Phoenix CI: TeA.R.S. for FeA.R.S.

kdb209 · Jun 11, 2015

Jumptheshark · Jun 11, 2015

with the threat of lawsuits flying--this will over shadow the cup

OthmarAmmann · Jun 11, 2015

Cool. Hopefully we get to see the audit as a result.

CGG · Jun 11, 2015

So, if the Coyotes do leave, then sue for damages, they'd actually have to demonstrate that there are damages, correct? If they go from losing $25 million in Glendale to losing $10 million next year in Seattle, not to mention an increase in franchise value, how's the lawsuit going to play out?

madhi19 · Jun 11, 2015

CGG said:
So, if the Coyotes do leave, then sue for damages, they'd actually have to demonstrate that there are damages, correct? If they go from losing $25 million in Glendale to losing $10 million next year in Seattle, not to mention an increase in franchise value, how's the lawsuit going to play out?

In this case it would not be the Coyotes suing but IA. They sell the franchise, then claim that the move by Glendale hurt their closing price.

Dave is a killer · Jun 11, 2015

jumptheshark said:
with the threat of lawsuits flying--this will over shadow the cup

You sure it'll over shadow the Final?

LeafShark · Jun 11, 2015

Downtown Phoenix only happens if they can get a $15 million subsidy out of it. Assuming it is a better location despite not being built for hockey, it isn't $15 million better. By some estimates, they only make $40 million before revenue sharing and subsidy.

JimAnchower · Jun 11, 2015

The big questions to me in all of this is why now? I don't suppose that the CoG only recently discovered the escape route, so they must have held this in their back pocket for a while. Is it a power play to force the NHL into a fast decision they may not like because scheduling and everything else needs to be done in short order for next year? Courts don't tend to move quickly, certainly not on a timeline the Coyotes/NHL would like.

Acesolid · Jun 11, 2015

JimAnchower said:
The big questions to me in all of this is why now? I don't suppose that the CoG only recently discovered the escape route, so they must have held this in their back pocket for a while. Is it a power play to force the NHL into a fast decision they may not like because scheduling and everything else needs to be done in short order for next year? Courts don't tend to move quickly, certainly not on a timeline the Coyotes/NHL would like.

I think they wanted to do it as soon as possible. But past the date when (in their opinion) it's possible to relocate the team.

Thus they have all the leverage possible for negociation!

Evil Doctor · Jun 11, 2015

Joe T Choker said:
You sure it'll over shadow the Final?

There's a Final?

Also: A new thread already? Man that takes me back to the heady days of 2009.

Loved Gary Bettman channelling his inner Sepp Blatter...

cbcwpg · Jun 11, 2015

http://www.yourwestvalley.com/glendale/article_df5e443a-0fe8-11e5-ad44-c3513b923316.html

So by this statement it looks like it was more than just one person involved.

â€œThe facts support a conclusion that this state law was violated when former employees who now work for the Coyotes also heavily influenced and quietly assisted in the final negotiations of the contract,â€ said City Attorney Michael Bailey.

****

On this...

â€œThe damage to the Coyotes brand, and the NHL will be irreparable Youâ€™re making a terrible, terrible mistake,â€ Woods told the council prior to its vote.

Meaningless threats. I would like Woods to prove this beyond any doubt. Not to knock the Coyotes and the NHL, but really... if the Coyotes were to leave, the world will have forgotten the team was ever in Glendale two weeks after they move. Other than people who would want the team to move to their city, the vast majority of people don't care.

Are businesses that have sponsorship deals with the NHL going to cancel them because the Coyotes are no more? No. NBC themselves said during their last TV negotiation with the NHL that the team leaving Glendale would have no effect on the contract. Not having the Coyotes in Glendale really means nothing to the overall perception of the NHL in the public's eye IMO. To me, trying to keep the team in Glendale has been more of an embarrassment to the NHL then if they did leave.

Flukeshot · Jun 11, 2015

Feels like we're now in the final 12 months of the Coyotes life.

Whileee · Jun 11, 2015

LeBlanc has said publicly that the Coyotes are on track for profitability within the next few years.

If that's the case, then he should be thanking Glendale for putting up all of the money to carry the Coyotes through the dark and difficult days and agree to renegotiate the arena management contract.

IA and Bettman badly misjudged the political dimensions in Glendale.

The decision to go nuclear with a lawsuit pretty much means that IA and the NHL have decided not to try to work things out in Glendale, and just want to leave even more scorched earth behind when they relocate.

No Fun Shogun · Jun 11, 2015

I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is overshadowing the Cup, all due respect to Yotes fans, fans in markets that want a team, and BoHers, but have to imagine that Bettman's absolutely livid right now. He does not like anything stepping on the SCF's toes and serving as a distraction while it's going on. Granted, I'm sure that anger's all directed at the city, not the ownership, as they were seemingly blindsided by this as well.

Hard to believe that it's only been a little over a day since we went from "we have a few years before we need to worry about the Yotes potentially relocating" to ".... are the Yotes relocating in the next couple of weeks?"

Here's to another rapid 1,000, I suppose...

