Player Discussion Phillip Danault - Damn-oh ! Edition

[Habs Halifax]

The AVERAGE 2C would be the 46th best both offensively and defensively. We know that Danault is among the best defensively, but how does he do offensively compared to all other Centers?

In ppg, he is at 50th among C but plays less than 45 of the 49 guys ahead of him. Unlike what someone wrote here, most of Danault's assists are primary assists (21 out of 34).

More importantly, at even strength, which is where he gets played, Danault 26th among scorers for Cs, one point behind Steven Stamkos. Lars Eller is considered an above-average 3C (75th in points), and he has 16 points less than Danault. At 5-on-5, Danault plays like a marginal 1C. Unfortunately, for some people, he lives in Desharnais' shadow, for reasons that are not very flattering to those who think that way.

Ideally, we all would prefer to have Danault play 3C in a shutdown role. However, that don't mean he is a terrible #2C either. It's just not cup contender center depth talk.

 

[Mrb1p]

How in the world is he a below average 2nd line center? Hes's 46th for centers in points with abysmal pp time and a brutal start of the season. He's so underrated nowadays. People want him traded for Poehling, when Poehling's potential is exactly what Danault is now.

Danault couldn't even crack the top 9 of his national team at the WJC, Poehling was the first line C, they're entirely different players.

I'm tired of this BS so I'll make a mega post that hopefully all of you Danault lovers can read.

Going team by team Danault would be the best or second best center on
Arizona (And that's a stretch, considering Dvorak was trending better than Danault, is younger but lets give him the benefit of the doubt.)
Buffalo (And that won't last long with the rise of Mittlestatd.)
Carolina (And that won't last long with Necas coming up.)
Dallas
Detroit
New Jersey
New York R
Ottawa


That's EIGHT teams in a 31 teams league. Thats 25% of teams and thats exactly ONE playoff team.
How in the hell is that supposed to be a second line center ? How in the hell ? He can't even crack the top nine on some teams. No other player of his calibre but Tyler Bozak and David Desharnais have benefited from playing with similar talent as Danault has in his life. Remember how Eller looked once we stuck talent on his line ? Like a "2nd" line center. It's always like that, but it's so counter-intuitive to the offensive success of the team. It makes a 60+ points player like Gallagher a 15 assists a year guy? Gallagher is currently on pace for his third lowest assist total in his career... Any of you guessed why, yet?

 

[ZUKI]

Ideally, we all would prefer to have Danault play 3C in a shutdown role. However, that don't mean he is a terrible #2C either. It's just not cup contender center depth talk.

you know , you could have said the same about 2-3 of the Penguins d-men last time they won the Cup

 

[Mrb1p]

He has proven and earned the right to be called a middle 2C in today's NHL. You are being too critical on him IMO. He is just not this offensive type center you drool over.

At the end of the day if you don't produce top six offense, you're not a top six player.

 

[Mrb1p]

The AVERAGE 2C would be the 46th best both offensively and defensively. We know that Danault is among the best defensively, but how does he do offensively compared to all other Centers?

In ppg, he is at 50th among C but plays less than 45 of the 49 guys ahead of him. Unlike what someone wrote here, most of Danault's assists are primary assists (21 out of 34).

More importantly, at even strength, which is where he gets played, Danault 26th among scorers for Cs, one point behind Steven Stamkos. Lars Eller is considered an above-average 3C (75th in points), and he has 16 points less than Danault. At 5-on-5, Danault plays like a marginal 1C. Unfortunately, for some people, he lives in Desharnais' shadow, for reasons that are not very flattering to those who think that way.

Do you realize how stupid your stats sounds once you put the phrase "At 5-on5, Danault palys like a marginal 1C." ???

 

[Mrb1p]

One thing I'm sure everyone can agree on: when Kotkaniemi is ready to be a top 6 center snd Danault moves to 3c, he'll be a damn good 3c.

With Domi, Kotkaniemi, and Danault we should have 3 highly capable offensive lines.

Our biggest need now is a pp QB.

It hasn't happened this year, why would it happen anytime soon ?

Danault is expecting top line minutes, Danault is expecting the best wingers on the team. He's been getting this treatment for the past three seasons now, why would it change ? Realistically, it won't. You know the drill.

 

[Habs Halifax]

you know , you could have said the same about 2-3 of the Penguins d-men last time they won the Cup

The Pens cup contender build is rare. I see many teams trying to copy cat this model and they are stupid cause they have a re-active strategy vs a pro-active strategy.

