Phoenix LXII: Abandon Hope all Ye Who Enter Here

[Killion]

So... any chance the electorate will vote in favor of the sales tax increase?
Sales tax increases never lose on ballot initiatives..... right???

... I guess it depends on what the Candidates positions are on the matter, and how much of a "scare" they signal to the electorate. That without the tax increases, massive cuts to essential services, public safety, Police & Fire etc, saying little or nothing about Camelback, the Coyotes.

 

[King Woodballs]

So... Jamison hasn't bought the team yet?

 

[cheswick]

So... Jamison hasn't bought the team yet?

He's as good as bought it. He has all the mone ylined up and is just waiting on the city to sign the lease agreement. It'll close in a couple of weeks.

 

[ajmidd12]

From the LVI:s thread:

Absolutely brilliant!

Next thread title "Phoenix LXIII: This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"

He's as good as bought it. He has all the mone ylined up and is just waiting on the city to sign the lease agreement. It'll close in a couple of weeks.

 

[WinterEmpire]

Fast Forward to 2015:

He's as good as bought it. He has all the mone ylined up and is just waiting on the city to sign the lease agreement. It'll close in a couple of weeks.

 

[MaskedSonja]

He's as good as bought it. He has all the mone ylined up and is just waiting on the city to sign the lease agreement. It'll close in a couple of weeks.

Wait, wasn't that expression banned and infractible?

This whole saga just blows my mind.....

 

[powerstuck]

... ageism. Every older generation criticizes the younger generations tastes in music, from Sinatra to Elvis, the Stones & Beatles to Glam, Punk to New Wave, Grunge to Hip Hop, Rap, Techno etc etc etc. The younger the act & its audience, the more venomous the attacks. Youd' have thunk that as the NHL has been working with AEG ever since (and actually preceding the leagues purchase with Moyes/Ellman) they took over the building, they'd be booking a whole lot more acts, filling the empty dates, showing prospective buyers that combined with Concerts & Events, there might be some value to buying the team & managing the arena after all. You need only look at a Sunrise or Nashville, whereby the ancillary event bookings prop up the team's while they re-build, mitigating losses to a large extent, though obviously even that, substantial increases in non hockey bookings might not be enough in this particular case at this juncture to even make sense anymore, and certainly not at the price Glendales being asked to pay.

I am surprised and not at the same time that Killion knows so much about our compatriot JBeiber. Another evil canadian working against the Coyotes.

 

[kdb209]

Next thread title "Phoenix LXIII: This could be Heaven or this could be Hell"

And we're almost at - and I honestly never expected to get there:

"Will you still need me, will you still read me on thread LXIV?"

 

[Killion]

I am surprised and not at the same time that Killion knows so much about our compatriot JBeiber. Another evil canadian working against the Coyotes.

... ohhhh I keep my eyes on things powerstruck. Read Billboard daily. And btw, thats actually 2 more Canadians (Carly Rae Jepsen's from Mission BC) we've got planted in Joyce Clarks' frontyard. Made sure she got comp'd front row centre seats and a backstage pass for a meet n' greet, some Dr.Pepper & Cheezies. See, Im part of the Evil Canadian Conspiracy. Forcing ice hockey & bubblegum pop down the US of A's throats whether they like it or not. Beiber & Jepson just the latest in a long line that includes the likes of Mary Pickford, William Shatner & Jim Carrey, Pamela Andersen, Diana Krall, John Kay, Neil Young, Robbie Robertson, Paul Anka, Celine Dion & countless tens of dozens more... but hey, who's keeping score?

 

[theoriginal55]

To raise the price of a car sale, it would have to be less than $5,000. The COG already yielded to the car dealers by putting a cap on the tax increase. Any retail purchase of over $5,000 is taxed at the original rate of 9.5% not the new rate of 10.2%. By the way there are 7 cities in Maricopa county that have a heftier tax. Guadalupe leads the pack at 11.3%. Phoenix proper is at 9.3%.

Last updated August 1, 2012.
AZ State Sales Tax % County Sales Tax % City Sales Tax % Total Sales Tax %
Maricopa County
Apache Jun 6.6 0.7 2.20 9.5
Avondale 6.6 0.7 2.50 9.8
Buckeye 6.6 0.7 3.00 10.3
Carefree 6.6 0.7 3.00 10.3
Cave Crk 6.6 0.7 3.00 10.3
Chandler 6.6 0.7 1.50 8.8
El Mirage 6.6 0.7 3.00 10.3
FountainHl 6.6 0.7 2.60 9.9
Gila Bend 6.6 0.7 3.00 10.3
Gilbert 6.6 0.7 1.50 8.8
Glendale 6.6 0.7 2.90 10.2
Goodyear 6.6 0.7 2.50 9.8
Guadalupe 6.6 0.7 4.00 11.3
Litchfield 6.6 0.7 2.80 10.1
Mesa 6.6 0.7 1.75 9.05
ParadiseV 6.6 0.7 2.50 9.8
Peoria 6.6 0.7 1.80 9.1
Phoenix 6.6 0.7 2.00 9.3
Queen Crk 6.6 0.7 2.25 9.55
Scottsdale 6.6 0.7 1.65 8.95
Surprise 6.6 0.7 2.20 9.5
Tempe 6.6 0.7 2.00 9.3
Tolleson 6.6 0.7 2.50 9.8
Wickenbrg 6.6 0.7 2.20 9.5
Youngtwn 6.6 0.7 3.00 10.3

