Phoenix CXI: Awaiting CoG arena manager decision [UPD: AEG new Arena Manager?]

[GuelphStormer]

High on the Mayor's priority list?

The debate will take a few years, and not a few fortnights, as LeBluster(tm) keeps blustering...

No wonder the temperature is rising, it's from all this blustering hot air, both from LeBluster(tm) and now the Mayor...

i dont see anything wrong with what the Phoenix Mayor said ... unlike leblanc, he has no urgent deadline to see the new arena built. that it will take a long time to go thru appropriate channels is expected. 'priority' does not necessarily mean 'fast'.

edit to add: in fact, in many cases, a mayor's priorities often don't materialize until long after leaving office. it's quite common to see former elected officials (who actually did all the heavy lifting) as guests for a grand opening when the new officials take all the credit (for not having lifted a finger).

 

[Mightygoose]

i dont see anything wrong with what the Phoenix Mayor said ... unlike leblanc, he has no urgent deadline to see the new arena built. that it will take a long time to go thru appropriate channels is expected. 'priority' does not necessarily mean 'fast'.

Agreed, it's typical political double-speak.

One side being open to accommodate the Coyotes but not going to jump through hoops in both time and money to bring them on board either.

If they come downtown then he's a bit of a champion there and if they leave then it shows he tried.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

All of this is making me think that Leblanc's theoretical hole card is the reservation, not ASU or downtown Phoenix. It's just the only place where the timeline would work to have an arena built within five years, and it's definitely the only place where the absence of the typical government oversight and the presence of huge amounts of host liquidity might end up being favorable for the Coyotes. And given the Suns' and CoP timelines, it might just be the case that the Coyotes wouldn't have to share with the NBA team.

If that's the case, then the Coyotes' partnership with ASU would probably be along the lines of the new D1 arena becoming their primary practice rink, and their dealings downtown would be the bridge deal between next season and the opening of the new barn, since Leblanc is so enthusiastic about getting out of Glendale as soon as humanly possible.

 

[Whileee]

All of this is making me think that Leblanc's theoretical hole card is the reservation, not ASU or downtown Phoenix. It's just the only place where the timeline would work to have an arena built within five years, and it's definitely the only place where the absence of the typical government oversight and the presence of huge amounts of host liquidity might end up being favorable for the Coyotes. And given the Suns' and CoP timelines, it might just be the case that the Coyotes wouldn't have to share with the NBA team.

If that's the case, then the Coyotes' partnership with ASU would probably be along the lines of the new D1 arena becoming their primary practice rink, and their dealings downtown would be the bridge deal between next season and the opening of the new barn, since Leblanc is so enthusiastic about getting out of Glendale as soon as humanly possible.

Hard to believe that LeBlank has any short-term options better than GRA, particularly given the terms of his lease for next season. Which other arena will pay the Coyotes to play there, essentially subsidizing their losses. I get that he's disappointed that he's not getting the $15M annual "management fee" from Glendale, but it's still a pretty generous deal.

 

[cbcwpg]

All of this is making me think that Leblanc's theoretical hole card is the reservation, not ASU or downtown Phoenix. It's just the only place where the timeline would work to have an arena built within five years, and it's definitely the only place where the absence of the typical government oversight and the presence of huge amounts of host liquidity might end up being favorable for the Coyotes. And given the Suns' and CoP timelines, it might just be the case that the Coyotes wouldn't have to share with the NBA team.

If that's the case, then the Coyotes' partnership with ASU would probably be along the lines of the new D1 arena becoming their primary practice rink, and their dealings downtown would be the bridge deal between next season and the opening of the new barn, since Leblanc is so enthusiastic about getting out of Glendale as soon as humanly possible.

Might be right. Even if a perfect situation where LeBlanc drives up to the Mayor of Phoenix in a Brinks truck with say $400,000,000 in the back and says " I want to build me an arena "... even then there is a tonne of red tape to weed your way thru to get something like that built and it would still take years. But to get it built on the taxpayer dime, after the taxpayer is fully aware of what was going on down the highway in Glendale... even longer to get done and that's assuming the taxpayer says yes to handing over some money. Add into that the partnership agreements to be worked out with whomever IA partners with.

If timelines are short, avoiding red tape would be the goal.

