GDT: philly cane

[CanesFanBudMan]

They won’t be able to get past the bruins or the lightning in the playoffs if they are playing like this

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And….

So?

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that maybe he's disgusted by it.

 

[bleedgreen]

I mean this is great and all- but let's face it: they very nearly blew a 6-2 lead. They basically quit playing after putting up 6.

Lesson learned on how to win though, and we didn’t need to learn the lesson after a loss?

The pp will get a wake up call after this I’m sure. That’s gotta sting giving up shorties like that.

I’m not sure that this team is any better or more prepared for the playoffs this year vs last, but we still have Patches and the deadline.

This team needs to learn how to win tough games. Hanging on to this one was a tough game, though it can also be a sign of weakness in the first place. Either way, better now than later.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Lesson learned on how to win though, and we didn’t need to learn the lesson after a loss?

The pp will get a wake up call after this I’m sure. That’s gotta sting giving up shorties like that.

I’m not sure that this team is any better or more prepared for the playoffs this year vs last, but we still have Patches and the deadline.

IMO, a lot of it will depend on goaltending. We either need Kochetkov to be better than last playoffs, which is not unreasonable since he was basically thrown into the NHL last year where he'll have more NHL time under his belt; or we need Andersen to be healthy, which is not a given.

This team needs to learn how to win tough games. Hanging on to this one was a tough game, though he’s it can also be a sign of weakness in the first place. Either way, better now than later.

Yep. Last year early on the team was rolling over teams. Now, they've had to win a lot of 1 goal games, come from behind, play without key players, have a grueling road trip, win with not so great special teams, etc... All that will help IMO.

 

[hblueridgegal]

Booing such as after AZ appears to be the cure all.

 

[bleedgreen]

IMO, a lot of it will depend on goaltending. We either need Kochetkov to be better than last playoffs, which is not unreasonable since he was basically thrown into the NHL last year where he'll have more NHL time under his belt; or we need Andersen to be healthy, which is not a given.



Yep. Last year early on the team was rolling over teams. Now, they've had to win a lot of 1 goal games, come from behind, play without key players, have a grueling road trip, win with not so great special teams, etc... All that will help IMO.

One thing I’ve found interesting since last year is the checking line. Last year it was one of the best in the league, and I had never seen anything like it. To me it was a huge disappointment when they didn’t nearly stand out as much in the playoffs with extended grinding shifts. Likely due to everyone playing that style in the playoffs and being more prepared, teams moved the puck away from them quicker and didn’t get themselves pinned.

This year we lost Nino and overall Fast hasn’t been quite the same, but Martinook is giving the season of his life. I still feel like it’s a drop off from last years perfection, at the same time still top notch. The Philly broadcast called them the best checking unit in the league. I find that they really expose how deep teams are defensively. If that line dominates you there’s likely some core issues, another reason why they weren’t quite as effective post season maybe.

Anyways, agreed that that it’ll come down to goaltending of course. I’m still concerned people can “figure out” Koochie and leaning on him for the playoffs will be interesting if Freddie isn’t coming back. If that’s the case with Freddie I could see us picking up a fourth goalie at the deadline, as ridiculous as it sounds.

 

[Svechhammer]

Lesson learned on how to win though, and we didn’t need to learn the lesson after a loss?

The pp will get a wake up call after this I’m sure. That’s gotta sting giving up shorties like that.

I’m not sure that this team is any better or more prepared for the playoffs this year vs last, but we still have Patches and the deadline.

This team needs to learn how to win tough games. Hanging on to this one was a tough game, though it can also be a sign of weakness in the first place. Either way, better now than later.

I agree with the overall message but at this point I have no hope that the PP will be fixed unless the front office forces Brindy to do something. The wake up call should have been after the playoffs last year and if not then, the atrocious start to this year. Giving up multiple shorties against a terrible team to nearly blow a 4 goal 3rd period lead is the kind of result our PP efforts have been building to for a while and it's really damning to the organization that it has not been addressed, yet.

This is a wake up call, but with their current coaching I just don't think they have the scheme to do anything about it. The PP has been broken for years, this is learned behavior.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I was just curious how Martinook-Staal-Fast compared to Nino-Staal-Fast to date from a statistical standpoint as I agree with Bleed's statement that it looks as if they are close to last year's line, but with a little drop off.

Last year for Nino-Staal-Fast as a line:
CF%: 59.4%
SF/60: 62.1
SA/60: 42.4
xG%: 61.6%
xGF/60: 3.29
xGA/60: 2.05
GF%: 72.3%
GF/60: 3.82
GA/60: 1.46

Total individual production / 82 games
Staal: 18G, 38 P (per 82 games)
Nino: 26G, 48P (per 82 games)
Fast: 14G, 34P

This year for Martinook-Staal-Fast as a line:
CF%: 61.8%
SF/60: 66.7
SA/60: 41.1
xG%: 61.6%
xGF/60: 3.36
xGA/60: 3.1
GF%: 68%
GF/60: 3.36
GA/60: 1.58

Total production / 82 games:

Staal: 24G, 41P (per 82 games)
Martinook: 19G, 43P (per 82 games)
Fast: 10G, 23P (per 82 games)

All in all, the data suggests that the line is performing very similar to last year's line but scoring a little less (both individual and on-ice). Fast is a little off production wise, but the question is if Martinook can continue his level of play, or at least not drop off too much.