Pinal County
Apache Jnct6.6 1.1 2.20 9.9
Casa Grnde 6.6 1.1 1.80 9.5
Florence 6.6 1.1 2.00 9.7
Maricopa 6.6 1.1 2.00 9.7
Queen Crk 6.6 1.1 2.25 9.95

Gila County
Globe 6.6 1.1 2.00 9.7
Miami 6.6 1.1 2.50 10.2

 

[Killion]

To raise the price of a car sale, it would have to be less than $5,000. Any retail purchase of over $5,000 is taxed at the original rate of 9.5% not the new rate of 10.2%....

... yes I recall that, and so Im wondering what their worried about? That would only affect low-end used cars, and most major dealers dont even deal with inventory like that. If they take in a beater, they'll just flip it wholesale to wherever. However, as most cars are Leased rather than purchased, wouldnt the rate of 10.2% apply to your monthly? And even if it did, your talking maybe $12-$25 more per month depending on what your driving of course, hardly something that would stop you from buying/leasing in Glendale. Now, when it comes to appliances, home theatre & audio etc, thats not the greatest, but still not insurmountable one would think from the retailers perspective.

 

[King Woodballs]

He's as good as bought it. He has all the mone ylined up and is just waiting on the city to sign the lease agreement. It'll close in a couple of weeks.

 

[aqib]

... yes I recall that, and so Im wondering what their worried about? That would only affect low-end used cars, and most major dealers dont even deal with inventory like that. If they take in a beater, they'll just flip it wholesale to wherever. However, as most cars are Leased rather than purchased, wouldnt the rate of 10.2% apply to your monthly? And even if it did, your talking maybe $12-$25 more per month depending on what your driving of course, hardly something that would stop you from buying/leasing in Glendale. Now, when it comes to appliances, home theatre & audio etc, thats not the greatest, but still not insurmountable one would think from the retailers perspective.

Couple of things. Last time I bought a car in the US the sales tax was based on where you were titling the car. Otherwise everyone would fly to low tax places and turn car buying into a vacation.

As for buying vs leasing it depends on the part of the country. I am not sure how it is in AZ. If you live in the burbs around NYC, take the train to work, and only drive to and from the train station or the grocery store you lease. If you live in the midwest where you drive everywhere you buy.

Lastly, keep one thing in mind when it comes to taxes in the US, people in the US are irrational about them. There was an argument in the Cleveland area about a sales tax hike to pay for a new convention center and a medical mart development it was a quarter of a percent and one of the guys I knew was like "everytime I have a big ticket purchase I drive to Avon (in the next county 25 miles each way) like when I bought a car battery" Now with the increase it was a half percent difference. I was like "you drive 50 miles round trip to save 50 cents?"

 

[metalfoot]

40 days till election day, Then inauguration day.

Will be interesting

Just got an image of a random HFBoards poster walking up and down through the streets of Glendale holding a sign which says "Yet 40 Days And The Yotes Are Overthrown"...

 

[Govment Cheese]

The thread title captures my sentiments about this sad drama perfectly. Hard to stay engaged, let alone interested in this affair as it drags out interminably.

Dr. Klahn: Just lost drunken men who don't know where they are and no longer care.
Prisoner #1: Where are we?
Prisoner #2: I don't care!
Loo: And these?
Dr. Klahn: These are lost drunken men who don't know where they are, but do care! And these are men who know where they are and care, but don't drink.
Prisoner #3: Wait a minute. I don't know who I am!
Prisoner #4: Yeah. and I don't drink.
Dr. Klahn: Guards!
[moves prisoners]
Dr. Klahn: Do you care?
Prisoner #5: No.
Dr. Klahn: Put this man in cell #1, and give him a drink.

 

[mzappa]

Nice use of Dante's Inferno for the new thread title.

 

[Whileee]

There is another reason why the COG might want to get a definitive answer sooner rather than later from Jamison. Right now, the Jobing.com arena has a total of 6 non-NHL events scheduled between now and next June. Even if they average a total of 15,000 for these events, the grand total would be less than 100,000 patrons. Hard to see how Glendale finds that an acceptable outcome of arena management over the next several months.

