not sure the price will ever be too high for Quebec, given the demand the area has for NHL to return. That being said, if Seattle had a building waiting right now, they would absolutely be at the top of the list. The NHL wants to go there, no doubt about it. They don't just throw out city names in conversation for no reason. That's why you don't really hear them say too much about Kansas City even with the arena ready. They're not thrilled about that market. They are very 'intrigued' with Seattle and its location.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Then theres the Glendale Arena Bondholders. Friends of friends of certain members of the NHL BOG's that reaches clear on through every level of the Republican Party to extremely powerful & influential individuals & lobbyists in DC's Georgetown, including members of the McCain & Bush families. AEG working in concert with Mubadala in the UAE. Arena & stadium projects, World Cups, Tennis & Golf Tournaments, Cricket & yes, Hockey. From Stockholme to Berlin, London to Abu Dhabi, Los Angeles to....



Boards completely clear of that nonsense far as I can see CF...

Where is your link to the list of the Glendale bondholders names to show this assertion?

 

[Killion]

It has to be a smokescreen... If the NHL decides to take another $25 million and wait another year that could change things though.

Absolutely. Logistical & executional nightmare to try & pull that off in Seattle over 4mnths and for what?. To play out of the Key or TacomaDome for 3-4yrs losing tens of millions while awaiting completion of a new building?. Unless this Hedge Fund guy Hansen & Levin (or Mystery Group 2) down there partner up with the franchise & building you could wind up a tenant without access to any number of revenue streams critical to survival what with the realities being what they are in todays NHL. Im totally supportive of the concept, love to see a team in Seattle and want to see it work. Under these conditions & circumstances with so many loose ends & question marks, not a chance. Absolutely premature, potentially disastrous.

As for the COG paying the league another $25M, its possible I suppose, however, Im thinking the markets spent. People just want closure one way or the other and they want it now. If a new owner was the recipient of the $25M (good luck with that) filling the sails with wind moving forward then sure, optimism would return albeit slowly. But another year in Phoenix under the foster care of the inflexible NHL?.

That's why you don't really hear them say too much about Kansas City even with the arena ready. They're not thrilled about that market. They are very 'intrigued' with Seattle and its location.

And with Mayor Sly James of KC not being amenable to playing the role of Subsidizer to the NHL (nor the NBA for that matter) that prop's in the garbage. Seattle had one false start (20yrs ago) when Expansion applications were being considered & accepted, a disappointment as that market along with Portland are indeed beyond intriguing. Wealthy populations, tons of corporate heft, hockey histories galore, natural rivalries north & south, sewing up the West Coast if done methodically & properly.

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

Squeeze away, just don't squeeze too, too much. The last thing the NHL wants is Quebec City, Kansas City, Seattle, and whomever else is looking at buying to walk away because the "moving" price for the team is also too high.

Then again, for Phoenix, the best thing that could happen would be to have no external buyers, so the NHL is forced to sell the team locally for what it is really worth. But I don't see that happening. IMO the next owner, price, and city has already been agreed to with handshakes all around.... just waiting to officially see what the CoG does re: $25M for another year.

I tend to doubt the NHL will overplay their hand, but it is possible. Historically the exclusivity of getting access to one of the major professional sports franchises has justified overpayment. Now with potential relo candidates in Long Island and possibly Florida, and little in the way of viable alternatives, QC may have some bargaining strength particularly with the clock approaching midnight in Phoenix. It would make for an interesting stalemate if there is a disagreement on price.

I strongly suspect that QC is already in for the $170m on a handshake deal. I wonder if the NHL will up the price if the losses this season exceed $25m.

 

[Wheathead]

I get the feeling the NHL is pressing to see if there is any legit interest in Seattle. I don't think it's any more than that, because QC is the only market where you can play in 6-7 months and make it work.

 

[Killion]

Where is your link to the list of the Glendale bondholders names to show this assertion?

Unbridled full-on Conspiracy Theory for which I make no apologies TommyHawk aka Tommy Lee Jones. Men in Black have diabolically hidden, scrubbed & erased every trace of substantive evidence. Sanitized the scene. Left no loose ends. Sentries keeping watch over the likes of me, with Plausible Deniability Experts shooting me full of holes everytime I go looking for proof. Questioning my sanity. Waving Committal Papers under my nose. Threats of Deportation... an unmarked grave out back of the job in the Sonoran Desert...

