Player Discussion Phillip Danault - The Centermania Edition

[Doc McKenna]

Pacioretty 17 goals, Shaw 10 goals

Gallagher 31 goals, Galchenyuk 19 goals

You are being impossible. If he had played with Gallahger, you would have said Gallagher was the best winger, I have no doubt.

Yes that is the point. Gally is our present best winger. So he is still glued to the best winger on the team-IN EACH YEAR as a 1C. Or do you somehow think that Patches 32 goals and 66 points in 71 games wouldn't still be our best winger? Maybe he only scored 17 because he missed almost 1/4 of that season and wasn't getting enough passes? Seems to be doing better now than even on the habs. Helps when you have a center that scores once in a while. Opens up the ice, gives options and assists. How about a centre with more than 13 goals as a best season.

Arguing that having chuck as his winger-while we know he was on the 4th line for part of the season and prefers playing center, and danault missing 30 games means we don't know who he would have played with. But if you want to argue that Drouin was a terrible 1C I won't argue it. Danault getting our other best wingers at the time, Byron scored more than Chuck. Your point? Shaw was centering the third line for many parts of the season, so thats misleading and he wasn't with danault as much as byron was.

 

[Andrei79]

Danault is getting McDavid money.

And unlike McDavid, Danault's EV secondary assists accounts for the largest portion of his production. He even leads the league in them.

But yeah, he's the one running that line offensively.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

It's most definitely been said in some form. Don't really give a shit if you don't believe me, but it's the truth. We also want A LOT BETTER than Gallagher as our best winger. And A LOT BETTER than Chiarot as our best LHD. However, people only bitch about Danault. It's tiring to read the same constant relentless whining about Danault in every f***ing thread and page.

We have no RW better than Gally, so nobody has the feeling that Brendan is playing in front of a better player than him, same for Chiarot as a LD, but we have that feeling with Danault.

We talk a lot about Danault, because some posters think he's a third liner, others think that he's a #2C and we have even fans who believe that he's a #1C... That's why we talk a lot about him.

Gally is a #1RW, nobody will deny that, so we have nothing to argue about.

Chiarot is a fringe top-4, nobody will argue that he's a top-pairing D.

That's why we talk so much about Danault.

 

[blarneylad]

And unlike McDavid, Danault's EV secondary assists accounts for the largest portion of his production. He even leads the league in them.

But yeah, he's the one running that line offensively.

I figured as much but could never find that stat. Can you provide me with a link to that stat line

 

[The Great Weal]

We have no RW better than Gally, so nobody has the feeling that Brendan is playing in front of a better player than him, same for Chiarot as a LD, but we have that feeling with Danault.

We talk a lot about Danault, because some posters think he's a third liner, others think that he's a #2C and we have even fans who believe that he's a #1C... That's why we talk a lot about him.

Gally is a #1RW, nobody will deny that, so we have nothing to argue about.

Chiarot is a fringe top-4, nobody will argue that he's a top-pairing D.

That's why we talk so much about Danault.

You misread, I said winger, not RW for Gally. Danault is the 2C on over half the teams in the league, that essentially means he is a 2C. Now go before you go and cherry pick some teams like the Pens where he isn't the 2nd line center, that doesn't make Malkin a 2C or Danault a 3C. We also don't have anyone better than Danault as our center at the moment, not sure why it's so surprising that our best center is playing the #1 C position. Now of course he shouldn't be our best center, just like Gally shouldn't be our best winger, and Chiarot our best LHD. I don't understand why people are acting like we have a couple superstar centers playing behind Danault.

 

[blarneylad]

We have no RW better than Gally, so nobody has the feeling that Brendan is playing in front of a better player than him, same for Chiarot as a LD, but we have that feeling with Danault.

We talk a lot about Danault, because some posters think he's a third liner, others think that he's a #2C and we have even fans who believe that he's a #1C... That's why we talk a lot about him.

Gally is a #1RW, nobody will deny that, so we have nothing to argue about.

Chiarot is a fringe top-4, nobody will argue that he's a top-pairing D.

That's why we talk so much about Danault.

No Danault is almost as good as McDavid didn’t you know?

13 career high goals

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

You misread, I said winger, not RW for Gally. Danault is the 2C on over half the teams in the league, that essentially means he is a 2C. Now go before you go and cherry pick some teams like the Pens where he isn't the 2nd line center, that doesn't make Malkin a 2C or Danault a 3C. We also don't have anyone better than Danault as our center at the moment, not sure why it's so surprising that our best center is playing the #1 C position. Now of course he shouldn't be our best center, just like Gally shouldn't be our best winger, and Chiarot our best LHD. I don't understand why people are acting like we have a couple superstar centers playing behind Danault.

No, I did not misread. You asked why we talk so much about Danault and not Gally or Chiarot...