 

[Negan4Coach]

So?

Sigh. Never mind. I too enjoy the resiliency of a win after giving up two back to back shorties.

 

[Rick Davis]

One glaring thing that needs to be addressed at the trade deadline is finding a PP QB for the second unit. As much as I love Pesce man he is not that guy. Or could Coghlan grow into that role by playoff time?

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Not playing unless he felt absolutely 100% was already a knock on him during his time in Toronto.

I mean, if I want anyone on the team feeling 100% when they play it’s the goalie.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I agree with the overall message but at this point I have no hope that the PP will be fixed unless the front office forces Brindy to do something. The wake up call should have been after the playoffs last year and if not then, the atrocious start to this year. Giving up multiple shorties against a terrible team to nearly blow a 4 goal 3rd period lead is the kind of result our PP efforts have been building to for a while and it's really damning to the organization that it has not been addressed, yet.

This is a wake up call, but with their current coaching I just don't think they have the scheme to do anything about it. The PP has been broken for years, this is learned behavior.

It makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would be a dominant 200ft team at 5v5, relentlessly playing the “right way” and coming in waves.

It also makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would have a dominant penalty kill, both stifling the opponent’s PP and turning defense into offense.

It also makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would lack the creativity to succeed on the PP in today’s NHL.

He needs to adjust. The way Rod liked to play as a player and the way he’s in turning coaching the team to play works wonders at 5v5 and on the PK. He needs to adjust to free up his skilled players on the PP to be as creative as they are on the rush at 5v5. Watching Svech’s goal at 5v5 last night, using his speed weaving with Necas and firing a decisive, surprising shot, then comparing that to watching Necas and Burns stand still and pass the puck to each other for a minute fifteen to start each PP, is a stark contrast, and one that I would guess comes from an “old school” approach to the PP that needs to be revisited.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Sigh. Never mind. I too enjoy the resiliency of a win after giving up two back to back shorties.

If your point is "they f***ed up" then yes, they obviously f***ed up. They f*** up every game. The goal, however, is to f*** up less than the other team, and they have achieved that goal pretty consistently for quite a while now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would be a dominant 200ft team at 5v5, relentlessly playing the “right way” and coming in waves.

It also makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would have a dominant penalty kill, both stifling the opponent’s PP and turning defense into offense.

It also makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would lack the creativity to succeed on the PP in today’s NHL.

He needs to adjust.

I agree with all of this. Will add though that for the last 3 season's combined, the Carolina Hurricanes have had the 5th best PP in the NHL. The 4 teams better?

Edmonton (McDavid/Drai)
ST. Louis (similar skill as Carolina IMO. They are down to 12th this season)
Toronto (Matthews, Marner)
TBL (Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, Hedman).

Not making excuses, only saying that the team has had regular season success while not having the elite skill level of the top PP teams so a coach might be inclined to think: "It's working"

That said, the Playoffs and this season the PP has clearly struggled so adjustments are warranted.

The way Rod liked to play as a player and the way he’s in turning coaching the team to play works wonders at 5v5 and on the PK. He needs to adjust to free up his skilled players on the PP to be as creative as they are on the rush at 5v5. Watching Svech’s goal at 5v5 last night, using his speed weaving with Necas and firing a decisive, surprising shot, then comparing that to watching Necas and Burns stand still and pass the puck to each other for a minute fifteen to start each PP, is a stark contrast, and one that I would guess comes from an “old school” approach to the PP that needs to be revisited.

Agree. I'd like to see what STL does and why they are so successful. Is it just that a guy like Tarasenko is a better sniper? Do the move the puck better? Do they have a better net front with hands? etc...

Either way, a fresh look would be nice.

 

[Derailed75]

I mean this is great and all- but let's face it: they very nearly blew a 6-2 lead. They basically quit playing after putting up 6.

2 points is 2 points they built the lead and held on. Not one single soul will give a damn about the 3 late goals given up come April

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The other question is how many adjustments are made based on available personnel, particularly the back end. Dougie was a great passer and had a very good shot. TDA wasn't as good of a passer (IMO), but he thought the game on the PP quicker so he didn't hold onto it very long at all unless the play warranted him holding on to it. He was excellent at the quick passes. Burns is more like Dougie, although a bit better offensively, but he isn't as good of a passer nor is he as good with the puck. Bobbles the puck more than either Hamilton and TDA.

Early on, it almost seems like the Canes are deferring to Burns more than they need to, but I could be wrong on that.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

I agree with all of this. Will add though that for the last 3 season's combined, the Carolina Hurricanes have had the 5th best PP in the NHL. The 4 teams better?

