Player Discussion Phillip Danault - First line Center Edition

[BehindTheTimes]

Danault didnt demonstrate anything Eller didnt. He put up 33 in 46 with mostly grinders and a rookie Galch.
You could not possibly find two players that are as comparable as these two, they're exactly the same except one was given the opportunities to develop his offensive game and the other didn't.

Don’t agree at all. I don’t think they are close or even similar in any way. Eller his some physical gifts that Danault doesn’t have, but Danault is much smarter, higher hockey IQ all over the ice. This is why he is successful, nothing to do with his development path and Eller has always been limited mainly because he makes poor decisions, something Danault seldom does.

 

[Sorinth]

He did have linemates of this quality when he first started. But contrary to Eller, he demonstrated above average vision and passing ability, intelligent puck distribution and a very good overall hockey IQ. Not to mention his phenomenal work rate, which Eller didn't have. The coaches recognized those traits and decided he can be safely put in a support role with players more talented than him. They were correct.

They didn't think the same of Eller, also correctly imo. Although in Eller's defense, he probably didn't have much opportunity to prove me wrong in Washington with Backstrom and Kuznetsov above him on the depth chart. But I generally believe, in most cases, that you just have to watch the player and these things become apparent. Eller didn't have it in him.

When exactly did he have linemates like Pacioretty/Radulov or Tatar/Gallagher?

If you are referring to the EGG line, you are likely mis-remembering how long they actually spent together. In 2012-2013 the EGG line was together for 3 games, in 2013-2014 it was 21 games. And it may come as a shock to you but Eller was actually very productive in those games, he had 16 points in the 24 games the EGG line was together which is a 55 point pace.

 

[Sorinth]

Don’t agree at all. I don’t think they are close or even similar in any way. Eller his some physical gifts that Danault doesn’t have, but Danault is much smarter, higher hockey IQ all over the ice. This is why he is successful, nothing to do with his development path and Eller has always but limited mainly because he makes poor decisions, some Danault seldom does.

So hypothetically if we never promoted Danault to play with Pacioretty/Radulov spent these past few years playing him in the bottom six, and then promoted him to a top-6 role today, would Danault be as good today as he currently is?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

So hypothetically if we never promoted Danault to play with Pacioretty/Radulov spent these past few years playing him in the bottom six, and then promoted him to a top-6 role today, would Danault be as good today as he currently is?

Danault earned his ice time through strong play, he wasn’t gifted anything. I would have liked to see Eller with Pacioretty, but ultimately it wouldn’t make Eller any smarter. He’s got real tools, but he’s dumb. Can’t fix stupid.

 

[1909]

When exactly did he have linemates like Pacioretty/Radulov or Tatar/Gallagher?

If you are referring to the EGG line, you are likely mis-remembering how long they actually spent together. In 2012-2013 the EGG line was together for 3 games, in 2013-2014 it was 21 games. And it may come as a shock to you but Eller was actually very productive in those games, he had 16 points in the 24 games the EGG line was together which is a 55 point pace.

EGG line was a very sheltered 3rd line.... Playing against lesser competition.

 

[phillytennis]

He didn't say he's anti French-Canadian. Nor did he imply it. If that French-Canadian player had been someone like Giroux he wouldn't have an issue with him being first line center, it is the fact that Danault isn't of that caliber and we are favoring him instead of focusing on developing young players with higher talent and potential that is upsetting us.

Danault, who is French-Canadian, happens to play intelligently as our #1 centerman...why???...he plays a both ends of the ice...a 200 foot game... great on draws for puck possession.... excellent team guy.
Sure, I hope Kotkinemi and Suzuki develop into all around players....time will tell.
If they surpass Danault's productivity on offense...and become reliable as defender...sure, Danault can become our second or third line centre... that's fine. Kotkinemi, Domi or Suzuki need to show they have the talent and determination to get there.

