Phoenix XLII: The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe & Everything

[Mungman]

I mentioned Mayor Scruggs comments on Camelback up page in my reply to your post, so here ya go CF...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/.../20120104glendale-looks-restructure-debt.html



.

From the article:

"The debt will stay the same," Finance Director Diane Goke said. "We would pay the same amount of money off but the principle payment in the outer years would be larger than the payments now."

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/community/...ale-looks-restructure-debt.html#ixzz1lBcbFeHf

So, it looks like they're robbing Peter (future councils) to pay Paul less now. Pathetic, really pathetic, it's looking more and more like a house of cards that's ready to collapse at the slightest breeze.

 

[kihekah19*]

From the article:



So, it looks like they're robbing Peter (future councils) to pay Paul less now. Pathetic, really pathetic, it's looking more and more like a house of cards that's ready to collapse at the slightest breeze.

Oh no the Cards play in the big spaceship to the south of the arena doncha know? And ah, it's well constructed.... I toured it during construction.

Anyhow, desperate times.....

 

[Killion]

Thanks for the link. Not exactly what I was saying about the $25MM, but hey, it's in the ballpark. And it gave the K19 a chance to be snarky. So it's a win for all!

K-19; The Widowmaker. Nice handle. So your messing with a Coyote Trickster AND a Widowmaker?!. Happy to send you some garlic for your doors & windows, recommend the names of a couple of Shamans' who can provide some protection with Dreamweavers & Sacred Stones for the garden, Radiation Proof Loungewear for when your hangin out around the pool. Nothing guaranteed of course...

I would have done it, but lack the computer savy.

Just tell them your too damn lazy to bother. I do it all the time... and if they press? Just make the link up out of thin air & quote it even more extensively & vociferously than before you were ax'd to provide proof.

 

[CasualFan]

I do apologize if I've somehow misinterpreted your....

But that's really all it is. I was talking with Scott and you made a mistake and thought that I was disrespecting the Coyotes or exaggerating negatives about them, so you jumped in with the "chip on the shoulder" Phoenix fan thing.

Except, I wasn't trashing the Coyotes. And I don't have any agenda to exaggerate things. I actually did have access to real, legitimate data on the situation. I know right? What were the odds that someone on the internet actually researched something and knew what they were talking about? So, no worries about all those "it's BS" stuff. I don't blame you for being skeptical.

But this Business of Hockey forum has many contributors who bring a lot of knowledge and insight into a wide variety of business areas. They share it in an unbiased and informative way. It's a great open source for learning and analysis. I should stop messing that up by playing around with this. I should also get further away from the infraction line. So, that's a wrap.

 

[davemac1313]

Tortious interference!

aww..forgot that gem

 

[Tommy Hawk]

So what you're saying is you saw I'm currently a Phoenix resident and you're sure you know where I stand and haven't read a word I've written?

You posted

Who's to say what will happen when push really comes to shove.... lowering the price (discreetly is fine) is about our only hope right now.

and I responded that if that is about your only hope, you are screwed based upon the history of bettman's statements, including his most recent one where no one has had an issue with the asking price, which explains why so many people are lined up to buy the team, it is such a good value!!

So, please do not try to bait me like you are doing with CF. I predicted last year when everyone was talking about the great credit rating of CoG that they were heading toward a downgrade and worst. The drop in their rating starts to preclude certain funds and various regulated companies from purchasing those bonds.

I mentioned Mayor Scruggs comments on Camelback up page in my reply to your post, so here ya go CF...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/.../20120104glendale-looks-restructure-debt.html

.

From the article:

So, it looks like they're robbing Peter (future councils) to pay Paul less now. Pathetic, really pathetic, it's looking more and more like a house of cards that's ready to collapse at the slightest breeze.

Actually, isn't this the debt issuance that they just had to peel back from? They were going to issue something like 70 mil in new debt but because of the downgrade and watch they change the amount to only something like 8 mil because there was no interest in buying their bonds? Those quotes on restructuring were almost a month ago.

 

[Killion]

Actually, isn't this the debt issuance that they just had to peel back from?...

Ya, and the articles from January 6th. I pulled it as it contained the quote from Mayor Scruggs' voicing her concerns about Camelback specifically, a poster requesting verification & clarification on the issue...

 

[RowdyMcPfeifer]

Phoenix XLIII: Recession Bowl Version 2.0

 

[Fugu]

How to bake cupcakes in less than two weeks

this has to be a thread title at some point

I think I found it.

 

[Killion]

Someone knows how to seamlessly compile the funnys'...

which have mysteriously disappeared... oh well, carry on....

