Phoenix LXXI: Daydream Belever

Status
Not open for further replies.

MoreOrr

B4
Jun 20, 2006
24,433
451
Mexico
Why does megabucks from western Canada want to buy the Coyotes NOW? Why now?

Didn't this drama also play out near the very end of the Thrashers fiasco?

I would assume that if it's a repeat performance that this time the preparation might be better; though this is Coyotes related, so nothing ordinary should be expected.

So what you are saying is Seattle could get backstabbed ?

Not at all. This could prime Seattle even more, but for the expansion option that it more likely is.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,075
33,132
We don't know what kind of ideological stand Weiers is going to make yet. It could be that he goes full politician, slashes $50 million and calls it a win. Or he could go full Pejorative Slur, not give a dime and thus seal the fate of the Coyotes. Too early to call. He seems awfully confident for a guy who just potentially passed a death sentence to a local sports team. Declarations that he is comfortable with a new bidder and thinks the team can stay are the last thing I'd expect out of him, but here we are.

I can see the current city council slashing the AMF to $10-11 million a year, but how does a worse deal attract new investors? Are we to believe that there have been these other big-moneyed investors sitting on the sidelines for the past 18 months waiting for Jamison's bid to implode so that they can come in on a worse lease arrangement?

I believe that if there really were serious interested parties, they would have showed up before Jamison's deal cratered and approached the NHL and the COG to tell them that they would be happy to jump in and take it, instead of letting it die with a new council configuration in place.
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,075
33,132
Didn't this drama also play out near the very end of the Thrashers fiasco?

I would assume that if it's a repeat performance that this time the preparation might be better; though this is Coyotes related, so nothing ordinary should be expected.



Not at all. This could prime Seattle even more, but for the expansion option that it more likely is.

We heard no end of these "mystery" buyers in the Thrashers situation. I hope the Coyotes' fans either get a new owner right away, or that they are spared the NHL's charade if the team is going to relocate so that they can choose their own way to deal with that.
 

Nordskull

WAITING FOR NORDS
Sep 29, 2011
2,268
44
Saguenay, Qc
So talking about this Calgary native billionaire.

How one can explain that he did not wanted a $308M gift ?

I know this saga has been shady at moments, but the last few hours developments give a whole new sense to shady.



The first part is true. But for the 2nd part, you will agree that the AMF cannot be nicest than the one that was still valid 24 hours ago. So like RT said, why now and not one day earlier ?


Because he does not want to be tied with a 20 years clause, making easier a resale to Sea or whoever with big profits in 4 or 5 years.

Pro sports is a matter of buying and selling sports franchise to make money.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,941
14,679
PHX
I can see the current city council slashing the AMF to $10-11 million a year, but how does a worse deal attract new investors?

Shorter term with an out clause, probably. I'd expect nothing more than 5 years before the team can skip town. That's a nice security blanket for a prospective owner. You're going to get your purchase price back, minimum, if the team moves.

Are we to believe that there have been these other big-moneyed investors sitting on the sidelines for the past 18 months waiting for Jamison's bid to implode so that they can come in on a worse lease arrangement?

Depends on the NHL's agenda. They may not want the team strapped down there for 20 years.

I believe that if there really were serious interested parties, they would have showed up before Jamison's deal cratered and approached the NHL and the COG to tell them that they would be happy to jump in and take it, instead of letting it die with a new council configuration in place.

Again, the deal was ONLY for JIG. It was not an open invitation for anyone to come play ball. Word is that a big time investor came into the picture late for Jamison and wanted a controlling interest, but he wouldn't yield. So the investor pulled out and sunk the deal. Is that investor Bill Gallacher? We will probably find out in the next few days.
 

madhi19

Just the tip!
Jun 2, 2012
4,396
252
Cold and Dark place!
twitter.com
We heard no end of these "mystery" buyers in the Thrashers situation. I hope the Coyotes' fans either get a new owner right away, or that they are spared the NHL's charade if the team is going to relocate so that they can choose their own way to deal with that.