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Don't think that the Glendale City Council has the votes to approve an additional $25 million for the League unless Bettman's office guarantees that the Yotes will stay in the desert first, and don't think that the NHL is willing to keep the team in Glendale until they get public assistance first.

In other words, both sides may technically want it, but don't want to take the first step and risk being hung out to dry.

 

[cbcwpg]

Don't think that the Glendale City Council has the votes to approve an additional $25 million for the League unless Bettman's office guarantees that the Yotes will stay in the desert first, and don't think that the NHL is willing to keep the team in Glendale until they get public assistance first.

In other words, both sides may technically want it, but don't want to take the first step and risk being hung out to dry.

If you believe Phil Lieberman and if the question of another $25M for next season comes up in a vote...the votes are already in, and it will pass.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2317577

Lieberman noted the city is already carrying a total debt of $1.13-billion “and I’m not going to vote for millions and millions we would hand away on top of that.†But the councillor noted Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs wants to give the $25-million to the NHL and has three votes she can count on among the seven-member council so the payment will likely be made if Bettman decides to keep the team in Glendale for the 2012-13 season if he cannot sell it.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

If you believe Phil Lieberman and if the question of another $25M for next season comes up in a vote...the votes are already in, and it will pass.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2317577

Lieberman noted the city is already carrying a total debt of $1.13-billion “and I’m not going to vote for millions and millions we would hand away on top of that.†But the councillor noted Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs wants to give the $25-million to the NHL and has three votes she can count on among the seven-member council so the payment will likely be made if Bettman decides to keep the team in Glendale for the 2012-13 season if he cannot sell it.

Three among 7? Is she considered one of those 7? I can't remember. If so, if she has 3 and her that would give her a majority.

 

[cbcwpg]

Three among 7? Is she considered one of those 7? I can't remember. If so, if she has 3 and her that would give her a majority.

The Mayor is One of Seven. (Borg refererence ) So she just needs 3 other "friends" to vote with her.

 

[Whileee]

Unbridled full-on Conspiracy Theory for which I make no apologies TommyHawk aka Tommy Lee Jones. Men in Black have diabolically hidden, scrubbed & erased every trace of substantive evidence. Sanitized the scene. Left no loose ends. Sentries keeping watch over the likes of me, with Plausible Deniability Experts shooting me full of holes everytime I go looking for proof. Questioning my sanity. Waving Committal Papers under my nose. Threats of Deportation... an unmarked grave out back of the job in the Sonoran Desert...

But my question is how exactly does keeping the Coyotes in Glendale help the City of Glendale pay off their debt obligations?

 

[mzappa]

Glendale is absolutely insane if they give anymore money to saving this failing franchise. they are throwing bad money after bad (since there is no good money in the first place, given they are $1B+ in debt already).
can a municipality go into receivership?

If you believe Phil Lieberman and if the question of another $25M for next season comes up in a vote...the votes are already in, and it will pass.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2317577

Lieberman noted the city is already carrying a total debt of $1.13-billion “and I’m not going to vote for millions and millions we would hand away on top of that.†But the councillor noted Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs wants to give the $25-million to the NHL and has three votes she can count on among the seven-member council so the payment will likely be made if Bettman decides to keep the team in Glendale for the 2012-13 season if he cannot sell it.

 

[Brodie]

how does a municipality that small rack up a billion in debt? It boggles the mind.

 

[EvilCoop]

how does a municipality that small rack up a billion in debt? It boggles the mind.

when old people think taxes are socialism, yet need public services...

 

[Roughneck]

But my question is how exactly does keeping the Coyotes in Glendale help the City of Glendale pay off their debt obligations?

Because by paying somebody $25M to use the arena they get a couple million for rent in return.

Duh!

 

[MoreOrr]

If you believe Phil Lieberman and if the question of another $25M for next season comes up in a vote...the votes are already in, and it will pass.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2317577

Lieberman noted the city is already carrying a total debt of $1.13-billion “and I’m not going to vote for millions and millions we would hand away on top of that.” But the councillor noted Glendale Mayor Elaine Scruggs wants to give the $25-million to the NHL and has three votes she can count on among the seven-member council so the payment will likely be made if Bettman decides to keep the team in Glendale for the 2012-13 season if he cannot sell it.