It's because some argue that he's a #3 some even think that he's a #1C. And the fact that we think that Danault is playing in front of better players, at least offensively... Domi and Suzuki. Is Chiarot playing in front of a young LD ? Is Gally playing in front of a young winger ? No.

Those are the reasons why we talk more about Danault than Chiarot and Gally.

I can name you 60 centres who for the majority are better(45-50) and the rest is at least as good as Danault or a bit better. Then you will answer that it's subjective.

 

[The Great Weal]

No, I did not misread. You asked why we talk so much about Danault and not Gally or Chiarot...

It's because some argue that he's a #3 some even think that he's a #1C. And the fact that we think that Danault is playing in front of better players, at least offensively... Domi and Suzuki. Is Chiarot playing in front of a young LD ? Is Gally playing in front of a young winger ? No.

Those are the reasons why we talk more about Danault than Chiarot and Gally.

I can name you 60 centres who for the majority are better(45-50) and the rest is at least as good as Danault or a bit better. Then you will answer that it's subjective.

Ya you did misread, because you completely changed the topic of discussion. I said we aren't going anywhere with Gally as our best WINGER and you claimed that he is a 1st line RIGHT WINGER. Domi has been so f***ing abysmal defensively that it cancels what he's done offensively(which isn't that good anyways). Suzukis ice time is not an issue, and he still has not been better than Danault for the entire season. He's also a rookie, you shouldn't throw him to the wolves. So no we really don't have anyone clear cut better than Danault. We aren't winning with him as the 1C, we aren't winning with Chiarot on the top pair, we aren't winning with Gally as our best winger... Yet Danault is always the topic of conversation.

I have already provided you a ranking of where Danault ends up on the center depth of other teams. He's most definitely a 2C so you really can't name 50 centers better than him.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

Ya you did misread, because you completely changed the topic of discussion. I said we aren't going anywhere with Gally as our best WINGER and you claimed that he is a 1st line RIGHT WINGER. Domi has been so f***ing abysmal defensively that it cancels what he's done offensively(which isn't that good anyways). Suzukis ice time is not an issue, and he still has not been better than Danault for the entire season. He's also a rookie, you shouldn't throw him to the wolves. So no we really don't have anyone clear cut better than Danault. We aren't winning with him as the 1C, we aren't winning with Chiarot on the top pair, we aren't winning with Gally as our best winger... Yet Danault is always the topic of conversation.

I have already provided you a ranking of where Danault ends up on the center depth of other teams. He's most definitely a 2C so you really can't name 50 centers better than him.

So you expect a rookie to have better numbers with scrubs on his wings or to be better than Danault who plays with Tatar and Gally ? Even Danault, who you think is a #2C Danault is struggling with Armia and Lehky.

He played many times against the best trio, because a coach who has the last change, avoids sending his best line against the best defensive duo and offensive trio, many teams have also two dangerous lines... The throwing him a at wolves argument is weak.

Domi is not good defensively but, he will be generating enough offence to compensate with Tatar and Gally, if not we have Suzuki.

It's easy to say we are not winning with Gally, but he's a #1RW in this league. Can we upgrade ? Sure, but we can say that about every player.

We crapped A LOT on Chiarot when we signed him, nobody will argue that he's a legitimate #1LD.

Like I said 2 times and I'll repeat the third time, we talk more about Danault, because many think that he's playing in front of Domi and Suzuki and some think he's better than he really is. Those are the reasons we talk so much about him. Nobody will argue that Chiarot is a #3/#2/#1D. We know that he's a fringe top-4 D. Gally everyone knows that he's a #1RW, so no argument to have here. If you disagree with that, start posting on their thread and you will get answers and generate a lot of talk about them.

 

[CristianoRonaldo]

I have already provided you a ranking of where Danault ends up on the center depth of other teams. He's most definitely a 2C so you really can't name 50 centers better than him.

Yes, I remember, but since then I made a list and posted it previously.

 

[The Great Weal]

So you expect a rookie to have better numbers with scrubs on his wings or to be better than Danault who plays with Tatar and Gally ? Even Danault, who you think is a #2C Danault is struggling with Armia and Lehky.

He played many times against the best trio, because a coach who has the last change, avoids sending his best line against the best defensive duo and offensive trio, many teams have also two dangerous lines... The throwing him a at wolves argument is weak.

Domi is not good defensively but, he will be generating enough offence to compensate with Tatar and Gally, if not we have Suzuki.

It's easy to say we are not winning with Gally, but he's a #1RW in this league. Can we upgrade ? Sure, but we can say that about every player.

We crapped A LOT on Chiarot when we signed him, nobody will argue that he's a legitimate #1LD.

