Philly 1995 -- Could they have won it all?

[The Panther]

The saga of Philadelphia's fine season + playoff run in 1997, followed by their being swept by Detroit in the Finals, is well-documented on this forum. But how about Philly in 1995, the 'Work-stoppage' season of only 48 games + playoffs? Philly were all the way to the Conference series against Jersey, and gave them a good run. Had they made it through that, they'd have faced Detroit two years earlier than they actually did.

To recap: Philly in 1995 had their first successful season in years. They were a (mostly) young team on the rise. Lindros tied for the scoring lead and won the Hart trophy. After stumbling through the first eleven games, they went 25-9-3 the rest of the way! Late in the season, they had a 9-game winning streak, the ninth of which was over New Jersey.

Anyway, in the playoffs, Philly took down both Buffalo and the Rangers rather easily, including a sweep of New York (the defending champs, no less!). With Lindros missing a few games to injury (I guess...?), Brind'amour was the star of the Buffalo series, with 8 points, and Hextall went the distance in net with a (then excellent) .918 save-percentage.

In the New York series, Renberg scored the most points, but all the Flyers looked really good statistically -- New York looked pretty awful (the Messier, Graves, Verbeek line was -7 in the series!). Mike Richter had a woeful .835 save percentage and Hextall, again, did the job for Philly with a .916 and a 4-0 record.

At this stage, Philly's season was a huge success no matter what else happened. They'd won the division after not making the playoffs for years. And now they were in the Conference series against New Jersey -- a team that had looked better the year before than in '95, but had themselves taken down Boston and Pittsburgh rather easily.

I hadn't remembered, until looking at the summaries today, how close Philly was in this series. They really could have taken out Jersey and been in the Finals had a couple of things gone their way at critical moments. Jersey won the first two games in Philly, and then (weirdly) Philly won the next two games in Jersey. So, it was a best out of three, with two of three games in Philadelphia. But it seems like from that point, Jersey just applied the full-on trap and ground the Flyers top players down. Claude Lemieux scored the winner with 45 seconds left in game five in Philly, and then finally New Jersey wrapped it up on home-ice in game six with a 4-2 win. Philly was getting only 18-19 shots on goal in the latter games in the series, which makes me suspect New Jersey was in full trap-mode.

Anyway, that's quite a remarkable run for the '95 Flyers, which seems not often remembered today.


Anyone remember this series against New Jersey? Was it indeed quite close? Could Philadelphia have won it?

Then, what if Philly had made it to the Finals. Could they actually have won the Cup in '95?

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[TheDevilMadeMe]

Lindros would have had to figure out Scott Stevens to have a chance in 1995, something he never did during their subsequent half decade rivalry.

I believe Stevens' most common partner in the series was Ken Daneyko (not a usual occurance) as Lemaire went for max size and strength against the Legion of Doom.

 

[The Panther]

Lindros would have had to figure out Scott Stevens to have a chance in 1995, something he never did during their subsequent half decade rivalry.

Well, Lindros was Philly's top-scorer in the '95 series, albeit with 5 points in 6 games (+1). As Philadelphia scored only 14 goals in six games, it would appear that the entire team was "Stevens'd", not only Lindros (Brind'amour, by comparison, had three points, and went -5).

In Lindros's entire Philadelphia career vs. Stevens & New Jersey (I mean, in regular season) he played 30 games and scored 35 points (+2). As you would expect, it's a bit lower than his overall point-production during these years, but it's hardly poor, especially as Jersey were a top defensive team (in 1998-99, Lindros scored 10 points in four games against Jersey). I would guess they each got the best of each other in about even degrees...

 

[Staniowski]

I think Philly would probably have beaten the Wings if they got by Jersey. Detroit wasn't as strong defensively in '95 as they were in subsequent years. Lindros was better than anybody on the Wings, although Fedorov was very, very good.

The Devils faced 4 of the top teams in the NHL in those playoffs, and my remembrance is that Philly gave them their toughest test. But New Jersey was too strong for everybody. Brodeur was barely tested at all in some of those games. New Jersey's forwards were the key to their success.

 

[bobholly39]

I don't know but it's really weird that 3 of the top 4 threads on this forum this morning are asking in turn about the 95, 96 and 97 cup finals.

 

[mja]

The problem with those Flyers squads was always lack of depth. They had 3 or 4 great forwards and 1 great defenseman, but after that there was a lot of filler, and Ron Hextall, while one of my favorite all time players, was a relic of the pre-butterfly era. Then, just as they started getting some of that much needed depth in the lineup, the concussions started and the plot was lost.

Edit: And yeah, Lindros took a puck to the eye that cost him the last couple of games of the season (and very likely the Art Ross trophy) as well as the beginning of the Buffalo series.

 

[overg]

I think Philly would probably have beaten the Wings if they got by Jersey. Detroit wasn't as strong defensively in '95 as they were in subsequent years. Lindros was better than anybody on the Wings, although Fedorov was very, very good.

I'm not so sure the Flyers beat the Wings, who were a better defensive team than you're giving them credit for. That was in fact the first year they started playing the left-wing lock (Barry Smith brought it back over with him from Europe, where he coached during the lockout), and they were quite successful with it.

The Wings' downfall that year was not being mentally prepared to play a team with an even better defensive system than their own. I don't think the Flyers present the same problem as the Devils in that respect. And just like in '97, the Wings would have had a lot more talent spread throughout the lineup than the Flyers had. It probably would have been a closer series than '97, as the Wings' would not have had the huge mental edge over Flyers. But I still think the Wings take it.