 

[phillytennis]

This is getting stranger by the minute....so first you say that I WANT to make it anglos vs francos....yet YOU say that the only reason Danault is getting 1st line minutes is because he is Québécois...are you for real right now? Weal is a veteran? That's why he's getting PP minutes? And when he is in the stands...is it because he becomes a rookie? Are you doing all that on purpose right now?

Danault is getting 1st line minutes because we have NOTHING else. Kotkaniemi is CLEARLY not ready. Suzuki is going there but still just his 1st year in the NHL. The closest we have to a first line C right now is Domi and yet, the guy can't win faceoffs if his life depended on it. Danault is at 54% while Domi is at 46%. And he's not 2-way committed. And he takes stupid selfish penalties. That's why Danault is our No1 C. Because that's all we've got. Not because he speaks francais. Insane and insulting analysis. Hey maybe Nate Thompson should be our No1 C....at least he speaks the right language.....

Whitesnake.... well said!!!
I am totally in agreement with you with regards how Danault is being used.

 

[Frank Drebin]

This is getting stranger by the minute....so first you say that I WANT to make it anglos vs francos....yet YOU say that the only reason Danault is getting 1st line minutes is because he is Québécois...are you for real right now? Weal is a veteran? That's why he's getting PP minutes? And when he is in the stands...is it because he becomes a rookie? Are you doing all that on purpose right now?

Danault is getting 1st line minutes because we have NOTHING else. Kotkaniemi is CLEARLY not ready. Suzuki is going there but still just his 1st year in the NHL. The closest we have to a first line C right now is Domi and yet, the guy can't win faceoffs if his life depended on it. Danault is at 54% while Domi is at 46%. And he's not 2-way committed. And he takes stupid selfish penalties. That's why Danault is our No1 C. Because that's all we've got. Not because he speaks francais. Insane and insulting analysis. Hey maybe Nate Thompson should be our No1 C....at least he speaks the right language.....

I've felt lately I could follow you around and just agree with your posts. You're on fire brother

 

[Sorinth]

Danault earned his ice time through strong play, he wasn’t gifted anything. I would have liked to see Eller with Pacioretty, but ultimately it wouldn’t make Eller any smarter. He’s got real tools, but he’s dumb. Can’t fix stupid.

So are you saying Danault putting up 6 points in 13 games as a bottom six player was enough to earn him Pacioretty and Radulov, but Eller putting up 30 points in 46 games in the bottom six isn't?

EDIT: Also can you answer the original question, would Danault be as good today if he spent the last few years playing in a bottom six role?

 

[gillyguzzler]

Danault, who is French-Canadian, happens to play intelligently as our #1 centerman...why???...he plays a both ends of the ice...a 200 foot game... great on draws for puck possession.... excellent team guy.
Sure, I hope Kotkinemi and Suzuki develop into all around players....time will tell.
If they surpass Danault's productivity on offense...and become reliable as defender...sure, Danault can become our second or third line centre... that's fine. Kotkinemi, Domi or Suzuki need to show they have the talent and determination to get there.

well said

 

[Sorinth]

EGG line was a very sheltered 3rd line.... Playing against lesser competition.

A line that barely played together. So back to the original question when did Eller given this chance that he subsequently fumbled?

 

[Cobra Commander]

Danault, who is French-Canadian, happens to play intelligently as our #1 centerman...why???...he plays a both ends of the ice...a 200 foot game... great on draws for puck possession.... excellent team guy.
Sure, I hope Kotkinemi and Suzuki develop into all around players....time will tell.
If they surpass Danault's productivity on offense...and become reliable as defender...sure, Danault can become our second or third line centre... that's fine. Kotkinemi, Domi or Suzuki need to show they have the talent and determination to get there.

Dude, Suzuki is better than Danault. He can be 1st line center right now, what more does he have to show? If we gave him that opportunity right now he would absolutely thrive.

 

[Deluded Puck]

Hey...if you are anti-French-Canadian, go find another team without French-Canadian players...there are 30 other teams....go!!!

I won't even validate your post with a proper response.