 

[madhi19]

There is another reason why the COG might want to get a definitive answer sooner rather than later from Jamison. Right now, the Jobing.com arena has a total of 6 non-NHL events scheduled between now and next June. Even if they average a total of 15,000 for these events, the grand total would be less than 100,000 patrons. Hard to see how Glendale finds that an acceptable outcome of arena management over the next several months.

This is what happen when you pay up front for that kind of service. The serious Arena owners usually give a minimum AMF up front and a % of profit.

 

[TheLegend]

Car dealership gives $50,000 to reverse Glendale sales tax hike impacting Coyotes deal

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2012/09/26/car-dealership-gives-50000-to.html

That makes some sense for them from a business standpoint. The sales tax on a car is pretty steep

Except the sales tax increase voted on by the city council exempts all items over $5,000.

Sanderson Ford would only feel it from selling junkers or trade-ins they price under $5,000. Which may account for 1% of their car sales business (if that).

 

[TheLegend]

... yes I recall that, and so Im wondering what their worried about? That would only affect low-end used cars, and most major dealers dont even deal with inventory like that. If they take in a beater, they'll just flip it wholesale to wherever. However, as most cars are Leased rather than purchased, wouldnt the rate of 10.2% apply to your monthly? And even if it did, your talking maybe $12-$25 more per month depending on what your driving of course, hardly something that would stop you from buying/leasing in Glendale. Now, when it comes to appliances, home theatre & audio etc, thats not the greatest, but still not insurmountable one would think from the retailers perspective.

Killy.... Mr. Kimmerle, Sanderson Ford's owner, was pretty specific about this tax increase affecting his car sales.... not his leasing operations.

All the more reason why to suggest this goes well beyond an AMF for a hockey franchise. Everyone here has chosen to ignore that aspect, but it's not surprising.

 

[TheLegend]

... I guess it depends on what the Candidates positions are on the matter, and how much of a "scare" they signal to the electorate. That without the tax increases, massive cuts to essential services, public safety, Police & Fire etc, saying little or nothing about Camelback, the Coyotes.

The council made it quite clear on Tuesday what would happen if the initiative passes. And the hockey team was the least of their worries.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

I can't believe we are about to end another month without this being resolved.

 

[DancesWithWookies]

I can't believe we are about to end another month without this being resolved.

and the next month, and the next month and so on and so forth...

 

[Killion]

Killy.... Mr. Kimmerle, Sanderson Ford's owner, was pretty specific about this tax increase affecting his car sales.... not his leasing operations. All the more reason why to suggest this goes well beyond an AMF for a hockey franchise. Everyone here has chosen to ignore that aspect, but it's not surprising.

Well, I just did a quick search of his inventory, and Kimmerle's got less than 6 cars on his lot for less than $5K out of 100's, and those at $4888. So then whats really going on? Purchases over $5K are "exempt".

Maybe this Kimmerle Dudes a front for the Gila Tribe and Salt River Band who have cottoned on to the Tohono's plan to either invest or loan Jamison the money to buy the franchise, using their stake in the franchise as leverage to develop their Casino & Resort on 51st, not far from Sanderson Ford itself?

The Gila River Band have stood shoulder to shoulder with the COG against the Tohono's as they have their own interests with Casino's in Chandler & Phoenix and the Salt River Pima Band with Talking Stick Casino & Resort over in Scottsdale. Enmity between all 3 bands, but mostly directed towards & at the Tohono's by the Gila & Salt River Bands stretches back through time to pre-Spanish Conquest. Complicated & complex.

Maybe Kimmerle's really worried that if Jamisons successful, the COG going ahead with its tax increase, the Casino going up on Northern near 51st, his business will suffer, land prices will plummet even more than they already have. Including all that acreage he's got his dealership sitting on. Maybe he's bought additional property, speculatively. So you have this car dealer William H. Macy Fargo type hooking up with the Gila & Salt River Bands, convincing the COG to resist the Tohonos plans, throwing money & energy into GlendaleNow; on the other, the Tohonos by stealth backing Jamisons play....

 

[RR]

Well, I just did a quick search of his inventory, and Kimmerle's got less than 6 cars on his lot for less than $5K out of 100's, and those at $4888. So then whats really going on? Purchases over $5K are "exempt".

The increase is $0.007 (from $0.025 to $0.032) so that's an increase of 70 cents per $100 spent. On the sale of a $5,000 car it adds $35 to the cost. For a $50,000 car it's still $35 since anything over $5,000 is exempt. It will cost you more in time and gas to avoid the tax. It's not about the money.