OT: Philadelphia Eagles (NFL): 2014 Regular Season: Eagles beat the Texans 31-21!

[Jtown]

I have no problem trading mccoy, but teams have come around on valuing rb's. Rb's use to be the first pick in the draft now they don't get drafted in the first round.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

I have no problem trading mccoy, but teams have come around on valuing rb's. Rb's use to be the first pick in the draft now they don't get drafted in the first round.

I know they've lost draft value because RBs can be extremely unpredictable, but I think a known commodity with such versatility as McCoy has more value. He is starting to near his decline though, so who knows. Dunno where the next RB would come from, not Chris Polk.

 

[Sniped]

It'll definitely be interesting going forward to see what the Eagles do with Foles, considering we'll be drafting in the back half of every round most likely.

I want to believe in Foles, but I have doubts about him now.

 

[flyershockey]

Nobody's trading a first round pick for a 26 year old running back, even if McCoy is still a top three back in the league.

 

[YEM]

It'll definitely be interesting going forward to see what the Eagles do with Foles,

I've thought the whole time that Chipper is going to want *his QB* for *his system* but I can envision a scenario where Foles goes somewhere else [no idea, but maybe a Houston, Tennessee or Tampa?] and thrives while a Mariota or whoever comes in and struggles to adapt and we see a couple of 6-10 or 7-9 seasons...or course the opposite could happen as well, we'll see.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Well, duh, but that is a HUUUUUUGE risk.

It depends on how high they are on Mariota and what the overpayment is. No draft pick is a lock. Even if they do the deal and miss on Mariota, the team is still likely to perform around the way they are performing right now (i.e., they won't be a top five pick if Mariota sucks). They can still improve via free agency and there is no guarantee that the other players they would have picked would strengthen the team.

First round picks since 2009: Maclin, Graham, Watkins, Cox, Johnson, Smith. Of those five, only Maclin is a true impact player at this point. Cox is a good player, so is Johnson. Graham is not an every down guy, Watkins has been erased from the entire city's memory, and Smith doesn't look (at this point) to be an impact player. I think I risk it for a shot at a franchise QB. If you are wrong, you may miss out on an impact player, or you may miss out on a bust.

The flip side is really where the traded picks wind up. If the three or whatever first round picks wind up being top five picks, chances are you made a bad move. If Mariota isn't your franchise QB, but you are still picking in the back half of the draft, I think it is worth the risk, even if it doesn't work out.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Question: if a team like the Titans or Bucs are in a position to acquire Mariota in the draft, why would they make a trade and move assets to get Foles?

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

It depends on how high they are on Mariota and what the overpayment is. No draft pick is a lock. Even if they do the deal and miss on Mariota, the team is still likely to perform around the way they are performing right now (i.e., they won't be a top five pick if Mariota sucks). They can still improve via free agency and there is no guarantee that the other players they would have picked would strengthen the team.

First round picks since 2009: Maclin, Graham, Watkins, Cox, Johnson, Smith. Of those five, only Maclin is a true impact player at this point. Cox is a good player, so is Johnson. Graham is not an every down guy, Watkins has been erased from the entire city's memory, and Smith doesn't look (at this point) to be an impact player. I think I risk it for a shot at a franchise QB. If you are wrong, you may miss out on an impact player, or you may miss out on a bust.

The flip side is really where the traded picks wind up. If the three or whatever first round picks wind up being top five picks, chances are you made a bad move. If Mariota isn't your franchise QB, but you are still picking in the back half of the draft, I think it is worth the risk, even if it doesn't work out.

The difference in those firsts though is that you didn't move significant assets to acquire the pick. Watkins was a bust the day he was drafted. Everyone knew it.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Question: if a team like the Titans or Bucs are in a position to acquire Mariota in the draft, why would they make a trade and move assets to get Foles?

They wouldn't. But if you're trading a couple firsts and throw Foles in the mix it might interest them.

 

[YEM]

Question: if a team like the Titans or Bucs are in a position to acquire Mariota in the draft, why would they make a trade and move assets to get Foles?

you get a somewhat proven commodity and some other picks on top taboot?
you don't have to totally press the rest button w/ a rookie QB?

 

[Halladay]

I'm just glad an organization in this town realizes their own player isn't the best option and that there is room to upgrade despite his decent career numbers. I think any decent qb can run Kelly's scheme successfully, but an elite qb could make the offense unstoppable. I think Foles is a good guy and a good teammate but he isn't elite. He never had elite skills and now that his decision making has been exposed, he's an average QB. You don't win Super Bowls with average, you need elite. And before someone mentions dilfer and Johnson, obviously there are exceptions, however a vast majority of winners, the QB was an elite talent.