 

[Tommy Hawk]

How to bake cupcakes in less than two weeks

How about a quote from Courtney love? "When I was on crack I could do math really really well. I became a ********** whiz at calculus" http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/entertainment-eonline/20120202/b290905/


Or "this cupcakes has been baking for two weeks and it will be done imminently"

Ya, and the articles from January 6th. I pulled it as it contained the quote from Mayor Scruggs' voicing her concerns about Camelback specifically, a poster requesting verification & clarification on the issue...

I know and I thank you for the link for the umpteenth time but I wanted to confirm that what they were talking about back then is what just went south in a hurry.

 

[Whileee]

Thing is Whilee. Whatever happens now, the NHL or its owners will never get public money for the any stadium issues again. They have bankrupted a city of 300k for all intents and purposes. This is poor planning and PR black eye.

Wait a minute... you want me to believe that we'll never see another group of greedy businessmen like Ellman et al. pulling a fast one on gullible and grandiose city councilors. That seems highly unlikely, and rather a depressing prospect considering the entertainment delivered by Scruggs, Lieberman and company.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Wait a minute... you want me to believe that we'll never see another group of greedy businessmen like Ellman et al. pulling a fast one on gullible and grandiose city councilors. That seems highly unlikely, and rather a depressing prospect considering the entertainment delivered by Scruggs, Lieberman and company.

Well not on Glendale, I can tell you that.

Too many american cities have this idea that pro sports makes you big time. It takes more than that.

 

[Killion]

Well not on Glendale, I can tell you that...Too many american cities have this idea that pro sports makes you big time. It takes more than that.

Gotta call you on that comment MM, as it infers that some of our American Cousins have visions of grandeur & pretensions beyond their reach. In fact the entire philosophy behind the public financing of stadiums, arenas, cultural facilities and the like has everything to do do with spurring economic growth & development, generating taxes, improving the quality of life for its citizenry.

I can appreciate why you (and others) would have a cynical attitude about the matter when we witness the sort of thing that happens in Glendale. Watching Rogers buy the SkyDome for pennies on the dollar. A 40yr debt in Montreal paying off the Big 'O'. Vancouver stuck with the tab on a half a billion dollar Athletes Village etc etc etc.

Unfortunately, whenever government does get involved in private industry or decides to micromanage any portion of it, pretty much a guarantee that whatever their plans, its going to turn out badly. Hamilton with Copps, Edmonton & Northlands arena authorities a couple of Canadian examples. Hardly unique to the US, indeed, happens all over Europe & the UK as well, in some cases so far beyond the twist with in-camera/executive sessions to cover their ***** & secret deals that all eventually see the light of day anyway as to be beyond laughable... and people being people, of course developers & franchisee', leagues, major retailers, manufacturers, you name it will try & take advantage of it. Thats life. Everywhere.

 

[matCH penalty]

Gotta call you on that comment MM, as it infers that some of our American Cousins have visions of grandeur & pretensions beyond their reach.

The entire philosophy behind the public financing of stadiums, arenas, cultural facilities and the like has everything to do do with spurring economic growth & development, generating taxes, improving the quality of life for its citizenry.

These statements aren't mutually exclusive, K. It is possible for gigantic mistakes like Jobing.com arena to be both well-intentioned and hilariously poorly conceived. Sure, it's not exclusive to America. But in the context of the business of hockey in 2012, it's pretty out front.

 

[Killion]

These statements aren't mutually exclusive, K. It is possible for gigantic mistakes like Jobing.com arena to be both well-intentioned and hilariously poorly conceived. Sure, it's not exclusive to America. But in the context of the business of hockey in 2012, it's pretty out front.

Sure, true enough. Theres no question a lot of these developments are ego driven by politicians (Drapeau for eg.) & franchise owners, developers and promoters in building monuments to themselves. When the economies flush & optimism reigns, most people are too busy to pay attention or get swept up in the enthusiasm. Certainly that was the case in Montreal on the heels of the hugely successful Expo 67 in running full speed at the 76 Olympics.

When the economy tanks, as was the case in Phoenix followed by Moyes' BK & Balsillies hostile relocation attempt everythings questioned & dissected. Formerly intelligent & reasoned decisions seeming in hindsight pretty much nutz. The damage caused to Phoenix by the lockout in 04 when the building was about to open was serious, losing their momentum. Then the sub-prime housing crash, Ellman running out of money & credit, Moyes, Gretzky and his former Agent in over their heads with everyone apparently getting paid 2-3-8X's what their peers elsewhere were receiving, on & on we go.