 

[Killion]

All of this is making me think that Leblanc's theoretical hole card is the reservation, not ASU or downtown Phoenix. It's just the only place where the timeline would work to have an arena built within five years, and it's definitely the only place where the absence of the typical government oversight and the presence of huge amounts of host liquidity might end up being favorable for the Coyotes. And given the Suns' and CoP timelines, it might just be the case that the Coyotes wouldn't have to share with the NBA team.

If that's the case, then the Coyotes' partnership with ASU would probably be along the lines of the new D1 arena becoming their primary practice rink, and their dealings downtown would be the bridge deal between next season and the opening of the new barn, since Leblanc is so enthusiastic about getting out of Glendale as soon as humanly possible.

Ya, thats a plausible theory, one worth considering. Enmities between the 2 Native Tribes over the T'ohono's Casino in Glendale, further motivation, lots of dots that do in fact connect... plenty of room for speculation on that front & the only thing that makes any sense given the signals, timelines being floated by LeBlanc.

 

[MNNumbers]

Hard to believe that LeBlank has any short-term options better than GRA, particularly given the terms of his lease for next season. Which other arena will pay the Coyotes to play there, essentially subsidizing their losses. I get that he's disappointed that he's not getting the $15M annual "management fee" from Glendale, but it's still a pretty generous deal.

Terms for next season are 500K rent, and the gets all revenues from game nights. Nothing else

 

[Bonsai Tree]

A couple of small notes: 1. Mayor Stanton is desperate to keep the Suns in Phoenix. It is Sarver who is playing the Talking Stick card, not LeBlanc. LeBlanc is along for the ride. Stanton would like the Coyotes back in Phoenix, but that pales next to the need to keep the Suns.

2. Talking Stick would love to host the Suns, as well as the Coyotes. It would be quite the accomplishment to be the first Indian nation to have not one, but two professional sports franchises. As the Suns lease will run out in less than 3 years IIRC, a reasonable expectation is that the Res will push Phoenix to build a new arena sooner, rather than later, out of fear of losing the Suns.

 

[TheLegend]

Hard to believe that LeBlank has any short-term options better than GRA, particularly given the terms of his lease for next season. Which other arena will pay the Coyotes to play there, essentially subsidizing their losses. I get that he's disappointed that he's not getting the $15M annual "management fee" from Glendale, but it's still a pretty generous deal.

Terms for next season are 500K rent, and the gets all revenues from game nights. Nothing else

I'm still amazed as to how the $15 million gets played here.

How many times does it take to keep mentioning that of that $15 million some $7-8 million of it went back to Glendale and much of the remainder went to operating the arena?

By only being a tenant the Coyotes no longer have that liability.

What will remain to be seen is can AEG deliver on operating the arena and provide a profit for themselves and Glendale.

 

[TheLegend]

A couple of small notes: 1. Mayor Stanton is desperate to keep the Suns in Phoenix. It is Sarver who is playing the Talking Stick card, not LeBlanc. LeBlanc is along for the ride. Stanton would like the Coyotes back in Phoenix, but that pales next to the need to keep the Suns.

2. Talking Stick would love to host the Suns, as well as the Coyotes. It would be quite the accomplishment to be the first Indian nation to have not one, but two professional sports franchises. As the Suns lease will run out in less than 3 years IIRC, a reasonable expectation is that the Res will push Phoenix to build a new arena sooner, rather than later, out of fear of losing the Suns.

Point of clarity. The Suns' lease runs much longer than 3 more years but a door to exit early comes in about that time if certain conditions are met.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Which other arena will pay the Coyotes to play there, essentially subsidizing their losses.

Glendale is not going to pay a dime to the Coyotes to play at GRA. A sweetheart rent deal, sure, but no subsidy. In theory/on paper, the casino-funded tribe would be most likely to offer some sort of subsidy deal and none of it would be subject to the oversight of an entity such as the Goldwater Institute.

If timelines are short, avoiding red tape would be the goal.

That's the big reason why I'm leaning in this theoretical direction. It's the only timeline that can come close to providing a new barn without half a decade of temporary housing in the best-case scenario.

A couple of small notes: 1. Mayor Stanton is desperate to keep the Suns in Phoenix. It is Sarver who is playing the Talking Stick card, not LeBlanc. LeBlanc is along for the ride. Stanton would like the Coyotes back in Phoenix, but that pales next to the need to keep the Suns.

2. Talking Stick would love to host the Suns, as well as the Coyotes. It would be quite the accomplishment to be the first Indian nation to have not one, but two professional sports franchises. As the Suns lease will run out in less than 3 years IIRC, a reasonable expectation is that the Res will push Phoenix to build a new arena sooner, rather than later, out of fear of losing the Suns.