 

[Staniowski]

I'm not so sure the Flyers beat the Wings, who were a better defensive team than you're giving them credit for. That was in fact the first year they started playing the left-wing lock (Barry Smith brought it back over with him from Europe, where he coached during the lockout), and they were quite successful with it.

The Wings' downfall that year was not being mentally prepared to play a team with an even better defensive system than their own. I don't think the Flyers present the same problem as the Devils in that respect. And just like in '97, the Wings would have had a lot more talent spread throughout the lineup than the Flyers had. It probably would have been a closer series than '97, as the Wings' would not have had the huge mental edge over Flyers. But I still think the Wings take it.

I wasn't suggesting the Wings were weak defensively - they weren't. But they were even stronger defensively after '95. I think the Devils had a significant effect on Bowman and the Wings (and the rest of the NHL too). Bowman said the most embarrassed he was in his entire career was when Jersey was up 5 -0 in game 3 of that series.

I agree Detroit was deeper, and I wouldn't say with a lot of confidence that Philly would beat them. But I would pick Philly to win.

 

[streitz]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.


Dangerous way to play with a glass jaw.

 

[Bustedprospect]

I think i agree with this. The shortened season was their best chance possible. Renberg was also hurt after this season and not the same player and while the Legion was still great it wasn't the same as before it was turning into a duo. Detroit also was more stacked in my opinion in 97.

 

[JackSlater]

Philadelphia vs Detroit in the finals would have been interesting. I think that it would have been closer than was the case in 1997, mainly because Detroit was less well equipped to handle the Lindros line as Lidstrom was a step behind where he was in 1997, Murphy wasn't there and Coffey would have received significant minutes on the blueline.

 

[frisco]

Claude Lemieux scored the winner with 45 seconds left in game five in Philly, and then finally New Jersey wrapped it up on home-ice in game six with a 4-2 win. Philly was getting only 18-19 shots on goal in the latter games in the series, which makes me suspect New Jersey was in full trap-mode.

The Lemieux goal was the backbreaker. Just a half slapper from the boards just inside the blueline at the most crucial time. Hextall was brutal.



My Best-Carey

 

[Michael Farkas]

Wow, I didn't even recall that goal. Bad goals at bad times lose games and series though...woof...

 

[Big Phil]

I think the Flyers lose to the Red Wings. Plus, they looked awful against New Jersey. I was a big Lindros fan at this time so I was cheering for the Flyers to win so I was watching it closely. It was frustrating. They just couldn't muster chances up. They were too green to win. Sort of like, say, the 2008 Pens. But with a worse goalie.

 

[Legionnaire11]

As a young Flyers fan in Philly at the time, this series cemented my hatred of the Devil's for quite a long time. I actually mostly like them now, but in the 90's I wished horrible things on their players and facility.

But something not many people know, is that regardless of whether the Flyers could have beaten Detroit that year, if they had beaten New Jersey it likely changes the late 90's expansion scenario as without that Cup and subsequent boost in interest, it seemed that the Devils were destined for relocation to Nashville. Of course they stayed put and two years later Nashville was awarded the Predators expansion. But had the Devils ended up here, I believe that one of Houston or Indianapolis would have been given an expansion team since they were the two biggest bidders who missed out on that round.

 

[c9777666]

I think Detroit would have had a good chance against Philly in 1995 for this simple reason: No Trap.

Considering how well the Devils executed their strategy that year, you think the Wings would have rather taken their chances against a team that did not play that style?

The Wings had 35 shots the first 2 game vs. New Jersey- I doubt Philly would have done that.

 

[billybudd]

Did they have any depth? I remember that as a top-heavy club, though I guess my memory could be playing tricks on me.

 

[streitz]

Did they have any depth? I remember that as a top-heavy club, though I guess my memory could be playing tricks on me.

Philadelphia Flyers 1994-95 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com



Just Brind'amour by the looks of it on forward.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Kevin Dineen was a very good player. Though, that might have been around the time his game suffered due to a diagnosis of Crohn's Disease...I forget exactly when that was...

 

[streitz]

Kevin Dineen was a very good player. Though, that might have been around the time his game suffered due to a diagnosis of Crohn's Disease...I forget exactly when that was...

Wasn't Dineen older and washed up by then? My biggest memory of him is him being one of the only whalers who could generate offense vs the habs in those 80's series.




Edit- looking it up he's actually not as old as I thought he was and played for like 8 years after 95.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Did they have any depth? I remember that as a top-heavy club, though I guess my memory could be playing tricks on me.

Yes, that was Philly's biggest problem. Slow down their top line, and the rest of the team was Brind'amour and not all that much else.

That's the biggest reason why Philly had such a poor record vs NJ during the Lindros era - NJ was built to defeat top heavy teams.

 

[DDRhockey]

Live by the sword, die by the sword.


Dangerous way to play with a glass jaw.

Dirty play there. This board would erupt in anger if this was.today

 

[FerrisRox]

Then, what if Philly had made it to the Finals. Could they actually have won the Cup in '95?

This team had zero depth - which is expected so soon after gutting the team to acquire Lindros. After line one, it was has beens and never beens. I don't think they could beat Jersey and I definitely think they would lose to the Wings.

 

[jghockey]

The Flyers should have won the Cup in either 1996, 1999, or 2004.

 

[blood gin]

The Devils were just flat out better in every aspect that series. They outshot the Flyers all 6 games and got the better of play all 6 games.

Flyers were lucky they didn't go down 3-0 in the series