Just to prevent a lame duck season it all theatre for now on some will even say it always was anyway. Everybody will pretend to do something and some peoples will even pretend to believe them.
 

GF

Registered User
Nov 4, 2012
547
0
I keep reading that, it's Glendale and anything can happen.

But one thing is for sure, millionaires are not in the business of losing money. They do lose money, of course, sometimes. But usually it is because they beleve they can do things differently, they take chances. In this case, it's a sure way to lose money. I don't see this happening. Especially not now that the 300m$ gift from CoG is off the table. No way. Stop this cartoon.
 

Hawker14

Registered User
Oct 27, 2004
3,084
0
i) Investor X buys $170m bond offering from COG at 7% per year interest (~$12m/yr) => using same parking fee shenanigans as before ==> Lynch & Hocking will testify it's even-Steven!

ii) COG submits proceeds of bond offering to NHL to cover Investor X's Coyote purchase.

iii) COG and Investor X agree to 20 year $300m lease.

Voila.

Get creative Mr. Skeete !!
 

Whileee

Registered User
May 29, 2010
46,075
33,132
Shorter term with an out clause, probably. I'd expect nothing more than 5 years before the team can skip town. That's a nice security blanket for a prospective owner. You're going to get your purchase price back, minimum, if the team moves.



Depends on the NHL's agenda. They may not want the team strapped down there for 20 years.



Again, the deal was ONLY for JIG. It was not an open invitation for anyone to come play ball. Word is that a big time investor came into the picture late for Jamison and wanted a controlling interest, but he wouldn't yield. So the investor pulled out and sunk the deal. Is that investor Bill Gallacher? We will probably find out in the next few days.

A shorter deal with an out clause and a substantially lower AMF seems reasonable to try to attract a new owner. I'm not sure if the COG would go for it, but it's probably worth a try.

Why on earth would the previous deal only be extended to Jamison??? If I were the COG, I would have put that deal on the table for the best bidder, instead of mucking around with another potential owner without the finances. They were duped once before by such a bid (IEH). If it turns out that they had held that deal exclusively for Jamison, then he really is a bit of a villain by blocking another more viable candidate.
 

rt

The Kinder, Gentler Version
May 13, 2004
97,786
47,138
A Rockwellian Pleasantville
Perhaps the billion dollar Canadian was not entertained as option number one over Jamison because he will only accept a lease agreement of five years, rather than the twenty?

I really don't buy it, but just for arguments sake. Maybe now the nhl and cog are in "we will take what we can get" mode? They'd prefer five year for less than 10m per in AMF to 20years with 15m+ per?

Again, I'm sure it's just a smokescreen. I'm just curious.
 

XX

Waiting for Ishbia
Dec 10, 2002
54,941
14,679
PHX
If it turns out that they had held that deal exclusively for Jamison, then he really is a bit of a villain by blocking another more viable candidate.

More a function of how cities operate than anything else. You have to go through the whole dog and pony show, with the public commentary and votes. Your point would be valid if it was, for whatever reason, two private entities. But it wasn't, and everything must be a matter of public record. We will know very fast if this is another sham.
 

GF

Registered User
Nov 4, 2012
547
0
One final thought, this can't last for too long either, because if/when the franchise moves, the new owner needs to organize a million things before the next season.

In the case of QC it means finishing the final touch to make the Colisee NHL ready (a lot was made in the last years). Seatle it's even worst from what I heard as, the NHL doesn't know yet if the city is gonna land the NBA, they don't have a buyer yet (afaik) and from what I read, their venue is totally not NHL ready.

You can't organize all that in a couple weeks. Winnipeg was definately game ready and still needed a few months.

The comedy can't last for long because they need to have the next owner ready and that do takes some time.
 

JB52

Registered User
Apr 6, 2012
514
2
Quebec City
Because he does not want to be tied with a 20 years clause, making easier a resale to Sea or whoever with big profits in 4 or 5 years.