Edmonton (McDavid/Drai)
ST. Louis (similar skill as Carolina IMO. They are down to 12th this season)
Toronto (Matthews, Marner)
TBL (Stamkos, Kucherov, Point, Hedman).

Not making excuses, only saying that the team has had regular season success while not having the elite skill level of the top PP teams so a coach might be inclined to think: "It's working"

That said, the Playoffs and this season the PP has clearly struggled so adjustments are warranted.


Agree. I'd like to see what STL does and why they are so successful. Is it just that a guy like Tarasenko is a better sniper? Do the move the puck better? Do they have a better net front with hands? etc...

Either way, a fresh look would be nice.

It’s weird to me that Brind’Amour in multiple interviews has said something along the lines of “the disciplined structure is for the defensive and neutral zones, once you’ve got the puck in the ozone it’s ok to be creative” and then constraining that with the stationary play we see on the PP game in and game out. I don’t watch STL all that much, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s less about the talent itself and more about the freedom to go make plays and do stuff. Yeah, Tarasenko is a great scorer. And because of that, I’d be surprised if he’s just sitting at the left halfwall passing it back and forth with Justin Faulk for a minute at a time. I imagine he’s constantly moving, finding soft spots in the defense, etc. You know, all the stuff we do at 5v5. It’s honestly confusing to me.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

The other question is how many adjustments are made based on available personnel, particularly the back end. Dougie was a great passer and had a very good shot. TDA wasn't as good of a passer (IMO), but he thought the game on the PP quicker so he didn't hold onto it very long at all unless the play warranted him holding on to it. He was excellent at the quick passes. Burns is more like Dougie, although a bit better offensively, but he isn't as good of a passer nor is he as good with the puck. Bobbles the puck more than either Hamilton and TDA.

Early on, it almost seems like the Canes are deferring to Burns more than they need to, but I could be wrong on that.

Interesting thought. I could see why they’d think Burns’s shot would pair so well with a guy like Noesen on PP1. And I think I agree with that. But that needs to be an option, not the option. The more the other 3 guys on the ice become a threat, the more valuable an elite point shot with a strong net front becomes.

 

[mikeyfan]

The problem with our PP, IMO, is we are standing around, not much rotation with the forwards. Each player has a territory and they pass the puck around the perimeter or through the center hoping to connect instead of the players skating swapping places until an open shot opens

 

[Stickpucker]

One glaring thing that needs to be addressed at the trade deadline is finding a PP QB for the second unit. As much as I love Pesce man he is not that guy. Or could Coghlan grow into that role by playoff time?

I think the borg pinned Coghlan to be that guy but Rod doesn't trust him and has no interest in coaching him up over the course of the season.

 

[Stickpucker]

It makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would be a dominant 200ft team at 5v5, relentlessly playing the “right way” and coming in waves.

It also makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would have a dominant penalty kill, both stifling the opponent’s PP and turning defense into offense.

It also makes perfect logical sense that a team coached by Rod Brind’Amour would lack the creativity to succeed on the PP in today’s NHL.

He needs to adjust. The way Rod liked to play as a player and the way he’s in turning coaching the team to play works wonders at 5v5 and on the PK. He needs to adjust to free up his skilled players on the PP to be as creative as they are on the rush at 5v5. Watching Svech’s goal at 5v5 last night, using his speed weaving with Necas and firing a decisive, surprising shot, then comparing that to watching Necas and Burns stand still and pass the puck to each other for a minute fifteen to start each PP, is a stark contrast, and one that I would guess comes from an “old school” approach to the PP that needs to be revisited.

Good points. A good leader recognizes his weaknesses and surrounds themselves with people who have different strengths.

Necas e-w game has been really effective. Aho used to have more of a e-w game where he'd circle the wagons and look for a pass. Now he's more n-s looking to score on the rush but his move doesn't work or uses his shot.

Rod is a great coach no doubt but it would be nice to see a wee bit more flexibility from him but that's really nitpicking at this point. It's like saying your supermodel wife who can cook has a big pinky toe.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think the borg pinned Coghlan to be that guy but Rod doesn't trust him and has no interest in coaching him up over the course of the season.

I think the problem is also that Chatfield has looked better so it's hard to force his way into the line-up on the right side so the option is CDH on his natural side or Coghlan on his off-hand side.

I've been critical of the 3rd pairing but do think they've gotten better and I'm not sure I'd put Coghlan in the line-up over either of those two right now.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Either way, a fresh look would be nice.

Theoretically, that's what Patches is for, right?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Theoretically, that's what Patches is for, right?

That's a good point. The dynamic will certainly change with him added.

 

[bleedgreen]

It’ll change as he’s a shooter, but he’s also not the quickest fella so it could also amplify the standing around look. When I watch the other teams broadcasts it’s the one thing they mention as a negative. Such a great team with tons of flow and movement…yet so stationary and stagnant on the pp.