Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [Winter 2021 edition]

[Beef Invictus]

As I've pointed out, every Flyer who excelled at lower levels made the NHL, Patrick flopped due to injury, Myers, due to brain death?
Signed MDZ, Schultz, White, PEB, VdV, Medvedev, Martel, Bardeau, Weise, Gordon, Lyubimov, Vechione, Lyon, Neuvirth, added Gagner, Weal in trades.
Other than PEB, aren't these exactly the kind of players people have whined about for the last decade?
Though MDZ and Schultz > Seeler and Connauton, they also cost real money. So did Weise.
Neuvirth was a good signing, a bad resigning.

Making the WJC for teams other than Canada, US, Sweden and Russia is usually a reflection of lack of depth for most countries.
Kase never did squat in the AHL.
Vorobyev was decent in LHV, but not a stand out, at 19, 11 points in 44 KHL games; at 20, 29 points (22 ES) in 58 AHL games; then 42g, 26 points (17 ES), 45g, 28 points (21 ES).
Twarynski, Nov birthday (older), D+1 64g, 43 points, PO: 16g, 17 points. D+2 68g, 45 goals, 72 points
NAK, D+1, 61g, 38 goals, 86 points, PO: 17g 15 points, D+2, 61g 38 goals, 84 points
Rubtsov, D+1 31g, 37 points between MHL & Q; D+2, 49g 42 points, PO: 19g, 10 points
Bunnaman, D+1, 62g, 54 points, D+2, 66g 54 points, PO: 19g 14 points
Hogberg, D+1, SHL 35g 4 points, D+2 42g 6 points
Sushko, D+1, 60g 60 points; PO: 10g 6 points, D+2, 62g 51 points
Ratcliffe, D+1 67g, 41 goals, 68 points, PO: 6g 9 points, D+2 65g 50 goals, 82 points, 24g 30 points
Lycksell, D+1, SHL 26g 7 points, D+2, 51g 12 points

The two players who stood out to some extent were NAK and Ratcliffe, the rest really didn't do much in their D+1/D+2 seasons, though Hogberg and Lycksell were late birthdays who played in the SHL at a relatively young age.
Vorobyev played well in the AHL at 20, then flatlined, and never accepted a bottom six role, he was allergic to contact, that may have changed in the KHL in his second season there at 25.

Merely making the NHL isn't a great bar. That's like hoping just to make the playoffs. There is a lot of talent that showed great NHL promise in the NHL and has hit a wall. Then the talent leaves and becomes better.

 

[Fight4yourRight]

This thread has basically been a Dead v Beef deathmatch.

 

[deadhead]

Plus, look how many 2nd tier guys we had that were in the WJC and played well like Pimp, Kase, Usti, etc... or guys that were PPG in Jr and were not developed into depth guys....except NAK.

PPG in junior is not a high standard, Avon is a UDFA who is a late birthday who missed last season and he's scoring at a 1.15 pace in his D+1 season.
PPG in college is a bit better
I'd say anything over 0.5 at ES in the AHL is solid, 0.75+ is exceptional.

Hextall took a lot of high floor, low ceiling guys, unfortunately it seems the floor may be AHL plus.

 

[Ironmanrulez]

Could you make this picture with the pov of deadhead? Scott as the evil at the top and all others just do what he said. And AV also said Fletcher what he has to do! Should be an interesting graphic

 

[Rebels57]

NeEd MoAr SiZe

 

[IronMarshal]

Again to change the subject matter: Phantoms beat Bears 3-2; Cal O'Reilly had two shorthanded goals.....Go Cal!!!!

After that horrendous start they are at .500; surprised....kind of.......but Lappy got a bunch of retreads with really decent defense and goaltending to play hard and think the game ........ Hogberg and Clendening leading the way with Wylie and Millman as 3 and 4. Who would of thunk this D is better than when we had Myers Sanheim and Morin.........oh wait.....maybe it's the coaching........heresy to say the least......

Jason Smith was a very good NHL defenseman. Since he is there with Lappy, I would think he is the one responsible for the improved defensive play. Maybe next year he coaches the Flyers defense?

