Phoenix LVII (or MDCCLXXVI): Declarations of (In)Dependence

[Acesolid]

Then why is the Colisée paid 100% by governments if it's so profitable? Not THAT different.

Because the governments can borrow the money to build it at very very low interrest by issuing bonds since they are safe investments.

And so altrough it would not be profitable for a firm (since it takes so long to build), it will be for a government, since on top of the revenue, it also brings visitors to the city/Province in the form of events that give the government it's money back!

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Because the governments can borrow the money to build it at very very low interrest by issuing bonds since they are safe investments.

And so altrough it would not be profitable for a firm (since it takes so long to build), it will be for a government, since on top of the revenue, it also brings visitors to the city/Province in the form of events that give the government it's money back!

Sounds like Glendale's original strategy...

 

[OthmarAmmann]

What did Jamison say? Did he finally reveal his investors? Did he indicate when he will close the deal with the NHL, or at least a definitive timeline? When might he finalize the lease with Glendale?

Two months ago

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1192091

On the other hand, the more there are activities, the more there will be profits for the tenant... BUT WE WOULD NEVER PAY TO HAVE A TENANT HAVING PROFIT FROM US FOR OUR BUILDING !!!

whoa, you might to ease off the coffee there bud.

calm down a little.

 

[Nordskull]

FIRST CHAPTER EPILOGUE

The NHL took a decision, being to manage the team at their own expenses for the next season. It's now clear for me.

They will do it with or without an AMF.

Clearly in my mind, the NHL will be in Sea, Mark and Quebec city by 2015, is it by expansion or whatever mean.

I predict COG will not be able to hold its obligations towards Jamison if he ever buys the team, and the latter will move this franchise to Seattle.

You tought the arena was empty last season?

Last post for me for a long time. No sympathy for Glendale and the Coyotes.

So long.

 

[awfulwaffle]

FIRST CHAPTER EPILOGUE

The NHL took a decision, being to manage the team at their own expenses for the next season. It's now clear for me.

They will do it with or without an AMF.

Clearly in my mind, the NHL will be in Sea, Mark and Quebec city by 2015, is it by expansion or whatever mean.

I predict COG will not be able to hold its obligations towards Jamison if he ever buys the team, and the latter will move this franchise to Seattle.

You tought the arena was empty last season?

Last post for me for a long time. No sympathy for Glendale and the Coyotes.

So long.

 

[AllByDesign]

Last post for me for a long time. No sympathy for Glendale and the Coyotes.

So long.

I can always drink to silence. Cheers.

 

[berklon]

I'm not going to pretend I care about the financial well-being of the City of Glendale - because I don't care.

When I see a city, company or individual make an obviously horrible financial decision despite all the evidence they've had at their disposal - I can't help but enjoy the show. The next few years are going to be fun to watch. I'm already envisioning the excuses and finger-pointing that will occur when it all comes crumbling down.

 

[manisback121]

FIRST CHAPTER EPILOGUE

The NHL took a decision, being to manage the team at their own expenses for the next season. It's now clear for me.

They will do it with or without an AMF.

Clearly in my mind, the NHL will be in Sea, czz and Quebec city by 2015, is it by expansion or whatever mean.

I predict COG will not be able to hold its obligations towards Jamison if he ever buys the team, and the latter will move this franchise to Seattle.

You tought the arena was empty last season?

Last post for me for a long time. No sympathy for Glendale and the Coyotes.

So long.

Even if the lease survives, they can only blame the economy so long before they realize its the underlying economics of the market the arena's located in.

In order to have any hope in sustaining a fanbase willing to goto the middle of ****ing nowhere on a consistent basis, they would have needed easily, an additional 5 years in AWA.

Now its all Glendale up against the clock, its not matter of if they breach the contract, but a matter of when they're no longer able to meet obligations...if the lease survives.

 

[Ugmo]

Hey, I'll be the first to start a stupid goodbye thread if this saga really ends positively for Glendale, but I'll believe that when I see it.

 

[Acesolid]

Sounds like Glendale's original strategy...

Of course it does! The problem with glendale was:

There's another, better arena right next door (with the Suns).

The product there isn't what the people want.

And so it lost money! In quebec we'll have the only arena of that size in canada east of montreal. It'll bring in people from all over the place for shows, conventions and hockey.