Montreal got stuck with the Big 'O' , promises made by then Mayor Drapeau that it'd all be paid off in jig time with the Expos', Pink Floyd Concerts, the French Air Force Ski Shows & the like. Didnt work out that way. Not only did Montreal lose its MLB franchise, the city only recently retired its crushing debt on the stadium & to make matters worse, lost the Expos', while its bridges collapsed, major arterys & roadways requiring a 4 wheeler to negotiate. Who knew in the 70's that building the Summer Games infrastructure & Olympic Stadium would create a bill that mortgaged the cities future detrimentally?. Optimism reigned supreme. Montreal Canadas' jewel city.

I really dont think Glendale Arena / Westgate was an ill conceived project, very very badly executed, but the vision?. That was good, clear. I have a great deal of sympathy for Glendale, despite its foibles, and I really do think it behooves the NHL to step up to the plate here & facilitate a sale, drop the price, get er' done...

 

[Roughneck]

I really dont think Glendale Arena / Westgate was an ill conceived project, very very badly executed, but the vision?. That was good, clear.

Just like the Big O and the Vancouver Olympic Village...

Their eyes were bigger than their stomachs and proper scrutiny wasn't done. I don't have much sympathy.

 

[kihekah19*]

So, please do not try to bait me like you are doing with CF. I predicted last year when everyone was talking about the great credit rating of CoG that they were heading toward a downgrade and worst. The drop in their rating starts to preclude certain funds and various regulated companies from purchasing those bonds.
.

Actually, I don't try to bait anyone... just point things out and try to get folks to think... no easy task (the thinking part). Your self promoted vision is duly noted and impressive.

Relax any friend of a labrador is okay by me.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Actually, I don't try to bait anyone... just point things out and try to get folks to think... no easy task (the thinking part). Your self promoted vision is duly noted and impressive.

Relax any friend of a labrador is okay by me.

Considering that there is a new sheriff in town re the UoP arena management, I wonder how the foreclosure of Westgate will impact their designs? I would also think that if CoG was smart (that's debatable) they would leverage the complex management being done next door and have one group manage both so that there is no conflict or competition and provides a bigger list of services that can be offered.

 

[kihekah19*]

The damage caused to Phoenix by the lockout in 04 when the building was about to open was serious, losing their momentum. ne...

Actually the arena opened before the lockout.... if I'm not mistaken it was a 1/2 season in Glendale, having opened in December 2003.


Link for the mistrusting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Coyotes

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Actually the arena opened before the lockout.... if I'm not mistaken it was a 1/2 season in Glendale, having opened in December 2003.


Link for the mistrusting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Coyotes

Which would explain why the most profitable year of jobing.com was the lockout year, that was when the building was all shiny and new. I knew there was something i was missing there

 

[kihekah19*]

I'm told XTRA Sports 910 AM, Phoenix Az. will have a guessed on the Bickley and M.J. show, who want to purchase the Coyotes this afternoon. You should be able to listen via the internets, if you're interested.

 

[kihekah19*]

Which would explain why the most profitable year of jobing.com was the lockout year, that was when the building was all shiny and new. I knew there was something i was missing there

Shiny new with a LOT of acts performing there.

 

[Killion]

Just like the Big O and the Vancouver Olympic Village...

Their eyes were bigger than their stomachs and proper scrutiny wasn't done. I don't have much sympathy.

Is that an Alberta colloquialism? We use "eyes" out here, in Ontario as well. Must have something to do with your guys ease of access to all the terrific home grown grain & grass fed beef. But I digress...

I respect your opinion & judgment in the matter, however, I consider them more victim, progenitors' of a long line & ancestry, much earlier precedences set in Arizona & elsewhere. When these sorts of P3's go awry usually predicated by a lack of due-dilly, miscreant developers & promoters, land holders, corrupt officials, economic downturns, its pretty hard not to want to hoist them up on their own petards in the village square & throw rotting vegetables at them.

No question the COG acted hastily, with a lot more hubris than was prudent, sold a bill of goods, but I dont detect any corruption with the elected officials. Incompetence yes, and as such, Im willing to cut them some slack. Indeed, their fear of breaching Constitutional requirements & covenants, the law of the land, was in full display from December 2010 through May 2011. Afraid to play hardball & dirty with the barking GWI.

But, BUT, within City Manager Ed Beasleys offices?. Tindall turning himself into a pretzel with triangulations & delays over the civil case pursuant to records disclosures?. One cant help but conclude that those offices have much to answer for & explain to their elected masters & the electorate. That however can wait. Short-term, a solution had better be found, decisions made.

 

[kdb209]

We are at 1000 posts, i can hardly contain my anticipation of what the next thread will be called!!!!

Phoenix XLIII: How to Bake Cupcakes in Less Than Two Weeks

It's there - just waiting for this thread to get Fugu-ed.