These are all good points. I think what could happen is that Talking Stick will build the barn with the idea of taking the Coyotes as the first tenant, and then Sarver will have a bigger ace-in-the-hole in his negotiations with Stanton if the Talking Stick reservation arena exists and is up and running. Certainly would provide more leverage than a blueprint, y'know?

Staying within theory, that could still work out great for the Coyotes because the reservation barn wouldn't be built as an NBA-first arena with obstructed views, something that a new Phoenix arena would not be able to offer.

Anyway, this seems to be the most plausible of the "staying in Arizona" scenarios because of the attendant hurdles and red tape with ASU and downtown.

 

[NickWIHockey]

.... no need for black choppers my friend.... all I need (and have) are the coordinates of your location... longitude & latitude... Ingo Swann aint got nuthin on me... remote viewer.... and yes, there are mammoth gargantuan humongous big large alien bases on the dark side of the moon.... maybe thats who Anthony should be having a chat with... the Greys... the Lightbeings... get him hooked up with a nice bit of property on Phobos.... maybe thats why no news of this "accelerated process".... all telepathic... and yet even... as I dial into the universal conscience... not a peep... not so much as a whisper, a breath or a thought.



I just dont see the NHL approving of much less sanctioning & supporting such a plan. Your dealing with a separate Nation State. Remember when there was talk of the T'ohono's buying Glendale Arena and possibly buying a minority stake in the Coyotes? Lawyers here waded in on that one and from what I can recall, just too much potential exposure should anything ever go wrong. If the NHL was to approve such, theyd be the 1st of the Big4 (beyond the Browns situation with community ownership).... Tony there, way he operates...lets say he did manage to hook a Band in, their subsidizing the operation up the ying~yang?.... well... one thing to be messing around with Glendale, quite another to be....... well, you get the picture......

... and never mind Jimmy Hoffa...

you forget K that NFls Packers are community owned- exempt from that leagues no more than 30 owners rule. that came about after the first ownership structure got revoked because the Pack got caught using college players under assumed names and got the boot. had to buy back in, in poker parlance.

 

[JimAnchower]

A couple of small notes: 1. Mayor Stanton is desperate to keep the Suns in Phoenix. It is Sarver who is playing the Talking Stick card, not LeBlanc. LeBlanc is along for the ride. Stanton would like the Coyotes back in Phoenix, but that pales next to the need to keep the Suns.

2. Talking Stick would love to host the Suns, as well as the Coyotes. It would be quite the accomplishment to be the first Indian nation to have not one, but two professional sports franchises. As the Suns lease will run out in less than 3 years IIRC, a reasonable expectation is that the Res will push Phoenix to build a new arena sooner, rather than later, out of fear of losing the Suns.

Suns lease runs to 2032 and there is an opt-out in 2022 if the venue is considered obsolete. So they could conceivably bring Salt River into the equation in 2018 or 2019 to start formal discussions with them and Phoenix.

 

[JimAnchower]

I'm still amazed as to how the $15 million gets played here.

How many times does it take to keep mentioning that of that $15 million some $7-8 million of it went back to Glendale and much of the remainder went to operating the arena?

By only being a tenant the Coyotes no longer have that liability.

What will remain to be seen is can AEG deliver on operating the arena and provide a profit for themselves and Glendale.

What Glendale received from the arena came in the form of ticket and parking surcharges, and naming rights. That mostly wasn't coming out of IAs pockets. While they didn't keep all the $15M AMF as additional revenue, they did keep a good chuck of that (maybe around half).

 

[GuelphStormer]

I'm still amazed as to how the $15 million gets played here.

How many times does it take to keep mentioning that of that $15 million some $7-8 million of it went back to Glendale and much of the remainder went to operating the arena?

By only being a tenant the Coyotes no longer have that liability.

What will remain to be seen is can AEG deliver on operating the arena and provide a profit for themselves and Glendale.

i dont think you understand how that worked. the only "liability" IA had was the cost of operating the arena ... and by most accounts, they didnt do a bang up job on that ... especially re: non-hockey events. they easily cleared $9M, likely $10M to $11M on that AMF.

and yes, we will see what AEG delivers.

 

[Llama19]

i dont think you understand how that worked. the only "liability" IA had was the cost of operating the arena ... and by most accounts, they didnt do a bang up job on that ... especially re: non-hockey events. they easily cleared $9M, likely $10M to $11M on that AMF.

and yes, we will see what AEG delivers.

FY2014
Revenue received from IceArizona - $5.8MM
Expenditures made by Glendale - $14.0MM
Deficit to Glendale - $8.2MM

FY2015
Revenue received from IceArizona - $7.0MM
Expenditures made by Glendale - $15.5MM
Deficit to Glendale - $8.5MM

Source: http://icearizona.org/

 

[Ciao]

Okay, so now the idea is that one of the first nations might build the Coyotes a new arena in a favorable location, and possibly subsidize the hockey operations?

I'm not dreaming this up, am I?

 

[GuelphStormer]

FY2014
Revenue received from IceArizona - $5.8MM
Expenditures made by Glendale - $14.0MM
Deficit to Glendale - $8.2MM

FY2015
Revenue received from IceArizona - $7.0MM
Expenditures made by Glendale - $15.5MM
Deficit to Glendale - $8.5MM

Source: http://icearizona.org/

thanks, but this is irrelevant. this is glendale's side. to understand how much IA made, we must look specifically at IA's side.

as JimAnchower notes, revenues generated by events that flowed back to Glendale are different from the $15M. they are not part of that $15M.

indeed, we have all been incorrectly assuming that IA netted the difference, which is why i suggested that IA may have actually netted considerably more of that $15M AMF than the deficit that Glendale saw.

 

[TheLegend]

What Glendale received from the arena came in the form of ticket and parking surcharges, and naming rights. That mostly wasn't coming out of IAs pockets. While they didn't keep all the $15M AMF as additional revenue, they did keep a good chuck of that (maybe around half).

Yet my point is posters trying to project IA gets to pocket $15 million free and clear.

Under the current agreement Glendale doesn't get anything back. No ticket surcharge..... no parking.... nada.

So explain just exactly how much does IA get out of this?

Edit: Add into this that before the original IA agreement there wasn't a parking charge except for one lot next to the arena which began the year before.

 

[Llama19]

Okay, so now the idea is that one of the first nations might build the Coyotes a new arena in a favorable location, and possibly subsidize the hockey operations?

I'm not dreaming this up, am I?

No, you are not dreaming...

 

[TheLegend]

FY2014
Revenue received from IceArizona - $5.8MM
Expenditures made by Glendale - $14.0MM
Deficit to Glendale - $8.2MM

FY2015
Revenue received from IceArizona - $7.0MM
Expenditures made by Glendale - $15.5MM
Deficit to Glendale - $8.5MM

Source: http://icearizona.org/

Llama I would think using Glendale's FYM as a source instead of a homebrew one which pardodies IA's name would carry more credence.

 

[Ciao]

No, you are not dreaming...

Do they like hockey that much?

 

[Llama19]

Llama I would think using Glendale's FYM as a source instead of a homebrew one which pardodies IA's name would carry more credence.

That web site is sourcing both the Monthly Arena Reports and Glendale's Follow Your MONEY and consolidating/comparing both figures, which never seem to figure, as is also noted in Glendale's own compliance/audit report...

 

[CasualFan]

FY2014
Revenue received from IceArizona - $5.8MM

FY2015
Revenue received from IceArizona - $7.0MM

I think the context was revenues so it's fair to isolate those amounts. But it's equally fair to say that SMG was entirely capable of booking the same non-hockey events so from the revenue amounts above, how much were attributable to the Coyotes? Luckily the report has line items.

FY15: approx $3.75MM
FY14: approx $3.5MM

Obviously that's no where near "some $7-8 million" but specifics rarely matter in these things

As for how much does IA pocket, their own budget submission for fiscal year ending 6/30/16 forecast a profit of $9,476,425. So, no, IA didn't pocket it all. They only pocketed 2/3rds of it.

 

[Llama19]

I think the context was revenues so it's fair to isolate those amounts. But it's equally fair to say that SMG was entirely capable of booking the same non-hockey events so from the revenue amounts above, how much were attributable to the Coyotes? Luckily the report has line items.

FY15: approx $3.75MM
FY14: approx $3.5MM

Obviously that's no where near "some $7-8 million" but specifics rarely matter in these things

As for how much does IA pocket, their own budget submission for fiscal year ending 6/30/16 forecast a profit of $9,476,425. So, no, IA didn't pocket it all. They only pocketed 2/3rds of it.

Thank you for pointing that out...