I have no issues with Danault as a middle 2C piece moving forward. He has earned it with his production and how he has shown ability to be trusted in all game situations. Some Habs fans just like to devalue him cause he is our best center and they want someone with more offensive ability

 

[Mrb1p]

Ideally, we all would prefer to have Danault play 3C in a shutdown role. However, that don't mean he is a terrible #2C either. It's just not cup contender center depth talk.

He's not a terrible 2C
He would be a 2C on 8 other teams, all of them but one are bottom feeders

Choose one.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's not a terrible 2C
He would be a 2C on 8 other teams, all of them but one are bottom feeders

Choose one.

Like I said... above average 3C and below average 2C. According to my evaluations (production and the eye test), this is a fair statement towards Danault.

Pinning down players into one thing when players improve and decline is not fair. Petry for example is still being looked at as just a top 4D by a some lot of people when he deserves top pairing talk based on his play in the last 3 seasons.

 

[Mrb1p]

you know , you could have said the same about 2-3 of the Penguins d-men last time they won the Cup

You know, we don't have a top 5 player of all time to rely on, or a norris contending Dman, or a multiple art ross winner as 2C, or a 40 goal scorer as our third best forward.

 

[Mrb1p]

Like I said... above average 3C and below average 2C. According to my evaluations (production and the eye test), this is a fair statement towards Danault.

He's well below the average at 2C, he's in the bottom quarter of the 2C's, and even that is a stretch.

But is that what were striving for ? For league average ? Great, let's be the New Jersey Devils ! Stop endorsing this mediocrity.

 

[Scriptor]

Danault couldn't even crack the top 9 of his national team at the WJC, Poehling was the first line C, they're entirely different players.

I'm tired of this BS so I'll make a mega post that hopefully all of you Danault lovers can read.

Going team by team Danault would be the best or second best center on
Arizona (And that's a stretch, considering Dvorak was trending better than Danault, is younger but lets give him the benefit of the doubt.)
Buffalo (And that won't last long with the rise of Mittlestatd.)
Carolina (And that won't last long with Necas coming up.)
Dallas
Detroit
New Jersey
New York R
Ottawa


That's EIGHT teams in a 31 teams league. Thats 25% of teams and thats exactly ONE playoff team.
How in the hell is that supposed to be a second line center ? How in the hell ? He can't even crack the top nine on some teams. No other player of his calibre but Tyler Bozak and David Desharnais have benefited from playing with similar talent as Danault has in his life. Remember how Eller looked once we stuck talent on his line ? Like a "2nd" line center. It's always like that, but it's so counter-intuitive to the offensive success of the team. It makes a 60+ points player like Gallagher a 15 assists a year guy? Gallagher is currently on pace for his third lowest assist total in his career... Any of you simpletons have guessed why, yet ?

Maybe a little restraint in your disdain of your fellow man/woman would be in order, don't you think?

 

[Mrb1p]

Maybe a little restraint in your disdain of your fellow man/woman would be in order, don't you think?

At some point, you call a spade a spade.

I edited the part out.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's well below the average at 2C, he's in the bottom quarter of the 2C's, and even that is a stretch.

But is that what were striving for ? For league average ? Great, let's be the New Jersey Devils ! Stop endorsing this mediocrity.

Bottom quarter (according do your evaluations) in terms of 2C is considered below average 2C and above average 3C in my books.

Danault is not mediocrity. All you are doing is deflating tires to prove what? He is nothing special and just a 3C or even worse? Come on man.

 

[Mrb1p]

Bottom quarter (according do your evaluations) in terms of 2C is considered below average 2C and above average 3C in my books.

Danault is not mediocrity. All you are doing is deflating tires to prove what? He is nothing special and just a 3C or even worse? Come on man.

So he's a 3C?

 

[Scriptor]

He's well below the average at 2C, he's in the bottom quarter of the 2C's, and even that is a stretch.

But is that what were striving for ? For league average ? Great, let's be the New Jersey Devils ! Stop endorsing this mediocrity.

On a Cup contender, Danault is not the ideal second C, but he is a 2C caliber NHLer, with the right line mates. A N/S style of play in a shutdown role on a line with Danault is actually effective, overall, if you aren't simply looking at the point totals at the end of the day.

When looking at the point totals and considering the shutdown ability of his line at the same time that it produces decent offense, I'd say it's actually pretty impressive.

Are there better shutdown 2Cs in terms of production? Yes, but I doubt this buries Danault in the bottom quarter of the league as a second C when evaluating that criteria.

It's only a matter of perspective, but Danault doesn't get nearly as much credit as he deserves.

I'd love to have three better Cs than Danault and place him on a shutdown 4th line I could actually use to stifle opponents' best lines and their offense and, that way, free up my more offensive players to play against lesser opposition.

