Proposal: Philadelphia & San Jose

[JojoTheWhale]

Braun's not the player he was anymore and Gudas is one of the precious few decent possession D the Flyers have. This is exactly what they don't need.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Braun's not the player he was anymore and Gudas is one of the precious few decent possession D the Flyers have. This is exactly what they don't need.

What does Braun's not the player he was anymore really mean to you?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What does Braun's not the player he was anymore really mean to you?

He was formerly a quality puck-moving 2nd ES pairingish Defenseman whom I would love to acquire in almost any situation.

He's no longer nearly as effective on the ice and I would not give up assets for him, especially on a team where his limitations match some of the current talent. There's probably a team out there that could use him, but it's not the Flyers.

 

[Groo]

He was formerly a quality puck-moving 2nd ES pairingish Defenseman whom I would love to acquire in almost any situation.

He's no longer nearly as effective on the ice and I would not give up assets for him, especially on a team where his effectiveness limitations match some of the current talent.

I wouldn't call Braun that
He's a speed positioning kind of defenseman

 

[Pinkfloyd]

He was formerly a quality puck-moving 2nd ES pairingish Defenseman whom I would love to acquire in almost any situation.

He's no longer nearly as effective on the ice and I would not give up assets for him, especially on a team where his limitations match some of the current talent.

Except that wasn't what he formerly was other than the quality puck-moving part. That's pretty much what he is now while still keeping the quality puck-moving capabilities.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I wouldn't call Braun that
He's a speed positioning kind of defenseman

Fair. I was just using it as shorthand for not useless offensively and in the transition game.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Fair. I was just using it as shorthand for not useless offensively and in the transition game.

He is still those things. He's simply not top pairing shutdown level defensively anymore. He's still very easily 2nd pairing level on that front while maintaining his positive skating and passing attributes.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Except that wasn't what he formerly was other than the quality puck-moving part. That's pretty much what he is now while still keeping the quality puck-moving capabilities.

I'm glad you like him and hope he continues to play well in your eyes. I do not agree even a tiny bit.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm glad you like him and hope he continues to play well in your eyes. The numbers do not agree with this.

What numbers are you actually referring to incorrectly?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What numbers are you actually referring to incorrectly?

I am reading nothing incorrectly. I understand what I am reading, the usage of the player in question, and how that impacts (or does not) the numbers I am seeing.

I don't wish to converse with someone with your attitude because there can be no expectation of an open mind. Have a good day!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I am reading nothing incorrectly. I understand what I am reading, the usage of the player in question, and how that impacts (or does not) the numbers I am seeing.

I don't wish to converse with someone with your attitude because there can be no expectation of an open mind. Have a good day!

That's because you don't want to get into the specifics. That's why you responded with a dodge.

 

[Gecklund]

I am reading nothing incorrectly. I understand what I am reading, the usage of the player in question, and how that impacts (or does not) the numbers I am seeing.

I don't wish to converse with someone with your attitude because there can be no expectation of an open mind. Have a good day!

What numbers are you talking about?

 

[CanadienShark]

Horrible. Downgrade in goal and on defence all for a 2nd rounder? Pass.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

What numbers are you talking about?

I understand he needs to be looked at through the lens of the legitimately tough usage he gets with Vlasic, but when you look at the whole picture -- shot metrics, possession entries, possession zone exits, shot contributions, defending zone entries, xGF, various WAR models, etc. it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

To be fair, he rebounded a bit last year, but what he does reasonably well is not what the Flyers specifically need and his weaknesses are in the same areas of play where they're already getting caved. He's a poor fit for their needs.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I understand he needs to be looked at through the lens of the legitimately tough usage he gets with Vlasic, but when you look at the whole picture -- shot metrics, possession entries, possession zone exits, shot contributions, defending zone entries, xGF, various WAR models, etc. it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

To be fair, he rebounded a bit last year, but what he does reasonably well is not what the Flyers specifically need and his weaknesses are in the same areas of play where they're already getting caved. He's a poor fit for their needs.

I don't think you legitimately look through the lens of the tough usage he had with Vlasic with the conclusion you reach. He's already shown in a different role that he is still very useful and top four level.

 

[Juxtaposer]

He was formerly a quality puck-moving 2nd ES pairingish Defenseman whom I would love to acquire in almost any situation.

He's no longer nearly as effective on the ice and I would not give up assets for him, especially on a team where his limitations match some of the current talent. There's probably a team out there that could use him, but it's not the Flyers.

Braun was a legitimate #2D in his prime. It’s true that he’s declined, but that still makes him a very solid middle pairing D. He was always underrated at the top of his game, and now when people see Sharks fans say he’s declined, they’re thinking he’s a bottom pairing D because they don’t realize how good he used to be.

 

[SnarkAttack]

Braun was a legitimate #2D in his prime. It’s true that he’s declined, but that still makes him a very solid middle pairing D. He was always underrated at the top of his game, and now when people see Sharks fans say he’s declined, they’re thinking he’s a bottom pairing D because they don’t realize how good he used to be.

To add on, he's been overshadowed by Vlasic his whole career, but he was a 90% Vlasic in many ways. He has regressed, but I'd still trust him on the ice, just not ALWAYS against the opponent's best line. With general 2nd pairing usage, I'd still trust him. On the 3rd pairing he's a luxury I'm glad to have.

 

[Sasso09]

Braun is no legend, but he is one of the best defensive second pairing guys in the NHL. Gonna need more than a second to downgrade

Braun to Gudas is hardly a downgrade

 

[Gecklund]

Braun to Gudas is hardly a downgrade

It definitely is a downgrade. Doesn’t really matter though cause having Gudas and Dillon on the same team, not even considering that they would be on the same pairing is redundant.