 

[Fidel Astro]

A question:

If things do go Glendale's way, will discussion of attendance be acceptable once again?

It seems like Coyotes' attendance discussion is frowned upon in general (I guess because mods think it's an attack on Yotes fans or something), but if the team does get one last kick at the can, I think it will very important to monitor whether the fanbase steps up and proves the NHL right for keeping the team there, or if the slump gets even worse.

In my view, discussing attendance is never an attack on the fans so much as a comment on the apathy of the rest of the people in the market.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Of course it does! The problem with glendale was:

There's another, better arena right next door (with the Suns).

The product there isn't what the people want.

And so it lost money! In quebec we'll have the only arena of that size in canada east of montreal. It'll bring in people from all over the place for shows, conventions and hockey.

Everything I've read has said that jobing.com is a very nice arena. Never heard it suggested that US Airways Arena is any better - indeed it's probably worse for hockey.

 

[Acesolid]

Everything I've read has said that jobing.com is a very nice arena. Never heard it suggested that US Airways Arena is any better - indeed it's probably worse for hockey.

I was not speaking of only the arena itself, but of it's positioning!

Everything I've read says that the Jobing.com arena is way too far away from Pheonix proper and it's population centers!

 

[Stanley Cup]

Good ol' Antoine teasing us

 

[CasualFan]

Last post for me for a long time. No sympathy for Glendale and the Coyotes.

So long.

Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mundays.

Stop ruining Hawaii Shirt Day.

 

[David_99]

Sounds like somebody has a case of the Mundays.

Stop ruining Hawaii Shirt Day.

Cobb in Milton's voice "I'm going to burn the building down"

 

[cobra427]

Even if the lease survives, they can only blame the economy so long before they realize its the underlying economics of the market the arena's located in.

In order to have any hope in sustaining a fanbase willing to goto the middle of ****ing nowhere on a consistent basis, they would have needed easily, an additional 5 years in AWA.

Now its all Glendale up against the clock, its not matter of if they breach the contract, but a matter of when they're no longer able to meet obligations...if the lease survives.

I agree, there were better locations, like south Scottsdale. I think longer term it could work in Glendale. Westgate is really a nice complex with the Cardinals, Coyotes, bars, retail etc. The location is on the freeway and Glendale/the west side, only nice high end place on the west side, and it is a blue collar area. The ownership shamble has really been a detriment to any long term sustainable marketing plan to draw a fan base from the west side, so we don't know what will work yet. The demographic of the fan base has changed since they left AWA, which was more of a band wagon fan versus Glendale, which is more hard core, blue collar, IMHO.

 

[Puck and Gavel]

In my view, discussing attendance is never an attack on the fans so much as a comment on the apathy of the rest of the people in the market.

That reminds me of something Ken Daneyko said about the Devils. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something like "The Devils have the best and most loyal fans in hockey...all 10,000 of them."

Still, looks like a done deal and an end to the Phoenix ownership saga for the forseeable future. Cue the speculation about Long Island!

 

[rt]

A question:

If things do go Glendale's way, will discussion of attendance be acceptable once again?

It seems like Coyotes' attendance discussion is frowned upon in general (I guess because mods think it's an attack on Yotes fans or something), but if the team does get one last kick at the can, I think it will very important to monitor whether the fanbase steps up and proves the NHL right for keeping the team there, or if the slump gets even worse.

In my view, discussing attendance is never an attack on the fans so much as a comment on the apathy of the rest of the people in the market.

Attendance discussion isn't frowned on, it's attacks that are frowned on.

You are right though. Poor attendance isn't really something that represents regular posters on an internet hockey forum. Obviously any Coyotes fan on a forum like this is a die-hard or we wouldn't be here. When we talk about our empty arena, we aren't talking about us (of course there are a few Coyotes posters who feel I'm a fake fan because I work until 7pm M-F and only make it out to 8ish Saturday games a year, despite having watched 95% of all televised games since the very first televised game, apparently I'm a poser, but none of that is neither here nor there).

As far as attendance is concered you've all already heard our reasons (excuses if you prefer) for years now, and we've all heard your opinions on the matter as well. We've learned over the last three years that our words won't convince you all that we have potential to be a hockey market and you all know that your words won't convince us that we aren't.