Signing Duchene as an UFA (not my favourite human being, but a better C than what we currently see with the Habs) would actually give a potential C-line of Duchene - Domi - Kotkaniemi - Danault early on, if you go by overall production for Cs. However, we'd still be short two RWs and one LW for the top-9, IMO, with Byron and Shaw tagged for 4th line duties that would actually give that line a chance to score the odd complementary goal for the team.

We might have one RW in Suzuki already in the ranks for the top-9 (2nd line RW, IMO, whether Gallagher is your 1st or 3rd line RW, depending on the team's depth) and one LW already in the rans for top-9 duties in Poehling (3rd line duties to start).

Can MON sign Duchene, Dzingel and some other winger (RW or LW since Dzingel can play either) to be a stronger team in the very near future?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So he's a 3C?

Middle 2C depending on team build. Is Turris a better center vs Danault? Preds are cup contenders and they have Turris playing 2C. Go figure eh.

 

[Scriptor]

So he's a 3C?

No, his point was that you are deflating tires to make that the point, not saying that he is just that, I don't think.

 

[LaP]

The AVERAGE 2C would be the 46th best both offensively and defensively. We know that Danault is among the best defensively, but how does he do offensively compared to all other Centers?

In ppg, he is at 50th among C but plays less than 45 of the 49 guys ahead of him. Unlike what someone wrote here, most of Danault's assists are primary assists (21 out of 34).

More importantly, at even strength, which is where he gets played, Danault 26th among scorers for Cs, one point behind Steven Stamkos. Lars Eller is considered an above-average 3C (75th in points), and he has 16 points less than Danault. At 5-on-5, Danault plays like a marginal 1C. Unfortunately, for some people, he lives in Desharnais' shadow, for reasons that are not very flattering to those who think that way.

Danault is 34th for total TOI at EV in the league among centers. Eller sits at the 72nd position. They are both more or less where their TOI puts them.

Danault is almost played like a 1st line center at EV. He is one of the most used 2nd line center in this role. He played more EV minutes than Getzlaf, Stamkos and Malkin. Motsly because they missed some games but still he is used a lot in this role. Not sure this is a recipe for success long term.

History doesn't lie so we will see in 10 years what is the result.

 

[26Mats]

It hasn't happened this year, why would it happen anytime soon ?

Danault is expecting top line minutes, Danault is expecting the best wingers on the team. He's been getting this treatment for the past three seasons now, why would it change ? Realistically, it won't. You know the drill.

It will definitely change. It's a question of when, not if. But how soon or not so soon it will take will depend on how fast Kotkaniemi develops.

If Poehling develops fast it will also be interesting to see what happens at the center position. But I'll only consider that when I actually see Poehling play and develop at the NHL level.

At any rate, ideally we have 6 really good top 9 wingers, so it doesn't matter who the 1c, 2c, or 3c is -they're all palying with good players. It's how I would structure my lineup. There will be a lot of good UFA wingers this summer.

 

[BaseballCoach]

fdfd

Danault couldn't even crack the top 9 of his national team at the WJC, Poehling was the first line C, they're entirely different players.

I'm tired of this BS so I'll make a mega post that hopefully all of you Danault lovers can read.

Going team by team Danault would be the best or second best center on
Arizona (And that's a stretch, considering Dvorak was trending better than Danault, is younger but lets give him the benefit of the doubt.)
Buffalo (And that won't last long with the rise of Mittlestatd.)
Carolina (And that won't last long with Necas coming up.)
Dallas
Detroit
New Jersey
New York R
Ottawa


That's EIGHT teams in a 31 teams league. Thats 25% of teams and thats exactly ONE playoff team.
How in the hell is that supposed to be a second line center ? How in the hell ? He can't even crack the top nine on some teams. No other player of his calibre but Tyler Bozak and David Desharnais have benefited from playing with similar talent as Danault has in his life. Remember how Eller looked once we stuck talent on his line ? Like a "2nd" line center. It's always like that, but it's so counter-intuitive to the offensive success of the team. It makes a 60+ points player like Gallagher a 15 assists a year guy? Gallagher is currently on pace for his third lowest assist total in his career... Any of you simpletons have guessed why, yet ?

Your points would be more effective if you exaggerated less.

There is ONE team with FIVE forwards with more points than Danault, and no other team has more than FOUR, never mind NINE.