Acesolid · Jun 11, 2015

Flukeshot said:
Feels like we're now in the final 12 months of the Coyotes life.

Maybe. But you could have said that at any time during the last 8 years and most people would have agreed!

Hahahaha!

Man, this is amazing. I missed the yearly summer Coyotes drama so much last summer. I'm so glad it's back. I cant wait to see how Bettman will once again pull a Houdini and save the Coyotes at the last second this time! Or see him fail. Either way it'll be great entertainment!

madhi19 · Jun 11, 2015

No Fun Shogun said:
I wouldn't go so far as to say that this is overshadowing the Cup, all due respect to Yotes fans, fans in markets that want a team, and BoHers, but have to imagine that Bettman's absolutely livid right now. He does not like anything stepping on the SCF's toes and serving as a distraction while it's going on. Granted, I'm sure that anger's all directed at the city, not the ownership, as they were seemingly blindsided by this as well.

Hard to believe that it's only been a little over a day since we went from "we have a few years before we need to worry about the Yotes potentially relocating" to ".... are the Yotes relocating in the next couple of weeks?"

Here's to another rapid 1,000, I suppose...

At least they had a big break between game four, and five next Saturday. And the cup won't be won until game six or seven. So they got a small window to do something, and wait for this whole thing to blow over.

hisgirlfriday · Jun 11, 2015

Can the Coyotes make their loan payments without the money from COG? And where are they getting the money to afford to sue Glendale? The NHL?

cbcwpg · Jun 11, 2015

There is a brain dead simple way to solve this problem.

Get IA to go to the CoG and agree to cut the AMF by half. Do that and the CoG would most likely agree, and everyone will be happy.

But it will never happen. Why you ask? Because, the very fact that IA refuses to re-negotiate the agreement means that every dime of the $15MM is required. IA needs the $15MM and most likely even more if they could get it. This team is not even close to being financially viable without a subsidy.

$25MM in ticket revenue last season when the league average is $45MM....

madhi19 · Jun 11, 2015

cbcwpg said:
There is a brain dead simple way to solve this problem.

Get IA to go to the CoG and agree to cut the AMF by half. Do that and the CoG would most likely agree, and everyone will be happy.

But it will never happen. Why you ask? Because, the very fact that IA refuses to re-negotiate the agreement means that every dime of the $15MM is required. IA needs the $15MM and most likely even more if they could get it. This team is not even close to being financially viable without a subsidy.

$25MM in ticket revenue last season when the league average is $45MM....

They already lost over $30MM, and it with the AMF at $15MM. If they cut it to $7.5 until the out clause kick in they lose a additional $22.5MM. On top of what they lose already, and on top of the $15MM they have to pay Glendale to use the out clause. This is why they can't renegotiate, they need all the cents of the AMF.

Ugmo · Jun 11, 2015

I don't understand why Ice Age is so determined to stay in Glendale. Aren't they losing money hand over fist even with the massive subsidy? So everyone is losing money on this deal - what incentive do any of them have to stay in Glendale?

King_Stannis · Jun 11, 2015

cbcwpg said:
There is a brain dead simple way to solve this problem.

Get IA to go to the CoG and agree to cut the AMF by half. Do that and the CoG would most likely agree, and everyone will be happy.

But it will never happen. Why you ask? Because, the very fact that IA refuses to re-negotiate the agreement means that every dime of the $15MM is required. IA needs the $15MM and most likely even more if they could get it. This team is not even close to being financially viable without a subsidy.

$25MM in ticket revenue last season when the league average is $45MM....

That's a simple and very precise analysis. I tend to agree.

King_Stannis · Jun 11, 2015

Ugmo said:
I don't understand why Ice Age is so determined to stay in Glendale. Aren't they losing money hand over fist even with the massive subsidy? So everyone is losing money on this deal - what incentive do any of them have to stay in Glendale?

If they didn't at least try to fight to stay there people would start re-examining everything they've said in the past about how great Glendale is. At this point it's also all about keeping up appearances.

But trust me, they're probably looking forward to that payday when they get completely bought out.

madhi19 · Jun 11, 2015

Ugmo said:
I don't understand why Ice Age is so determined to stay in Glendale. Aren't they losing money hand over fist even with the massive subsidy? So everyone is losing money on this deal - what incentive do any of them have to stay in Glendale?

It probably all posturing, and shifting the blame. In private these guys are baffled that they might have saved $50MM+.

cbcwpg · Jun 11, 2015

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/arizona-coyotes-threaten-glendale-with-massive-lawsuit/

Coyotes to file $200M lawsuit against Glendale

Contains some interesting graphs, a picture of LeBlanc waving his finger, and the Bettman interview during last nights hockey game.

JimAnchower · Jun 11, 2015

hisgirlfriday said:
Can the Coyotes make their loan payments without the money from COG? And where are they getting the money to afford to sue Glendale? The NHL?

I don't think there is much doubt the NHL will bankroll it if the Coyotes can't afford it. They have done it in the past, but specific to the AMF being dissolved, they don't want other cities to follow suit, so they will fight this.

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