I agree with most of this sentiment. If you can upgrade the QB position, Im all for it. But what it would take to potentially acquire Mariota is more than what Washington gave up for Robert. There is no way they should ever trade that much for a player who has never played a snap in the NFL.

I like Foles, and until they can find a QB who is better they should stick with him.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

The difference in those firsts though is that you didn't move significant assets to acquire the pick. Watkins was a bust the day he was drafted. Everyone knew it.

No I know, but what I'm saying is if you have a guy like Mariota, who at least arguably has the very real potential to be a franchise QB, then you have a number of (in all likelihood) late first round picks. In the past six years the Eagles have been 1/6 in getting impact players (likely 2/6 when all is said and done with Johnson).

Cox is a good player, but not an impact guy (i.e. he's a guy you have a shot to get in free agency).

Graham is a backup.

Watkins was a complete disaster.

Smith looks like he will probably be a decent NFLer, but not an impact guy.

So let's say the deal is 3 first rounders or something like that (and maybe something else but lets just look at the three first rounders for now). This year's is a wash since you are getting a first, but I'd say you have a better shot hitting a home run with Mariota than with whomeber is being picked at the back-end of this draft. So let's look at next year and consider that Mariota is a bust. My guess is even with a bust of a QB, the team can still compete for the playoffs next year so in all likelihood we are looking at 15-25 draft pick, where we've been picking in recent years. We've not done great there in the last six drafts, so while we'd have a chance to get a good guy, all it is at that point is a chance. Same goes for the following year. It is a risk, for sure, but I think it is a risk I take every day of the week for a guy like Mariota, who is intimately familiar with Chip and the read option.

 

[Halladay]

What Washington gave up from 6th to 2nd was 3 1st rounds picks, and a 2nd I believe. That was to move up 4 spots. No think about what the Eagles would have trade from the 20's. Not going to happen.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

What Washington gave up from 6th to 2nd was 3 1st rounds picks, and a 2nd I believe. That was to move up 4 spots. No think about what the Eagles would have trade from the 20's. Not going to happen.

Trade found here:

Swapped firsts in 2012, Redskins 1st in 2013 and 2014, and Redskins 2nd in 2012. They went on to trade several of those picks.

Final product:
2012 1st Round Pick: Michael Brockers
2012 2nd Round Pick: Janoris Jenkins
2012 2nd Round Pick: Isiah Pead
2012 5th Round Pick: Rokevious Watkins
2013 1st Round Pick: Alec Ogletree
2013 3rd Round Pick: Stedman Bailey
2013 5th Round Pick: Zac Stacy
2014 1st Round Pick: Greg Robinson

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I wouldn't be surprised if Chip thinks he doesn't need a franchise QB to win. I doubt he's really happy with Foles, but I wonder if he'd rather target a secondary guy this draft and win with Foles or Sanchez in the meantime.

Not sure if it's the right move but I'd be really surprised if the Eagles tried to get Mariotta

 

[Flyotes]

First, I will admit to not being very knowledgeable about Football. So let me ask...Has there ever been a consistently successful "mobile" QB ?

Seems to me the best QBs are the Brady, Manning, Rodgers types...who dont seem very mobile to me.

Depends a lot on your definition of success. Wilson just won a superbowl -- over Manning. That is "successful" by one definition. CK on the 49ers has had success recently (albeit right now.. yikes).

In another vein, the Chip Kelly offense is a new wrinkle to the NFL (running the majority of plays out of the inside/outside zone read option) -- so it raises the question as to how much the history of NFL quarterbacks can be used to define how successful he could be with a highly mobile QB with high football IQ and a reasonable arm. In some sense, it hasn't been seen with the way Chip runs it so often and draws it up, albeit the read option isn't new.

Teams right now do not fear Foles hoofing it, so they can lean towards playside harder. Kelly's read option, to be the best version of it, needs a guy who is a legitimate threat to run, especially if they overload playside. Then the QB just does some open field running. They can run an imbalanced line to draw even more players away from the weakside where the QB can get even more grass in front of him.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

What Washington gave up from 6th to 2nd was 3 1st rounds picks, and a 2nd I believe. That was to move up 4 spots. No think about what the Eagles would have trade from the 20's. Not going to happen.