Pro sports is a matter of buying and selling sports franchise to make money.

Yeah, sure, you buy the team 170 millions now, you lose 30 millions every year for the next five years and than you sell it back 300 millions. That should makes you a generous profit of -20 millions.
 

Ugmo

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
12,300
0
I realize I can get in really big trouble for trying to be sensible on the internet, but lets approach this pragmatically shall we?

Should have kept lurking. The condescending approach doesn't become you.
 

Undertakerqc

Registered User
Dec 24, 2011
3,282
0
For over four years I've been lurking on these boards, content to watch the antics of Killion et al. from the shadows (and what deep dark shadows they are).

With the resolution of this saga appearing to be upon us (perhaps in weeks not months :sarcasm:) I find myself compelled to speak.

Specifically, I want to weigh in on the Seattle vs. Quebec debate that has erupted on this board since it became apparent that the Coyotes have most likely reached the end or their long desert road. While I admit I haven't had a chance to read over the backlog of posts from the past 8 hours in detail (what with sleeping and all), the overall debate seems to boil down to "No, I am the prettiest girl at the dance!"

I realize I can get in really big trouble for trying to be sensible on the internet, but lets approach this pragmatically shall we?

Contrary to partisans on both sides of the debate, I believe both markets are strong...or at the very least represent a substantial improvement over Phoenix (granted we are talking about a very low bar). Both cities have new facilities planned and both have a history of supporting hockey going back almost a century. I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that both cities will have NHL teams by the end of this decade. But as far as the "Coyotes Sweepstake" is concerned all signs seem to point to one location...Seattle.

Even as I type this I can feel the hackles rising on my Quebecois cousins. Allow me to preempt your anger. Quebec City is an excellent market. You have the better temporary facility, you have an ownership group that is ready and waiting, and you have a new arena that is already under construction. Unlike Seattle you also have a history with the NHL and a demonstrated record of support and no one (with the exception of howlinghockey...who seems to be fond of "wall candy") doubts the ability for a returned Nordiques to have success equal to that of Jets 2.0.

But in spite of all these things I still consider Seattle the front runner. It ultimately boils down to two things: money and vanity. While the "national" in the NHL originally referred to the nation of Canada, the present day NHL is an American league with a large Canadian presence. To reinforce this point we need only look at where the league has chosen to hang its proverbial hat (I'll give you a hint...its not Toronto). By being based in NYC (in midtown Manhattan no less) the NHL places itself (geographically if not financially) in the same echelon as the NFL, NBA, and MLB. This is key to understanding all other actions on the part of the league.

Simply put, the NHL is the awkward kid desperately seeking the acceptance of the popular crowd. You need only look at the lucrative sponsorships and TV contracts held by the NFL to see what the NHL is aspiring to. Who wouldn't want to be a secular religion with a license to print money? Sure the NHL is arguably the NFL of Canada (i.e. the league playing the most popular sport in the land at its highest level), but as far as American media, corporations, and consumers are concerned the NHL is the smallest of the "big four" and marginally higher profile than soccer. While I'm sure the NHL values its Canadian sponsorships and TV contracts they pale in comparison to money changing hands amongst their "peers". After all, would you rather have 80% of $100 or 25% of $1000?

Some years ago there was a great article that talked about how the NHL is the RC Cola of professional sports. I think its just as true now as it was then. Ultimately the NHL is the smallest player in a highly competitive market selling a product that, while immensely popular in some circles, is ultimately an after thought to most consumers. The problem the NHL is facing is that rather than accepting its status and building off of that identify, the league has instead spent the past 20+ years trying to be the next the NFL.