 

[26Mats]

Dude, Suzuki is better than Danault. He can be 1st line center right now, what more does he have to show? If we gave him that opportunity right now he would absolutely thrive.

The best thing about the emergence of Suzuki and Kovalchuk is now Danault won't be the only one with really good linemates. Put this top nine together any way you want and each line will be fine:

Lw: Tatar, Kovalchuk, Drouin
Center: Danault, Domi/Suzuki, Kotkaniemi
Rw: Gallagher, Suzuki/Domi, Armia

 

[phillytennis]

I won't even validate your post with a proper response.

Good...I needed to make my point clear.
Remember, you can always switch allegiances and become a fan of the Leafs or Bruins or any other team.

 

[gillyguzzler]

Dude, Suzuki is better than Danault. He can be 1st line center right now, what more does he have to show? If we gave him that opportunity right now he would absolutely thrive.

Offensively, yes. Overall game, not yet but will get there.

 

[phillytennis]

The best thing about the emergence of Suzuki and Kovalchuk is now Danault won't be the only one with really good linemates. Put this top nine together any way you want and each line will be fine:

Lw: Tatar, Kovalchuk, Drouin
Center: Danault, Domi/Suzuki, Kotkaniemi
Rw: Gallagher, Suzuki/Domi, Armia

Sorry Dude but Suzuki isn't as good as Danault defensively.
We need to develop our young players and show patience in their development.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Domi is a star ???

Yes, but not an All-Star as while he was on the All-star ballot, he did not make it.

 

[Deluded Puck]

Yes he implies it. If you are against a player playing in a certain role, you say A PLAYER IS BEING PLAYED IN A ROLE THAT IS TOO BIG FOR HIM. Not...a FRENCH PLAYER......Jordan Weal is being played on the PP. I've never read...AN ANGLOPHONE PLAYER is being played on the PP and doesn't deserve it.....

And somehow, I suspect that Danault being french irritates some people 'cause in this board, sometimes, for some posters, when you acquire a french player, you acquire him SOLELY for the purpose of french ratio. An anglo is a player. A french is a french player. Sad.

Who defends CJ's usage of Jordan Weal on here or in the media? He likes him because he loves veteran grinders, but if we had more offensively gifted players would that even be a viable option for CJ?

Everyone knows the Habs have certain... ahem... "pressures" placed upon them to have Quebecois in prominent roles.... Every year it's "We are interested in Pierre-Luc Dubois" or marketing and playing Drouin as a no1 C (they'd have never traded for him in the first place if he was Anglo). You're in denial if you think otherwise.

I don't want people to turn on Danault because he's been put in over his head, that's not fair to him. I really like the player for what should be, an 18-20 minute 200ft C taking on tough situations, BEHIND an Elite offensive no1.

Danault is not a no1 C in the same way Drouin & Desharnais never were, in the same way Gorges and Boullion weren't top pair D, in the same way Darche was never a top 6 winger. That's my point. I think his critics judge him by the standard of a no1 C. If he was a no2 they'd soon disappear.

 

[26Mats]

The best thing about the emergence of Suzuki and Kovalchuk is now Danault won't be the only one with really good linemates. Put this top nine together any way you want and each line will be fine:

Lw: Tatar, Kovalchuk, Drouin
Center: Danault, Domi/Suzuki, Kotkaniemi
Rw: Gallagher, Suzuki/Domi, Armia

Sorry Dude but Suzuki isn't as good as Danault defensively.
We need to develop our young players and show patience in their development.

Yeah, I agree. Set Danault up to carry the heaviest defensive matchups.

I was more referring to the offensive end. All three lines will be good offensively, no matter the combinations.

 

[1909]

Who defends CJ's usage of Jordan Weal on here or in the media? He likes him because he loves veteran grinders, but if we had more offensively gifted players would that even be a viable option for CJ?

Everyone knows the Habs have certain... ahem... "pressures" placed upon them to have Quebecois in prominent roles.... Every year it's "We are interested in Pierre-Luc Dubois" or marketing and playing Drouin as a no1 C (they'd have never traded for him in the first place if he was Anglo). You're in denial if you think otherwise.