That was also to go to #2 in the draft. I'm not a trades expert, but the fact that it was a higher pick and it was RGIII probably has a lot to do with the value. I don't know where we would be making this deal, but I don't think the Mariota hype is going to be the RGIII hype, and I wouldn't expect the Eagles to move up to #2. Also, if we are trading Nick Foles, who some do believe is a franchise QB, or at least an adequate starter, that would take away from the draft picks some. This is total speculation, of course. And like I said, I would consider two firsts and two seconds, not sure I would definitely do it, and not sure if that would get it done. MOre than that I probably wouldn't do it. Less than that I do it in a heartbeat.

EDIT: Example would be Browns-Bills last year. 9-5 was Two firsts and a fourth.

EDIT EDIT: So 20-5 would be more than that, but I don't know if it would be three firsts and two seconds or whatever the deal was to get RGIII.

 

[Protest]

I wouldn't be surprised if Chip thinks he doesn't need a franchise QB to win. I doubt he's really happy with Foles, but I wonder if he'd rather target a secondary guy this draft and win with Foles or Sanchez in the meantime.

Not sure if it's the right move but I'd be really surprised if the Eagles tried to get Mariotta

You don't need one to win.... it just makes life easier

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That was also to go to #2 in the draft. I'm not a trades expert, but the fact that it was a higher pick and it was RGIII probably has a lot to do with the value. I don't know where we would be making this deal, but I don't think the Mariota hype is going to be the RGIII hype, and I wouldn't expect the Eagles to move up to #2. Also, if we are trading Nick Foles, who some do believe is a franchise QB, or at least an adequate starter, that would take away from the draft picks some. This is total speculation, of course. And like I said, I would consider two firsts and two seconds, not sure I would definitely do it, and not sure if that would get it done. MOre than that I probably wouldn't do it. Less than that I do it in a heartbeat.

EDIT: Example would be Browns-Bills last year. 9-5 was Two firsts and a fourth.

EDIT EDIT: So 20-5 would be more than that, but I don't know if it would be three firsts and two seconds or whatever the deal was to get RGIII.

Mariota, to me at least, is the number one player in the draft. I obviously have a bias but he's ranked number one in a lot of rankings. Pending Mariota falling flat on his face here on out, he'll be going 1-3.

Also, The Eagles aren't the only team that will be looking for a QB. Just like the situation with the Rams and RGIII, they didn't need a QB but the Redskins did, someone will pay the price to move up for that pick.

 

[Halladay]

That was also to go to #2 in the draft. I'm not a trades expert, but the fact that it was a higher pick and it was RGIII probably has a lot to do with the value. I don't know where we would be making this deal, but I don't think the Mariota hype is going to be the RGIII hype, and I wouldn't expect the Eagles to move up to #2. Also, if we are trading Nick Foles, who some do believe is a franchise QB, or at least an adequate starter, that would take away from the draft picks some. This is total speculation, of course. And like I said, I would consider two firsts and two seconds, not sure I would definitely do it, and not sure if that would get it done. MOre than that I probably wouldn't do it. Less than that I do it in a heartbeat.

EDIT: Example would be Browns-Bills last year. 9-5 was Two firsts and a fourth.

EDIT EDIT: So 20-5 would be more than that, but I don't know if it would be three firsts and two seconds or whatever the deal was to get RGIII.

Somewhere out there there is a trade pick value chart. But if Martiota comes out, he may be the 1st pick in the draft and most likely the 1st QB taken. So therefore I cant see a scenario where he falls to say 14-16, which is a place where might be able to move for him.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

You don't need one to win.... it just makes life easier

Without a doubt, but what I mean is, I wouldn't be surprised if Chip didn't value it highly enough to make a crazy trade for one. I'm thinking he might be more likely to target a more under the radar guy that would be a fit for what he needs

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I don't watch much college football, but is there a chance Mariotta could drop? Wasn't Teddy Bridgewater hyped just as much but fell in his draft year?

 

[Jtown]

Mariotta could drop because of his talent level, but won't because of need. There are plenty of teams that need qb's.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Mariotta could drop because of his talent level, but won't because of need. There are plenty of teams that need qb's.

His talent level?

 

[FLYguy3911]

I don't watch much college football, but is there a chance Mariotta could drop? Wasn't Teddy Bridgewater hyped just as much but fell in his draft year?

Doubt it. Bridewater's negatives just kind of snowballed on him. Don't see it happening with Mariota.