Like I said 2 times and I'll repeat the third time, we talk more about Danault, because many think that he's playing in front of Domi and Suzuki and some think he's better than he really is. Those are the reasons we talk so much about him. Nobody will argue that Chiarot is a #3/#2/#1D. We know that he's a fringe top-4 D. Gally everyone knows that he's a #1RW, so no argument to have here. If you disagree with that, start posting on their thread and you will get answers and generate a lot of talk about them.

Suzuki's most common linemate is Domi, the most productive Hab in a decade. He also played a decent amount with Kovalchuk who was our best forward for like 15 games. A 2nd liner would produce less with 3rd/4th liners yes, but the teams he would be a 2C on have much more talented winger depth that Danault would still be a 50-55 point defensive responsible center. The Habs winger depth is filled with 3rd liners after Tatar and Gally.

He's also helped the best trio tremendously. He's obviously not holding Tatar back who is on pace for 75 points, or do you think Tatar would be a 90+ forward with a real 2c(whatever that is to you). MANY rookies struggle against tough competition unless it's a McDavid like player, it's not a weak argument at all, it's actually factual.

That's an understatement, Domi's an actual liability defensively. He'll score a goal, but then he will be directly responsible for 3 against. He's also been inconsistent offensively. When he's on, he's excellent and produces like crazy. When he's off, he's arguably the worst player on the team.

I'm talking about wingers in general, not right wingers, you keep dodging this. Yes Gallagher might be like the 20th best RW in the league. Heck why not change the criteria and make it RW that are below 5'10, he'd probably be top 5. Doesn't mean we win anything with him as our best winger. Some contending teams may have weaker RW where he would easily be the top winger, but they can do that because they have good enough LW to compensate for that. If not good enough forward core, they make up for it with their stellar defense which isn't the norm.

I have heard little to no complaints about Chiarot since his tough start to the year. Danault will get shit on regardless if he has a 3 point night or does f*** all offensively, it's always consistent and makes no sense. He is what he is and it's not his fault that this team is so f***ing terrible that he has to be the #1 C.

Some also think that Victor Mete is a top 2 dman, doesn't mean they are right. For like the 5th time, Domi is f***ing atrocious defensively. Like to the point where we lose games mostly because of it. You never know what you get with him and he's been nowhere near as good as last year offensively. Suzuki has done a great job regardless of who he plays with. He's produced with everyone and gets PP time with the best offensive players. He's played with Domi mostly this year, who is good offensively.

Even if we ONLY want to include RW, let's say he's 20th in the league for RW. Should we be thrilled that we have the 20th best RW? It feels silly to only account for RW because there are many more factors, so I'll try it this way, should we be happy with Gallagher being the go to guy offensively for our best winger and even our best forward? Is that what contenders have, Gallagher as their best winger? Even some garbage teams have at least 1 better winger than Gally.

If Danault isn't the unanimous #1 C on this team for you then Chiarot can't be the unanimous LHD for you with Mete on the team.

 

[Andrei79]

Lmao.

Imagine debating how a team pacing to finish bottom 5 in the league for the second time in three years should not give it's most prominent young player good wingers.


Because the third line center absolutely needs, just absolutely needs to get all that time with the best wingers, always.

Gotta pump up his stats to get those 50 precious points.

 

[DAChampion]

Suzuki's most common linemate is Domi, the most productive Hab in a decade. He also played a decent amount with Kovalchuk who was our best forward for like 15 games. A 2nd liner would produce less with 3rd/4th liners yes, but the teams he would be a 2C on have much more talented winger depth that Danault would still be a 50-55 point defensive responsible center. The Habs winger depth is filled with 3rd liners after Tatar and Gally.

He's also helped the best trio tremendously. He's obviously not holding Tatar back who is on pace for 75 points, or do you think Tatar would be a 90+ forward with a real 2c(whatever that is to you). MANY rookies struggle against tough competition unless it's a McDavid like player, it's not a weak argument at all, it's actually factual.

That's an understatement, Domi's an actual liability defensively. He'll score a goal, but then he will be directly responsible for 3 against. He's also been inconsistent offensively. When he's on, he's excellent and produces like crazy. When he's off, he's arguably the worst player on the team.

I'm talking about wingers in general, not right wingers, you keep dodging this. Yes Gallagher might be like the 20th best RW in the league. Heck why not change the criteria and make it RW that are below 5'10, he'd probably be top 5. Doesn't mean we win anything with him as our best winger. Some contending teams may have weaker RW where he would easily be the top winger, but they can do that because they have good enough LW to compensate for that. If not good enough forward core, they make up for it with their stellar defense which isn't the norm.

I have heard little to no complaints about Chiarot since his tough start to the year. Danault will get shit on regardless if he has a 3 point night or does f*** all offensively, it's always consistent and makes no sense. He is what he is and it's not his fault that this team is so f***ing terrible that he has to be the #1 C.