I don't want people to turn on Danault because he's been put in over his head, that's not fair to him. I really like the player for what should be, an 18-20 minute 200ft C taking on tough situations, BEHIND an Elite offensive no1.

Danault is not a no1 C in the same way Drouin & Desharnais never were, in the same way Gorges and Boullion weren't top pair D, in the same way Darche was never a top 6 winger. That's my point. I think his critics judge him by the standard of a no1 C. If he was a no2 they'd soon disappear.

The only 'prominent roles" for French speaking-bilingual people are the head-coaching jobs and IF possible the GM. At some point, Habs had only ONE french speaking player in their line up: Desharnais. Now, they have three: Danault, Drouin, Scandella + a bilingual Byron. WOW !

Once again, Danault is playing top minutes because the other centermen cannot handle his work load for the time being. Nothing else. And certainly not because he is born in Quebec or speaks French.

I am sick and tired of these biased posts.

 

[Deluded Puck]

The only 'prominent roles" for French speaking-bilingual people are the head-coaching jobs and IF possible the GM. At some point, Habs had only ONE french speaking player in their line up: Desharnais. Now, they have three: Danault, Drouin, Scandella + a bilingual Byron. WOW !

I want more French players as long as they improve the team and excel in the role they have been given. The end. I couldn't really give a crap where players come from, but a some (Very loud) people still do.

 

[1909]

I want more French players as long as they improve the team and excel in the role they have been given. The end. I couldn't really give a crap where players come from, but a some (Very loud) people still do.

Danault doesn't make his team worse. It's the whole make up of the team and the lack of depth due to very bad drafting, that is causing the actual problems.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Offensively, yes. Overall game, not yet but will get there.

What? Don’t act like Danault never makes mistakes cause he makes plenty. Suzuki’s defensive game is very adequate, it’s one of his strengths. Enough with this nonsense that ONLY Danault could handle the first line, it’s absolute BS.

Overall:

Suzuki > Danault

 

[Whitesnake]

Who defends CJ's usage of Jordan Weal on here or in the media? He likes him because he loves veteran grinders, but if we had more offensively gifted players would that even be a viable option for CJ?

Everyone knows the Habs have certain... ahem... "pressures" placed upon them to have Quebecois in prominent roles.... Every year it's "We are interested in Pierre-Luc Dubois" or marketing and playing Drouin as a no1 C (they'd have never traded for him in the first place if he was Anglo). You're in denial if you think otherwise.

I don't want people to turn on Danault because he's been put in over his head, that's not fair to him. I really like the player for what should be, an 18-20 minute 200ft C taking on tough situations, BEHIND an Elite offensive no1.

Danault is not a no1 C in the same way Drouin & Desharnais never were, in the same way Gorges and Boullion weren't top pair D, in the same way Darche was never a top 6 winger. That's my point. I think his critics judge him by the standard of a no1 C. If he was a no2 they'd soon disappear.

It makes absolutely no sense to talk about the pressure of having francophone players about a team who has 2 freakin francophone players on it. Incredible. And no, Marco Scandella is not a francophone player even if he comes from Montreal. And we are in the PLD? What the heck are you talking about? So if we are interested in PLD, it's solely because he speaks french? Please tell me you wouldn't take him on your team so we could laugh a little...And they would not traded him if he was an anglo? Thank god Max Domi's name isn't Maxime Dompierre, 'cause I guess you would have said the same? How about Nick Suzuki? Thank god his name wasn't Nicolas Tremblay 'cause we would have never gotten him if his name would have Nick Suzuki....Do you know the ratio of the trades Bergevin made anglos vs francos? Please tell me again about the pressure of francophone players.....

And again, Danault is where he's at for the lack of better due to the ineptitude of our GM. Not because he speaks french. If that would be the case.....I wonder how come Charles Hudon doesn't have top 6 minutes....how's that francophone pressure based on Charles Hudon?