Which brings us to Seattle. Consider for a moment the situation. You are GB. You are small. You are funny looking. You are the head of a league that could be seen as equally small and funny looking. In the last two years you have had a labor dispute, lost half a season, and seen a team move from a major American media hub to a midwestern Canadian city with a fraction of the (American) corporate and media exposure. Its the pro sports equivalent of having to move back in with your parents. Now imagine having to do it again. Giving up on yet another high profile market (even if the team in question doesn't have a particularly high profile in that market) and returning to another "fringe" market. Sure its a great arrangement, and it makes a lot of financial sense…but its not going to impress anyone (and it certainly won't get you in bed with that hot national TV contract).

So Seattle allows the NHL to get out of an ugly situation while still saving some face in the eyes of the broader corporate/sports community. True, its not as solid a market as Quebec City, it lacks an established ownership group and the new arena is still in the planning stages, but the market has supported hockey for close to a century (which is more than can be said for Phoenix) and its home to some very high profile corporations (Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks, etc.). There's absolutely more uncertainty with Seattle, and its entirely possible that the NHL will have no choice but to go with Quebec City, but if we could shoot up GB with a few mg of phenobarbotal I suspect he'd admit to Seattle being the NHL's first choice.

Well verse opinion but we will agree to disagree. Bettman wants to right the wrong of Quebec City of losing its team. Its a legacy thing for him.
 

dronald

Registered User
Mar 4, 2011
1,171
0
Hamilton, ON
Well verse opinion but we will agree to disagree. Bettman wants to right the wrong of Quebec City of losing its team. Its a legacy thing for him.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

What I do agree with is that QC is the most viable and available market.
 

Nordskull

WAITING FOR NORDS
Sep 29, 2011
2,268
44
Saguenay, Qc
Yeah, sure, you buy the team 170 millions now, you lose 30 millions every year for the next five years and than you sell it back 300 millions. That should makes you a generous profit of -20 millions.

Let's talk in 5 years if he does so.

You don't know what kind of arrangement he will make, ah no, sorry, order the city to give him.

Agreed this needs cash from city.

Don't you realize there are 3 places looking for a team now? He'll have one for sale.

Not saying this is true, I don't beleve ... the whole thing. I am replying to someone asking why he did not take the 308M gift. Its a possibility, not necesseraly a reality.
 

MoreOrr

B4
Jun 20, 2006
24,433
451
Mexico
Simple logic here,... Regardless if there is yet another potential bidder for the Coyotes, does anyone seriously think that anyone buying the Coyotes will end up keeping them in Glendale more than 3 years? I can't imagine now that any purchase doesn't have a relocation clause if the financial situation of the franchise doesn't seriously turn around (of course also that the buyer has shown a good faith effort to make it work). Whether it's in the next 2 to 3 weeks, 3 to 4 months, or 3 years, the Coyotes are almost 100% certain going to be gone from Phoenix (unless someone comes up with a miraculous fan development campaign).
 

Major4Boarding

Unfamiliar Moderator
Jan 30, 2009
5,431
2,438
South of Heaven
Why does megabucks from western Canada want to buy the Coyotes NOW? Why now?

Couple of reasons I suppose...

First - It was speculated (<--- link here) by Dave Pagnotta (TheFourthPeriod) awhile back the he was on the verge (there's that word again) of buying into the NJ Devils. However, since VBK rearranged his finances last month it appears the opportunity became stale. So if he was free from commitment in pursuing the Devils, if the speculation was true, then he plausibly could become a player in the Coyotes Saga. He also was thumping the tires hard for Dallas too. So the "where was he before" stuff... if he truly was occupied by his pursuit of the Devils, well that would explain it.

Two - That is what Private Equity Firms do. Buy into distressed companies (and in many cases, franchises) while at their lowest and by adding their stamp to it hold it and flip it, or outright hold on to it and add it as a piece via M&A.