Some also think that Victor Mete is a top 2 dman, doesn't mean they are right. For like the 5th time, Domi is f***ing atrocious defensively. Like to the point where we lose games mostly because of it. You never know what you get with him and he's been nowhere near as good as last year offensively. Suzuki has done a great job regardless of who he plays with. He's produced with everyone and gets PP time with the best offensive players. He's played with Domi mostly this year, who is good offensively.

Even if we ONLY want to include RW, let's say he's 20th in the league for RW. Should we be thrilled that we have the 20th best RW? It feels silly to only account for RW because there are many more factors, so I'll try it this way, should we be happy with Gallagher being the go to guy offensively for our best winger and even our best forward? Is that what contenders have, Gallagher as their best winger? Even some garbage teams have at least 1 better winger than Gally.

If Danault isn't the unanimous #1 C on this team for you then Chiarot can't be the unanimous LHD for you with Mete on the team.

Are you using Mete as an analogy for Suzuki?

 

[Ozmodiar]

No Danault is almost as good as McDavid didn’t you know?

13 career high goals

that tweet is beyond embarrassing.

 

[Mrb1p]

Guess who has a league leading 16 secondary assists ?

 

[Andrei79]

Guess who has a league leading 16 secondary assists ?

Guess who has as many primary EV points as Danault (well, more actually) ?

Eller.

But obviously, he wouldn't be able to rack up those secondaries as a number 1C with two very, very good EV goal scorers (even before Danault).

That is essentially where the difference in production lies between the two. It really puts to light how awful that 2016 offseason was. The 2016 and 2018 offseasons were just brutal for the franchise.

 

[justafan22]

that tweet is beyond embarrassing.

Why do people defend this organization

 

[BaseballCoach]

Domi's an actual liability defensively. He'll score a goal, but then he will be directly responsible for 3 against.

Anecdotal error.

Domi has been a plus player during his time here. So it's not fair to throw out a negative 3-1 narrative.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Anecdotal error.

Domi has been a plus player during his time here. So it's not fair to throw out a negative 3-1 narrative.

guess he's amazing defensively then.

 

[BaseballCoach]

guess he's amazing defensively then.

No, it means he is probably not terrible/awful like some try to say.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Lmao.

Imagine debating how a team pacing to finish bottom 5 in the league for the second time in three years should not give it's most prominent young player good wingers.


Because the third line center absolutely needs, just absolutely needs to get all that time with the best wingers, always.

Gotta pump up his stats to get those 50 precious points.

Illogical formulation.

Tell us if you think Danault is the third best center we have.

 

[ECWHSWI]

No, it means he is probably not terrible/awful like some try to say.

sorry, you're wrong, he's in the + so he's very good. That's what stats say.

 

[Mrb1p]

Illogical formulation.

Tell us if you think Danault is the third best center we have.

Yes, he is, Domi and Suzuki are clearly better.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Yes, he is, Domi and Suzuki are clearly better.

Suzuki is not clearly better, except under PP circumstances where he has more time and space. ANd even on the PP, Suzuki has made turnovers that have led to SH goals against, so let's not idealize his ability level just yet.

He will, some day, be better, but if Jack Hughes as a #1 overall is not on the first line in his rookie year, Suzuki at #13 should not be expected to be ready for that kind of responsibility yet either.

There is nothing wrong with the 16 minutes per game including substantial PP time that he is now getting!

As for Domi, you don't have to convince me. I'm the one who says that if the plan is to develop young players with potential, then Domi should be developed as a priority! His first full year at center was amazing. You don't thrown him under the bus for an inconsistent second year that occurred with frequent pairing to talent-limited wingers.

Tomas Tatar was/is still improving at 28-29 years old, Domi at 24-25 and only in his 2nd year at C should be a no-brainer for prioritizing.

 

[Mrb1p]

Suzuki is not clearly better, except under PP circumstances where he has more time and space. ANd even on the PP, Suzuki has made turnovers that have led to SH goals against, so let's not idealize his ability level just yet.

He will, some day, be better, but if Jack Hughes as a #1 overall is not on the first line in his rookie year, Suzuki at #13 should not be expected to be ready for that kind of responsibility yet either.

There is nothing wrong with the 16 minutes per game including substantial PP time that he is now getting!

As for Domi, you don't have to convince me. I'm the one who says that if the plan is to develop young players with potential, then Domi should be developed as a priority! His first full year at center was amazing. You don't thrown him under the bus for an inconsistent second year that occurred with frequent pairing to talent-limited wingers.

Tomas Tatar was/is still improving at 28-29 years old, Domi at 24-25 and only in his 2nd year at C should be a no-brainer for prioritizing.

Both are better, case closed.