As far as when it makes sense to look at attendance and decide who was right is concerned, that's a tough call and an interesting quesiton. Many here will want to say next season is appropriate. Fresh off of a WCF appearance and a brand new white knight owner should be more than enough for the market to show it's worth right? Not in the opinion of any Coyotes fan on this forum it's not. The Coyotes haven't had any marketing in three years. The only press is bad press. This market needs to be reminded that the team is still here. They need to have the idea that the team is here for good completely hammered into their minds. They need to realize that there is a really good product on the ice and one that's a whole hell of a lot more accessible than the other three major sports in the area. A better team, a cheaper show, a more entertaining sport and an organization that takes way, way better care of their fans. Loyalty is going to take a little while to build. I'd expect serious improvement from Jamison's first year to his second year and to his third. Do I expect to be making more money that the Winnipeg Jets by year three? Of course not. I do expect some major progress though. I expect most on this board will be extremely dissmissive of that progress however.

 

[pondnorth]

Attendance discussion isn't frowned on, it's attacks that are frowned on.

You are right though. Poor attendance isn't really something that represents regular posters on an internet hockey forum. Obviously any Coyotes fan on a forum like this is a die-hard or we wouldn't be here. When we talk about our empty arena, we aren't talking about us (of course there are a few Coyotes posters who feel I'm a fake fan because I work until 7pm M-F and only make it out to 8ish Saturday games a year, despite having watched 95% of all televised games since the very first televised game, apparently I'm a poser, but none of that is neither here nor there).

As far as attendance is concered you've all already heard our reasons (excuses if you prefer) for years now, and we've all heard your opinions on the matter as well. We've learned over the last three years that our words won't convince you all that we have potential to be a hockey market and you all know that your words won't convince us that we aren't.

As far as when it makes sense to look at attendance and decide who was right is concerned, that's a tough call and an interesting quesiton. Many here will want to say next season is appropriate. Fresh off of a WCF appearance and a brand new white knight owner should be more than enough for the market to show it's worth right? Not in the opinion of any Coyotes fan on this forum it's not. The Coyotes haven't had any marketing in three years. The only press is bad press. This market needs to be reminded that the team is still here. They need to have the idea that the team is here for good completely hammered into their minds. They need to realize that there is a really good product on the ice and one that's a whole hell of a lot more accessible than the other three major sports in the area. A better team, a cheaper show, a more entertaining sport and an organization that takes way, way better care of their fans. Loyalty is going to take a little while to build. I'd expect serious improvement from Jamison's first year to his second year and to his third. Do I expect to be making more money that the Winnipeg Jets by year three? Of course not. I do expect some major progress though. I expect most on this board will be extremely dissmissive of that progress however.

Good,interesting post and spot on.Being Canadian i can tell you the attendance arguments would come to an end if fans in Glendale would just buy tickets at league average and fill the place.That would make the franchise successful in Glendale and end the possibility of relocation.My question is,when do you think ticket prices will be at a level for this to occur? Thanks.

 

[Dado]

Sounds like Glendale's original strategy...

It is.

 

[rt]

Good,interesting post and spot on.Being Canadian i can tell you the attendance arguments would come to an end if fans in Glendale would just buy tickets at league average and fill the place.That would make the franchise successful in Glendale and end the possibility of relocation.My question is,when do you think ticket prices will be at a level for this to occur? Thanks.

I would assume the Suns have below average NBA prices, the Cardinals have below average NFL prices and the DBacks have below average MLB prices.

I could most definitely be wrong about that but I have no way of checking.

 

[NHLfan4life]

Of course it does! The problem with glendale was:

There's another, better arena right next door (with the Suns).

The product there isn't what the people want.

And so it lost money! In quebec we'll have the only arena of that size in canada east of montreal. It'll bring in people from all over the place for shows, conventions and hockey.

Ace, where the Suns play and where the Coyotes play is certainly not considered right next door. They are at least an hour apart with traffic.

 

[barneyg]

I would assume the Suns have below average NBA prices, the Cardinals have below average NFL prices and the DBacks have below average MLB prices.

I could most definitely be wrong about that but I have no way of checking.

No clue if this is accurate but Statgeek has average ticket prices for all sports. The Suns seem to be barely above average, while D-backs and Cards are below average (20-25th in their league). Their NHL ranking doesn't work though.

 

[Dado]

Blue Jays most expensive tickets in MLB? That seems a bit...dubious...?