Now let's talk about centers. Danault would be third ranking C point-getter on these 13 teams:

• Boston
• Buffalo
• Calgary
• Columbus (now)
• Edmonton
• Nashville
• Philadelphia
• Pittsburgh
• SanJose (one of their listed Cs plays wing)
• Tampa Bay
• Toronto
• Vancouver
• Washington

Danault would be second ranking C point-getter on these 13 teams:

• Carolina
• Chicago
• Colorado
• Dallas
• Detroit
• Florida
• Los Angeles
• Minnesota
• New York Islanders
• New York Rangers
• Saint Louis
• Vegas
• Winnipeg

Danault would be FIRST ranking C point-getter on these 4 teams:

• Arizona
• Anaheim
• New Jersey
• Ottawa

Now, as for Gallagher and why he has only 14 assists. Beats me, because Tatar and Danault have 33 goals between them. So 14 assists is low. Maybe Gallagher is a shoot-first guy who doesn't make that many passes in the offensive zone.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Danault is 34th for total TOI at EV in the league among centers. Eller sits at the 72nd position. They are both more or less where their TOI puts them.

Danault is almost played like a 1st line center at EV. He is one of the most used 2nd line center in this role. He played more EV minutes than Getzlaf, Stamkos and Malkin. Motsly because they missed some games but still he is used a lot in this role. Not sure this is a recipe for success long term.

History doesn't lie so we will see in 10 years what is the result.

You're making my point for me. It's PP time that is the most productive. Most of the guys with more points than Danault have more PP points and tons of PP time.

Danault generates offence off counterattacking and cycling, which are not important skills on the PP.

But his skills are still important for the game as a whole, and because of that Phil is a legit #2 center, better than 17 of them, behind 13 others. And that is just from total points, and ignores defensive ability.

 

[Mrb1p]

On a Cup contender, Danault is not the ideal second C, but he is a 2C caliber NHLer, with the right line mates. A N/S style of play in a shutdown role on a line with Danault is actually effective, overall, if you aren't simply looking at the point totals at the end of the day.

When looking at the point totals and considering the shutdown ability of his line at the same time that it produces decent offense, I'd say it's actually pretty impressive.

Are there better shutdown 2Cs in terms of production? Yes, but I doubt this buries Danault in the bottom quarter of the league as a second C when evaluating that criteria.

It's only a matter of perspective, but Danault doesn't get nearly as much credit as he deserves.

I'd love to have three better Cs than Danault and place him on a shutdown 4th line I could actually use to stifle opponents' best lines and their offense and, that way, free up my more offensive players to play against lesser opposition.

Signing Duchene as an UFA (not my favourite human being, but a better C than what we currently see with the Habs) would actually give a potential C-line of Duchene - Domi - Kotkaniemi - Danault early on, if you go by overall production for Cs. However, we'd still be short two RWs and one LW for the top-9, IMO, with Byron and Shaw tagged for 4th line duties that would actually give that line a chance to score the odd complementary goal for the team.

We might have one RW in Suzuki already in the ranks for the top-9 (2nd line RW, IMO, whether Gallagher is your 1st or 3rd line RW, depending on the team's depth) and one LW already in the rans for top-9 duties in Poehling (3rd line duties to start).

Can MON sign Duchene, Dzingel and some other winger (RW or LW since Dzingel can play either) to be a stronger team in the very near future?

I literally just listed 8 teams, seven bottom feeders on which he'd be a 2C and you come up with this ? How ? Looking at the stats sheet is the only case Danault has to say he's a "2nd line C" he's got incredibly lucky lately and he's not passing the eye test at all.

It's not abotu having Danault at 4C, it's about having him at 3C, where he should be and with the lesser wingers, freeing up offensive abilities of said wingers.

 

[Mrb1p]

Middle 2C depending on team build. Is Turris a better center vs Danault? Preds are cup contenders and they have Turris playing 2C. Go figure eh.

Turris is 100% better than Danault and even he is not good enough. Goes to show how bad having Danault in the 2C spot really is.

You call him a below average 2C, good 3C then say he's a 2C, this is all over the place.

 

[Mrb1p]

It will definitely change. It's a question of when, not if. But how soon or not so soon it will take will depend on how fast Kotkaniemi develops.

If Poehling develops fast it will also be interesting to see what happens at the center position. But I'll only consider that when I actually see Poehling play and develop at the NHL level.

At any rate, ideally we have 6 really good top 9 wingers, so it doesn't matter who the 1c, 2c, or 3c is -they're all palying with good players. It's how I would structure my lineup. There will be a lot of good UFA wingers this summer.

The problem with this is that all I hear about the Danault-gang is things like "you don't want to lose the room", "gotta earn it", "don't let the players down", "can't tank because youre professional" and so many other idiocy. How do you justify moving Danault away from what he has had for the past three seasons now ? How do you justify taking away his ice-time and his linemates ? I don't see it happening personally. Danault is not magically going to get worse.