Phoenix XLII: The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe & Everything

[Fugu]

so will we get an answer before this thread closes?

Not looking likely. Didn't I flag someone with a great idea for a thread title? (Not the Super Bowl one. )

 

[Ludwig Fell Down]

Not looking likely. Didn't I flag someone with a great idea for a thread title? (Not the Super Bowl one. )

Probably III more threads until this is resolved.

 

[Killion]

Glendale ****ed this up and is in a financial road like orange county, ca and jefferson county, Alabama. Too much committed (now this isn't a sewage treatment operation, but still) and too much bleeding.

No question they failed in several areas, however I believe the original vision was sound & had it not been for A Series of Unfortunate Events they just may have pulled it off.

Central Falls RI, Harrisburg PA, Vallejo CA & about 40 other muni's have declared BK over the past decade, though in a lot of cases they were precipitated by some pretty serious corruption by either elected or unelected officials, as was the case you mention above in Jefferson County. A Public Works Commissioner Slammered for taking bribes; JP Morgan agreeing to pay the SEC over $700M for its role as "facilitator", floating (sorry for the imagery, but we are talking sewage) incentives to suppliers and vendors alike etc.

Hard to say how bad it might get in Glendale, but unless weve all missed something, there dont appear to be criminal charges pending anywhere and Moodys' downgrading last week was mid-range & far from the Armageddon prognosticated by many here & elsewhere. In a 2.9 Trillion Dollar municipal bond market, Glendales not even close to taking a Chapter 9 exit, but sure enough, theyve' filled their plates with a lot more than they can eat.

People continually refer to its population in being unable to provide the taxbase which is of course quite correct however, the whole idea here was that Westgate & the Arena was to be a destination, bringing in people by the tens of thousands & hence the tax revenues from out of area. Nothing wrong with that concept nor the idea of providing subsidies to the anchors provided the anchors can execute & deliver the goods, we dont have a sub-prime meltdown & full on recession.

 

[kdb209]

Glendale ****ed this up and is in a financial road like orange county, ca and jefferson county, Alabama.

I wouldn't conflate Glendale and Orange County.

Orange County's bankruptcy in 1994 was not the result of spending, public policy, or the regular actions of elected county officials. Instead, the County Treasurer, without the knowledge or consent of the County gov't, illegally invested several county funds in risky derivative investments which were wiped out when interest rates rose - leaving Orange County with no liquidity and no choice but to declare bankruptcy.

 

[Killion]

...a lot of cases they were precipitated by some pretty serious corruption by either elected or unelected... Jefferson County a Public Works Commissioner Slammered for taking bribes; JP Morgan agreeing to pay the SEC over $700M...

... the County Treasurer, without the knowledge or consent of the County gov't, illegally invested several county funds in risky derivative investments which were wiped out...

What did I say kdb?. Or did you put me on ignore?.

 

[Nordskull]

May I submit

Phoenix XLIII: Where no man have been before

or

Phoenix XLIII: The price is not an issue

 

[kdb209]

You forgot the lucrative parking fee rights!

Amen to that, but I forgot, who OWNS, OWNS, those rights???

Yes, yes he does.

Costello: And you know who owns the parking rights?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: Well then who owns the parking rights?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: I mean the fellow's name.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy with the parking rights.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The parking guy.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy ...
Abbott: Who owns the parking rights!
Costello: I'm asking YOU who owns the parking rights.
Abbott: That's the man's name.
Costello: That's who's name?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: Well go ahead and tell me.
Abbott: That's it.
Costello: That's who?
Abbott: Yes.
PAUSE
Costello: Look, you got someone with the parking rights?
Abbott: Certainly.
Costello: Who owns the rights?
Abbott: That's right.
Costello: When CoG pays $100M to buy the rights, who gets the money?
Abbott: Every dollar of it.
...

 

[CasualFan]

Hard to say how bad it might get in Glendale, but unless weve all missed something, there dont appear to be criminal charges pending anywhere and Moodys' downgrading last week was mid-range & far from the Armageddon prognosticated by many here & elsewhere.

The Jobing.com arena debt payments seem stable thanks to Northern Crossing and Westgate tax revenues. However, producing $25MM "arena management" payments while they city stares at over $450MM in unfunded debt obligations on the baseball complex seems like a more significant concern. Othmar's comments have helped me to better understand that the market response to Glendale's debt load is the key component to meeting demands from potential Coyotes owners. Concerns about any potential legal battler over the Gift Clause are likely well behind the reality that the city cannot facilitate a successful bond offering to begin with.

 

[cbcwpg]

May I submit

Phoenix XLIII: Where no man have been before

or

Phoenix XLIII: The price is not an issue

Phoenix XLIII: The Price is Right

 

[OthmarAmmann]

it's taken near 3 years to sort this mess in the Desert out, and the dog is still chasing its tail. {MODS TAKE NOTE of this for next thread title}

I second this self-nomination (once more, again)

I mean, if we're talking about CFDs, tax remittances of Westgate and North Whatever, cupcakes, bringing Hulzinger back in, I mean, seriously, the dog is totally still chasing its tail. The funny thing is, there's still "news" breaking on this story at the same time!

 

[Killion]

The Jobing.com arena debt payments seem stable thanks to Northern Crossing and Westgate tax revenues. However, producing $25MM "arena management" payments while they city stares at over $450MM in unfunded debt obligations on the baseball complex seems like a more significant concern. Othmar's comments have helped me to better understand that the market response to Glendale's debt load is the key component to meeting demands from potential Coyotes owners. Concerns about any potential legal battler over the Gift Clause are likely well behind the reality that the city cannot facilitate a successful bond offering to begin with.