Oh... and Craig Morgan, you may wanna ease back a wee bit on the copy and pasting when doing your write ups. Just a pet peeve of mine... "..bio from the Portland Winterhawks website says... " would have worked for me. "Laziness" aggravates me

From the article

According to his bio, Gallacher is the president of Avenir Capital Corporation, a private equity firm that invests in new and existing junior companies. An engineer by profession, Gallacher was an entrepreneur in the oil patch and brings experience in the financial markets and corporate structuring. Gallacher sits on the board of directors of Avenir Diversified Income Trust, Athabasca Oil Sands Corp., Black Diamond Income Fund, Maxim Power Corp., Mahalo Energy Ltd. and Great Plains Exploration.

He is also a lifelong hockey fan who spends most of his time in the Calgary area and owns season tickets for both the NHL’s Calgary Flames and the Western Hockey League’s Calgary Hitmen. Gallacher is also a part owner of the British Columbia Hockey League’s Nanaimo Clippers.

From the Portland Winterhawks site

Gallacher is the President of Avenir Capital Corporation, a private equity firm that invests in new and existing junior companies. An engineer by profession, Gallacher was an entrepreneur in the oil patch and brings experience in the financial markets and corporate structuring. Avenir Capital’s core holdings have been built on a business model that includes a solid management team, a strategic business plan and the capital to execute the plan. Currently Gallacher sits on the board of directors of Avenir Diversified Income Trust, Athabasca Oil Sands Corp., Black Diamond Income Fund, Maxim Power Corp., Mahalo Energy Ltd. and Great Plains Exploration.

Gallacher is a life-long hockey fan, and owns season tickets for both the NHL’s Calgary Flames and the WHL’s Calgary Hitmen. Gallacher is also a part owner of the BCHL’s Nanaimo Clippers.
 
Last edited:

dronald

Registered User
Mar 4, 2011
1,171
0
Hamilton, ON
Couple of reasons I suppose...

First - It was speculated (<--- link here) by Dave Pagnotta (TheFourthPeriod) awhile back the he was on the verge (there's that word again) of buying into the NJ Devils. However, since VBK rearranged his finances last month it appears the opportunity became stale. So if was free from commitment in pursuing the Devils, if the speculation was true, then he plausible could become a player in the Coyotes Saga. He also was thumping the tires hard for Dallas too. So the "where was he before" stuff... if he truly was occupied by his pursuit of the Devils, well that would explain it.

Two - That is what Private Equity Firms do. Buy into distressed companies (and in many cases, franchises) while at their lowest and by adding their stamp to it hold it and flip it, or outright hold on to it and add it as a piece via M&A.

Oh... and Craig Morgan, you may wanna ease back a wee bit on the copy and pasting when doing your write ups. Just a pet peeve of mine... "..bio from the Portland Winterhawks website says... " would have worked for me. "Laziness" aggravates me

From the article



From the Portland Winterhawks site

So... How long until somebody contacts this guy?
 

MaskedSonja

Registered User
Feb 3, 2007
6,548
89
Formerly Tinalera
I'm not sure I agree with this.

What I do agree with is that QC is the most viable and available market.

I don't about the legacy part, but to be fair I believe he has gone on record as saying that leaving QC "was a mistake" along with Winnipeg that he wanted to rectify (I think it was at a PC a couple of years ago), and I think he does indeed want to put a team back in QC.

Whether it's through relocation or through expansion years down the road who knows, but he has acknowledged that leaving was a mistake.
 

hkymnky

Registered User
Feb 17, 2010
139
0
Should have kept lurking. The condescending approach doesn't become you.

Not intended to be condescending...just trying to inject some humor. I'll be sure to use :sarcasm: next time.

Well verse opinion but we will agree to disagree. Bettman wants to right the wrong of Quebec City of losing its team. Its a legacy thing for him.

I admit I'm skeptical as to how much weight "writing wrongs" really has in this business. It makes for a good narrative, but it ultimately comes down to $$$.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

What I do agree with is that QC is the most viable and available market.

Contrary to what some of the folks on this board seem to be assuming, I also agree that QC is the most viable and available of the markets. I just don't believe that being the most viable translates to being the inevitable choice.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad