Phoenix CVII: Can yet the lease of my true love control

[TheLegend]

To quote from the August 12 article, Vice mayor wants to lower taxes:

"“I [Vice Mayor Ian Hugh said] know I’m not alone in thinking this or wanting it done either, but I think the city needs to begin an RFP process for securing a management firm for our arena.â€

Under the terms of the newly renegotiated contract with the Arizona Coyotes, the city can, after one year, issue a request for proposals and transfer management of the arena from the team to some other contractor."

Source: http://www.glendalestar.com/news/article_0fe889c2-4058-11e5-8b69-679928620737.html

Begin the beguine...

You know that the sales tax increase wasn't completely related to the Coyotes. But it makes for good newspaper reading and election year narrative.

Everyone thought the sales tax increase would hurt Glendale's business and it didn't even put a dent in it.

They're still avoiding the other 800lb gorilla in the room that is Camelback Ranch and with the recent ruling that forces the AZSTA to refund the millions in car rental tax dollars they collected means Glendale (and the city of Goodyear) will now have to cover 100% of their construction costs.

 

[kihekah19*]

. Time & time again every single player in this charade has disappointed, underperformed, deliberately misled. .

This sounds like opinionated speculation, as opposed to fact.

Facts please.

 

[Killion]

This sounds like opinionated speculation, as opposed to fact.

Facts please.

.... yeah. watch it kihekah, come over & start Modding yer team page too. you guys live there & dont even know where the best sub sammys are. need help apparently. ha? even I know that.

 

[Whileee]

You know that the sales tax increase wasn't completely related to the Coyotes. But it makes for good newspaper reading and election year narrative.

Everyone thought the sales tax increase would hurt Glendale's business and it didn't even put a dent in it.

They're still avoiding the other 800lb gorilla in the room that is Camelback Ranch and with the recent ruling that forces the AZSTA to refund the millions in car rental tax dollars they collected means Glendale (and the city of Goodyear) will now have to cover 100% of their construction costs.

Yup, they still need to deal with Camelback Ranch.

Luckily for the COG, LeBlanc's stupidity in hiring Tindall and Frisoni gave them a "get out of jail" card in relation to the expensive IA arena management deal.

 

[Llama19]

 

[TheLegend]

Yup, they still need to deal with Camelback Ranch.

Luckily for the COG, LeBlanc's stupidity in hiring Tindall and Frisoni gave them a "get out of jail" card in relation to the expensive IA arena management deal.

Actually Whileee.... even without Tindall and Frisoni, I expected some sort of public spat to eventually break out over the lease agreement. This wasn't something that happened or was decided upon overnight.

 

[Whileee]

Actually Whileee.... even without Tindall and Frisoni, I expected some sort of public spat to eventually break out over the lease agreement. This wasn't something that happened or was decided upon overnight.

No doubt. But it's hard to imagine how the CoG could have cancelled the arena management deal if LeBlanc hadn't made the blunder of hiring Tindall and Frisoni, thus opening up a legal avenue to terminate. He gave Glendale the perfect out and they took it gladly. He basically squandered a $200 million deal because of that decision.

 

[JimAnchower]

Joyce Clark has thoughts on GlendaleFirst! and their recall efforts. She thinks IA may have told GF to put a stop it.

I contend, as I did originally, that Glendale First! used a public safety issue as a smoke screen for their primary anger over the action taken by a majority of Glendale’s city council canceling the original lease agreement with the Coyotes’ ownership. If they were really concerned about public safety issues they would have continued their recall effort. In this press release their angst over public safety is almost an after thought, easily dismissed now that the Coyotes are staying for the next two years.

We can assume that the Coyotes’ ownership counseled Glendale First! to cut it out and to quit its puny attempt to unseat the existing councilmembers as ownership seeks to mend fences with the Glendale city council as it enters a period of renegotiation of a new, more permanent lease agreement.

http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/glendale-first-backs-down/

 

[Killion]

Joyce Clark has thoughts on GlendaleFirst! and their recall efforts. She thinks IA may have told GF to put a stop it.

Oh yeah, as suggested by myself & others when it hit they'd withdrawn their Recall Campaign pretty darn sure they did so at the "request" of LeBlanc & Woods, who likely (speculation) had a hand in instigating it in the first place. That Recall Campaign part of the ill conceived counter-attack by LeBlanc & Woods to the Cities vote to void the Lease Agreement. Three pronged, standard format of;

1) IA Lawsuit
2) Media Blitz (trash talking the City)
3) Recall Campaign

All three prongs being ill conceived, dirty tricks, specious, fabricated, disingenuous, rotten without any real bite to begin with and I think pulled on order of the NHL itself. Clark goes on to opine that in pursuing a new agreement that with the Recall Campaign still swirling around it wouldve been counterproductive to negotiations between IA & the COG. While that would certainly have been a negative factor, its purpose to begin with no longer required, so closed, scrubbed, BS piety & platitudes as they slunk off into the desert with their tails between their legs. But not before someone from somewhere took a big chunk out of one their ringleaders hydes, George Fallar. And I think theres a lot more to that story than we currently know & understand.

In light of what went down & with cynicism at an all time new low, one really has to wonder how sincere the City is in even wanting to consider IA as the Arena Manager past this season, extending the contract for another 10~15 years. Youd think as well that LeBlanc & the NHL would pick up on that. Is the relationship so broken it cant possibly be fixed & for which they only have themselves to blame or what? Without the franchise managing the building, thats it thats all. Goners. It beggars belief not to think Weiers & Hugh dont know that, their suggestion that they'd like the team to stay merely public posturing as thats just not possible unless they cut another deal with IceArizona to manage GRA.... So as TL suggests above, they do have some serious leverage now in dealing with IceArizona and its not outside of the realm of possibilities that a new deal does get done between the two parties. Were really all back to square one because as far as Im concerned the NHL still owns this team, controls it destiny, IA merely a front, Caretakers, since 2009 a league owned team and one without a long-term lease. Lousy, despicable black-op blowing up in the NHL's face after a mere 24 months. So here we go again. Team needs owners, team needs a lease.

 

[MNNumbers]

Oh yeah, as suggested by myself & others when it hit they'd withdrawn their Recall Campaign pretty darn sure they did so at the "request" of LeBlanc & Woods, who likely (speculation) had a hand in instigating it in the first place. That Recall Campaign part of the ill conceived counter-attack by LeBlanc & Woods to the Cities vote to void the Lease Agreement. Three pronged, standard format of;

1) IA Lawsuit
2) Media Blitz (trash talking the City)
3) Recall Campaign

All three prongs being ill conceived, dirty tricks, specious, fabricated, disingenuous, rotten without any real bite to begin with and I think pulled on order of the NHL itself. Clark goes on to opine that in pursuing a new agreement that with the Recall Campaign still swirling around it wouldve been counterproductive to negotiations between IA & the COG. While that would certainly have been a negative factor, its purpose to begin with no longer required, so closed, scrubbed, BS piety & platitudes as they slunk off into the desert with their tails between their legs. But not before someone from somewhere took a big chunk out of one their ringleaders hydes, George Fallar. And I think theres a lot more to that story than we currently know & understand.

In light of what went down & with cynicism at an all time new low, one really has to wonder how sincere the City is in even wanting to consider IA as the Arena Manager past this season, extending the contract for another 10~15 years. Youd think as well that LeBlanc & the NHL would pick up on that. Is the relationship so broken it cant possibly be fixed & for which they only have themselves to blame or what? Without the franchise managing the building, thats it thats all. Goners. It beggars belief not to think Weiers & Hugh dont know that, their suggestion that they'd like the team to stay merely public posturing as thats just not possible unless they cut another deal with IceArizona to manage GRA.... So as TL suggests above, they do have some serious leverage now in dealing with IceArizona and its not outside of the realm of possibilities that a new deal does get done between the two parties. Were really all back to square one because as far as Im concerned the NHL still owns this team, controls it destiny, IA merely a front, Caretakers, since 2009 a league owned team and one without a long-term lease. Lousy, despicable black-op blowing up in the NHL's face after a mere 24 months. So here we go again.

Killion,

I keep wondering this:

Why would anyone think there would be a long term deal available between IA and CoG? If there were, would they not have signed it already? Why do a 2 year lease, only to negotiate a longer one with the same parties?

No, it must have been like this:

CoG votes to cancel, because they feel IA has swindled them, and is not acting in good faith in keeping the few obligations they have in the AMULA.

IA/NHL complain loudly, and try to scare CoG into changing their minds with empty threats. This is the same tactic by which the AMULA was passed in the first place (threat of empty building).

(Optional, but rumored in at least 2 places): IA quickly looks for a fast relo destination, but can't find one.

Now, with no place else to go, and all parties realizing how strong the case CoG has under Arizona law, IA has to negotiate with CoG.

CoG really doesn't want IA, but they do like having the team. And, they have no arena operator without them, so.....

1 year for IA as operator. But, CoG forces IA to accept a 2nd year as tenant.

This allows the city to continue the idea of the team helping the local area and it allows the team to play in GRA in 15-16 without publicly stating that it's a lame duck year, but....

Everyone who can read between lines thinks that it means the team is relocating in a year or two.

And, the almost immediate discussion of an RFP for arena management confirms that.

 

[JimAnchower]

Everyone who can read between lines thinks that it means the team is relocating in a year or two.

And, the almost immediate discussion of an RFP for arena management confirms that.

I think the COG does want the Coyotes to stay, just not with IA (or NHL) as owners.

If the arena manager deal does go to someone other than IA and it happens rather quickly as it seems it will, how quickly does it become obvious that this may be the lame duck year to the media? I'm sure there will be reports of a potential deal with the Suns to move downtown and perhaps into a new arena in a few years. Of course, the Coyotes can't survive as the sub-tenant which how a potential would be structured. There may even be reports of a new ownership group looking to keep the team in the Valley, much like Jamison, Hulsizer, etc did before. Of course, will any of these be legitimate?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I don't care what you guys say, I'm still buying my Coyotes license plate on Monday.

 

[TheLegend]

Joyce Clark has thoughts on GlendaleFirst! and their recall efforts. She thinks IA may have told GF to put a stop it.



http://joyceclarkunfiltered.com/glendale-first-backs-down/

One has to remember that Joyce Clark and Glendale First are not friends. And as Joyce even admitted in another blog... "I used them" to try and get herself reelected to the council when she was getting run over by Chavira and his firefighters political machine.

So one has to wonder her actual motivations at this point, considering all the other issues Glendale is facing. She seems almost obsessed at this point with everyone who is related to her losing the election (in her mind).

 

[Llama19]

Coyotes settle lawsuit with Scottsdale PR firm

To quote:

"The two sides reached an undisclosed settlement last week stemming from a suit filed in May 2014 by Rose+Moser+Allyn Public & Online Relations, according to Maricopa County Superior Court records.

“The parties have agreed to resolve the matter amicably,†said Nicole Stanton, attorney for IceArizona Hockey, the Coyotes’ ownership group.

Stanton and Rose declined to comment on terms of the settlement.

Under the settlement terms, according to the suit, the Coyotes would pay Rose a $25,000 base fee plus a $250,000 bonus if the referendum was unsuccessful, which it was.

The team was to pay $55,000 annually from 2014-17 to sponsor the Bentley Scottsdale Polo Championships, now in its fifth year, and provide two front-row hockey tickets for eight games per season over five years, according to the suit."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ettle-lawsuit-scottsdale-polo-event/32112415/

 

[Roadrage]

I don't care what you guys say, I'm still buying my Coyotes license plate on Monday.

Most likely will become a collectible in a couple years along with your Coyotes sweater. I would have liked to see a more mutually beneficial contract but it appears to me that all bridges are left crispy.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Most likely will become a collectible in a couple years along with your Coyotes sweater.

As pleasant (?) as that sentiment is, do you really think Coyotes sweaters will be collectors' items like Whaler or Nordiques jerseys are?

I do have a Gretzky-autographed Coyotes jersey (a STH "perk" a few years ago, if you can believe that) that I can use to line our catbox, though.

 

[Killion]

A) Why would anyone think there would be a long term deal available between IA and CoG? If there were, would they not have signed it already? Why do a 2 year lease, only to negotiate a longer one with the same parties?

B) (Optional, but rumored in at least 2 places): IA quickly looks for a fast relo destination, but can't find one.... Now, with no place else to go, and all parties realizing how strong the case CoG has under Arizona law, IA has to negotiate with CoG.... CoG really doesn't want IA, but they do like having the team. And, they have no arena operator without them, so.....

C) 1 year for IA as operator. But, CoG forces IA to accept a 2nd year as tenant.... This allows the city to continue the idea of the team helping the local area and it allows the team to play in GRA in 15-16 without publicly stating that it's a lame duck year, but.... Everyone who can read between lines thinks that it means the team is relocating in a year or two..... And, the almost immediate discussion of an RFP for arena management confirms that.

Condensed your post with careful edits so integrity of content & context retained.....

A) Its going to take time for the smoke to clear, Glendale blowing things up, IceArizona rather than helping their cause adding even more smoke & haze with round after round of ineffective volleys from the Lawsuit, Media Blitz & Recall Campaigns.... In voiding the Lease the COG now has the upper hand & leverage in dealing with IA/NHL in crafting a new long~term Lease Agreement, something they had but never optimized back in 2013 when they floated the RFP for the same reason; to try & get some leverage, gain a foot up on IA. Ultimately though as we know essentially cratering, never using it. In considering both sides of this situation, I would suggest it is possible that the COG is in fact engaged in a disinformation campaign themselves, essentially pulling the same stunt they did in 2013 with the RFP only this time using it to really turn the screws on IA & secure an equitable long-term agreement.

B) The NHL purportedly tells IA shortly after the vote to void the Lease that they have some ridiculous 72hr window to look for possible out of state relo destinations, and this while the league itself is accepting Expansion Applications? Yeah. If Foley or Peladeau were to return LeBlanc's phone calls & engage him in negotiations to purchase & move the Coyotes to Vegas or Quebec, they could kiss their Expansion Applications Goodbye & like Balsillie wind up possibly Blackballed from ever securing a team. For the NHL to be made whole, theyd need probably around $300M (plus another $200M in Relo Fee's in order to justify their absurd $500M Exp Fee) for that franchise, an amount that is over double what Paul Allen balked at in 2013 and of course Seattle, nightmare of an arena situation. Not happening. Indeed, not even Expansion App's from either one of those markets. Whats more, moving that team in late June/July? Could be done but the NHL didnt really need to. Cause a lot of problems logistically.... whats more, the optics beyond unpalatable. Be running out on their fans, sponsors, broadcasters, you name it. Absolutely hollow empty words from LeBlanc, Bettman merely playing the Stooge.

C) And yes, it does appear the COG at least from reading inbetween the lines appears to want to retain the Coyotes but it doesnt wanna have much to do with IA, certainly not as the Arena Managers, certainly not at $15M, no performance clause, no transparency & so on. Unfortunately for Glendale they cant have their cake & eat it too. In todays NHL, the business model (with the exception of the Islanders) requires that management of the facility be enjoined to the franchise, simply cannot survive without controlling & capturing all possible revenue streams. Were right back to square one here MNN. The Coyotes provide a guaranteed 41 event dates, that building built for NHL hockey, their looking at a White Elephant if they leave, and absolutely no way does SMG or anyone else replace those 41 dates with 41+++ concerts & events anytime soon. So you tell me? Is the city engaging in a form Machiavellian manipulation in turning the tables & forcing IA to sit down & renegotiate or have they privately decided to evict, merely putting up a pretense? This whole RFP dealeo a blind, PR campaign to force IA & the NHL to renegotiate a fair & equitable deal.

 

[Killion]

I don't care what you guys say, I'm still buying my Coyotes license plate on Monday.

Why the Hell not? Id say theres probably a better than 50% chance that a deal does get done between the City & the Coyotes. We could see a new and as yet unknown majority owner entering the scene, LeBlanc stepping back if not out of the picture altogether which I think would be very very helpful indeed, any number of possibilities. With Dallas rebounding nicely & Vegas on the horizon, the already pre-existing rivalry with LA, with whats been sunk in terms of costs, time & energy in Arizona, it really would be a shame to lose it, let it go now in particular.

 

[Roadrage]

As pleasant (?) as that sentiment is, do you really think Coyotes sweaters will be collectors' items like Whaler or Nordiques jerseys are?

I do have a Gretzky-autographed Coyotes jersey (a STH "perk" a few years ago, if you can believe that) that I can use to line our catbox, though.

You're probably right about the sweaters. I doubt the Thrasher sweaters are coveted. On the other hand, I do have both Whaler and Nord's jersey's.

 

[MNNumbers]

Condensed your post with careful edits so integrity of content & context retained.....

A) Its going to take time for the smoke to clear, Glendale blowing things up, IceArizona rather than helping their cause adding even more smoke & haze with round after round of ineffective volleys from the Lawsuit, Media Blitz & Recall Campaigns.... In voiding the Lease the COG now has the upper hand & leverage in dealing with IA/NHL in crafting a new long~term Lease Agreement, something they had but never optimized back in 2013 when they floated the RFP for the same reason; to try & get some leverage, gain a foot up on IA. Ultimately though as we know essentially cratering, never using it. In considering both sides of this situation, I would suggest it is possible that the COG is in fact engaged in a disinformation campaign themselves, essentially pulling the same stunt they did in 2013 with the RFP only this time using it to really turn the screws on IA & secure an equitable long-term agreement.

C) And yes, it does appear the COG at least from reading inbetween the lines appears to want to retain the Coyotes but it doesnt wanna have much to do with IA, certainly not as the Arena Managers, certainly not at $15M, no performance clause, no transparency & so on. Unfortunately for Glendale they cant have their cake & eat it too. In todays NHL, the business model (with the exception of the Islanders) requires that management of the facility be enjoined to the franchise, simply cannot survive without controlling & capturing all possible revenue streams. Were right back to square one here MNN. The Coyotes provide a guaranteed 41 event dates, that building built for NHL hockey, their looking at a White Elephant if they leave, and absolutely no way does SMG or anyone else replace those 41 dates with 41+++ concerts & events anytime soon. So you tell me? Is the city engaging in a form Machiavellian manipulation in turning the tables & forcing IA to sit down & renegotiate or have they privately decided to evict, merely putting up a pretense? This whole RFP dealeo a blind, PR campaign to force IA & the NHL to renegotiate a fair & equitable deal.

Deleted the 2nd part, here, because it's not really important for the discussion. The main point of that was that the vote to cancel the lease, coupled with a rumored (true or not, makes no difference, really) attempt at relocation, left the team with literally no where to play unless they renegotiated the CoG.

As for the rest, I see your point. And, I very much agree. The place was built for hockey. But the place wasn't built to cause huge negative cash flow every year to get it.

I may be disagreeing with you Killion, but it looks to me like this....

No way can IA or any owner of the team play there without highly advantageous Arena Management terms.

City has never said anything about renegotiating with IA/Coyotes. It's always been IA talking about that. To me, this fits my narrative about a smoke screen to cover a lame duck year.

No real owner willing to play under equitable management terms could be found 2 years ago. What's different now? In fact, Jamison couldn't get investors when his lease with the city WAS really good.

Therefore, I can only conclude the following:
1) IF (and a big IF) CoG and IA actually negotiate, they will not be able to come to mutually agreeable terms, similar to Burke and Gluckstern not being able to come to terms with Minneapolis.
2) CoG will contract with SMG to manage the arena starting next July.
3) IA/Coyotes and CoG will negotiate quietly after the announcement about SMG is made.
4) IA/Coyotes will buy themselves out of year 2 of the current AMULA.
5) Relocation for 2016.
6) CoG will have an arena with about 30 dates instead of 55, but their financial status on said arena will be better than if they had 55 dates, with the hockey team dominating the revenues.

Now, I know that's a stretch. But it's the only way I can see to cover everything that's happened.

 

[Llama19]

...Therefore, I can only conclude the following:

1) IF (and a big IF) CoG and IA actually negotiate, they will not be able to come to mutually agreeable terms, similar to Burke and Gluckstern not being able to come to terms with Minneapolis.
2) CoG will contract with SMG to manage the arena starting next July.
3) IA/Coyotes and CoG will negotiate quietly after the announcement about SMG is made.
4) IA/Coyotes will buy themselves out of year 2 of the current AMULA.
5) Relocation for 2016.
6) CoG will have an arena with about 30 dates instead of 55, but their financial status on said arena will be better than if they had 55 dates, with the hockey team dominating the revenues.

Now, I know that's a stretch. But it's the only way I can see to cover everything that's happened.

Very nice summary...

"Never go into strange places on a falling tide without a pilot."
- Thomas Gibson Bowles

 

[Killion]

Now, I know that's a stretch. But it's the only way I can see to cover everything that's happened.

Yeah, all good points, possibilities. Hard not to imagine any negotiations between the City & IceArizona
would be about as warm and hospitable as Wellington was in dealing with Napolean after Waterloo.

 

[Major4Boarding]

Spoke with a member of Staff about two weeks ago. Eluded this was forthcoming, as much as they could disclose

My question was, seeing how the RFP's are less than 3 years old, was there a shelf life on those RFPs? Will the City dust off the previous RFP's, put out RFI's (addendums) to the previous RFP's, or just initiate the process all over again?

They were rather candid and very polite. Basically, the City can decide to either pick up the previous RFP responses or do the whole process over again.

 

[Fenway]

continue here
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1950465