Absolutely. Their stretched to the limit and as the Mayor acknowledged recently, her biggest concern (in addition to the Coyotes) is that Cactus League facility. Of course Jerry Reinsdorf as well is upset. What was promised failing to appear. Talk of the Grapefruit League. If Im not mistaken, the $25M comes from their Enterprise Account (or did?) & not General Revenues, and I also seem to re-call that it had app. $76M sitting in it as of June 2010, with nothing coming in to replenish the $25M paid out last year, the $25M that will be paid out this season. Where do the funds come from to pay unsecured debts on Camelback/Main Street & budget another $25M (12-13) for arena management, a figure pulled out of the air apparently by a Glendale staffer a few weeks ago?.

 

[Mungman]

Didn't the facility's most profitable year occur during the lockout?

That is my recollection from the many discussions of the topic.

Tortious interference!

WHERE! Ahhh that term brings back warm memories.....

 

[kihekah19*]

The Jobing.com arena debt payments seem stable thanks to Northern Crossing and Westgate tax revenues. However, producing $25MM "arena management" payments while they city stares at over $450MM in unfunded debt obligations on the baseball complex seems like a more significant concern. Othmar's comments have helped me to better understand that the market response to Glendale's debt load is the key component to meeting demands from potential Coyotes owners. Concerns about any potential legal battler over the Gift Clause are likely well behind the reality that the city cannot facilitate a successful bond offering to begin with.

The Mayor's already stated as much.... except for the Othmar part of course.

 

[kihekah19*]

Then you are without hope. Bettman guaranteed the owners when this thing started that they would not lose any money. Based upon the original purchase price, losses for 3 seasons, I estimate that they are now at about 195 million (25 mil loss first season, 35 mil loss second season and 40 mil 3rd season less the 50 mil from CoG) and that does not include the financing expenses. I think I may be off a bit on the second year losses but not sure. So, throw in another 23 mil for financing at 5% and you are now at 218 million.

Bettman also said none of the interested parties had an issue with the purchase price.




They had a playoff team for years and attendance kept dropping. They got a small boost with the new facility but it dropped off. Now they have a winning team, and still no one shows.

So what you're saying is you saw I'm currently a Phoenix resident and you're sure you know where I stand and haven't read a word I've written?

 

[OthmarAmmann]

The Jobing.com arena debt payments seem stable thanks to Northern Crossing and Westgate tax revenues. However, producing $25MM "arena management" payments while they city stares at over $450MM in unfunded debt obligations on the baseball complex seems like a more significant concern. Othmar's comments have helped me to better understand that the market response to Glendale's debt load is the key component to meeting demands from potential Coyotes owners. Concerns about any potential legal battler over the Gift Clause are likely well behind the reality that the city cannot facilitate a successful bond offering to begin with.

I must say that I've found your updates and explanations regarding the legal situation to be quite helpful. I find that the public records battle that the COG is waging to be quite emblematic of the manner in which they conduct themselves in all manner of business.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

The Mayor's already stated as much.... except for the Othmar part of course.

 

[kihekah19*]

Don't be sad othmar, your part was good too!

 

[CasualFan]

The Mayor's already stated as much.... except for the Othmar part of course.

Okay, then produce her quote and source it.

 

[kihekah19*]

Okay, then produce her quote and source it.

Relax, don't go getting yourself all worked up again. All you've got to do is search the forum and find it, as it was discussed ad nauseum.

 

[CasualFan]

Relax, don't go getting yourself all worked up again. All you've got to do is search the forum and find it, as it was discussed ad nauseum.

Oh, so you don't actually have a quote or a source. You're just doing some more talking

 

[kihekah19*]

Oh, so you don't actually have a quote or a source. You're just doing some more talking

You don't relax well do you? I just looked it up and found it in two different sources and if I can do it... well.

Seriously, why so combatant?

 

[Killion]

I mentioned Mayor Scruggs comments on Camelback up page in my reply to your post, so here ya go CF...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/.../20120104glendale-looks-restructure-debt.html



.

 

[CasualFan]

You don't relax well do you? I just looked it up and found it in two different sources and if I can do it... well.

Seriously, why so combatant?

I'm quite relaxed and I can't recall feeling combative. Perhaps you're misinterpreting it. No matter. You either have a quote, or you don't. Looks like you dont.

It's cool, a lot of people talk the talk without being able to back it up. It's really no big deal.

*Edit - Thanks for the link. Not exactly what I was saying about the $25MM, but hey, it's in the ballpark. And it gave the K19 a chance to be snarky. So it's a win for all!

 

[kihekah19*]

here ya go CF...

http://www.azcentral.com/community/.../20120104glendale-looks-restructure-debt.html



.

I would have done it, but lack the computer savy.

 

[kihekah19*]

I'm quite relaxed and I can't recall feeling combative. Perhaps you're misinterpreting it. No matter. You either have a quote, or you don't. Looks like you dont.

It's cool, a lot of people talk the talk without being able to back it up. It's really no big deal.

*Edit - Thanks for the link. Not exactly what I was saying about the $25MM, but hey, it's in the ballpark. And it gave the K19 a chance to be snarky. So it's a win for all!

I do apologize if I've somehow misinterpreted your.... I don't know exactly what, with being combative.