Seriously, what's the end game here? Is there the idea that the longer the Coyotes are kept in Arizona, the lower their value will go, and eventually someone legitimate will step up to buy the team and keep it there because the price is cheap enough?

Otherwise,... ?? Has the fanbase actually been growing these past couple of years? Is there hope of a significant turnaround there that could attract more buyers?

What's the end game not only for the city but for the League?

 

[Killion]

But my question is how exactly does keeping the Coyotes in Glendale help the City of Glendale pay off their debt obligations?

Because by paying somebody $25M to use the arena they get a couple million for rent in return....Duh!

Obviously, the only way its going to work for Glendale is sans' any form of direct
or in-direct subsidies, overly generous AM fee's, whatever. And so here we are.

 

[Killion]

Seriously, what's the end game here? Is there the idea that the longer the Coyotes are kept in Arizona, the lower their value will go, and eventually someone legitimate will step up to buy the team and keep it there because the price is cheap enough?

Otherwise,... ?? Has the fanbase actually been growing these past couple of years? Is there hope of a significant turnaround there that could attract more buyers?

What's the end game not only for the city but for the League?

Its just a Corker. The longer the Coyotes stay put under league ownership, the lower their value but the higher the price becomes, so no, no one legitimates' going to make an offer absent massive subsidies in order to meet the NHL's asking price.

Attendance has apparently improved somewhat, gone are the days of massive ticket giveaways & comps, the bottom-line better than it was under Moyes reign, but its just gotten so depressing, quite possibly so far beyond resurrection as to be an impossible task.

End game for the city is to try & replicate KC's model in attracting consumer/trade shows, concerts & events. For the NHL, to recoup their investments in the franchise (and then some if possible) in a relo sale.

 

[Matrix78]

Seriously, what's the end game here? Is there the idea that the longer the Coyotes are kept in Arizona, the lower their value will go, and eventually someone legitimate will step up to buy the team and keep it there because the price is cheap enough?

In fact, it's the opposite
25M isn't enough to cover all the losses, year after year...

The NHL don't want to lose money, they want it back.

So the longer the Coyotes are kept in Arizona, the lower their value will go down, and, at the opposite, more money the NHL will want from a potential owner.
It is why a relocation becomes more and more likely. I don't know what the CoG is thinking...

 

[MaskedSonja]

Curious, how many of Scruggs and her three "Friends" are up for re-election this year? I would think that a possible opponent for one or more of those seats, upon finding she is going to give another 25 million, would have this front and center among the electorate for upcoming election.

 

[gstommylee]

Curious, how many of Scruggs and her three "Friends" are up for re-election this year? I would think that a possible opponent for one or more of those seats, upon finding she is going to give another 25 million, would have this front and center among the electorate for upcoming election.

Good question. 25m is a lot to be giving up.

 

[Whileee]

Curious, how many of Scruggs and her three "Friends" are up for re-election this year? I would think that a possible opponent for one or more of those seats, upon finding she is going to give another 25 million, would have this front and center among the electorate for upcoming election.

Good question. 25m is a lot to be giving up.

It will have been $75 million in total. That could have actually gone some way towards paying of the arena debt, come to think of it. But I seriously wonder if the general public in Glendale even pays any attention to what city council is doing on the Coyotes file.

 

[Killion]

Curious, how many of Scruggs and her three "Friends" are up for re-election this year? I would think that a possible opponent for one or more of those seats, upon finding she is going to give another 25 million, would have this front and center among the electorate for upcoming election.

It wasnt much of an issue in past years by-elections but ya, it could certainly become one leading up to this Augusts'. Thing is, either the Mayor carrys' the day along with her like minded colleagues in awarding the NHL yet another $25M in May (if in fact the league decides to hang-tight in Glendale) and just lets the chips fall where they may, possibly not even standing for re-election or if so, justifying it with the arguments theyve been making since Moyes declared BK. Scruggs hasnt declared her candidacy yet, nor have I read anything by any challengers with the exception of a guy who plans to run against Lieberman in the Cactus District for Council. His comments on the issues were actually pretty well thought out, open minded & flexible, reasonable. Wasnt demanding Phil or Mayor Scruggs be pilloried, looking for solutions.