 

[wankstifier]

Twarynski successfully developed into ED fodder

 

[deadhead]

Merely making the NHL isn't a great bar. That's like hoping just to make the playoffs. There is a lot of talent that showed great NHL promise in the NHL and has hit a wall. Then the talent leaves and becomes better.

This of course is fake news, as I've shown.
There's NAK for 20 games, and ???

Hextall's drafts were overrated.

The players who were good in their D+1, D+2 seasons were good in the NHL, and while AV may have suppressed scoring to some extent, someone like TK is a much better player now than his first three years, where he was a product of pairing with G and Couts (away from them he played at a 4th line level). Now he produces on various lines and has solid metrics to boot.

Farabee, Sanheim (away from AV!) have improved.
Lindblom is rounding back into form, the wimp let something like cancer impact his play.
Provorov is the only young prospect to regress.
Myers too, but he's a special case, this might be one reason he was a UDFA in the first place, lacks instincts? He was horrid with Ghost as a rookie, looked good with Sanheim but made too many mistakes, and has done nothing in Nashville.
Patrick is literally a head case.

Vorobyev lacked cojones (when a 210 lb player wants to play like a 180 lb forward, he'd better have the skill set of Voracek).
Ratcliffe is starting to show progress after an injury plagued season, but he's unlikely to live up the hype.
The others? Not even 4th line fodder. Which could have been predicted off their D+1, D+2 seasons, maybe a better developmental process could have turned them into passable 4th line players, but their lack of production post-draft suggests a lack of skill.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This of course is fake news, as I've shown.
There's NAK for 20 games, and ???

Hextall's drafts were overrated.

The players who were good in their D+1, D+2 seasons were good in the NHL, and while AV may have suppressed scoring to some extent, someone like TK is a much better player now than his first three years, where he was a product of pairing with G and Couts (away from them he played at a 4th line level). Now he produces on various lines and has solid metrics to boot.

Farabee, Sanheim (away from AV!) have improved.
Lindblom is rounding back into form, the wimp let something like cancer impact his play.
Provorov is the only young prospect to regress.
Myers too, but he's a special case, this might be one reason he was a UDFA in the first place, lacks instincts? He was horrid with Ghost as a rookie, looked good with Sanheim but made too many mistakes, and has done nothing in Nashville.
Patrick is literally a head case.

Vorobyev lacked cojones (when a 210 lb player wants to play like a 180 lb forward, he'd better have the skill set of Voracek).
Ratcliffe is starting to show progress after an injury plagued season, but he's unlikely to live up the hype.
The others? Not even 4th line fodder. Which could have been predicted off their D+1, D+2 seasons, maybe a better developmental process could have turned them into passable 4th line players, but their lack of production post-draft suggests a lack of skill.

NAK, Ghost, Schenn, Vorobyev is coming out of the muck, Hartnell resurrected for a bit, Coburn, Other Schenn, Gudas, that's all off the top of my head. I know there are more if I dig. Players leave and do better. It's a long trend. And as I've said, development is not limited to prospects. Everyone should be constantly working on skills. Players erode here.

Speaking of fake news, simply stating "Ghost isn't better" doesn't make it true. This is why there's no point engaging you on this. You will decade yourself with any lie you need to so you can keep worshipping at the altar of the league's doormat, Chuck Fletcher.

 

[deadhead]

NAK, Ghost, Schenn, Vorobyev is coming out of the muck, Hartnell resurrected for a bit, Coburn, Other Schenn, Gudas, that's all off the top of my head. I know there are more if I dig. Players leave and do better. It's a long trend. And as I've said, development is not limited to prospects. Everyone should be constantly working on skills. Players erode here.

Speaking of fake news, simply stating "Ghost isn't better" doesn't make it true. This is why there's no point engaging you on this. You will decade yourself with any lie you need to so you can keep worshipping at the altar of the league's doormat, Chuck Fletcher.

Schenn was no better in St Louis than Philly, he had one big season then back to his norm. He was also 26 when he joined the Blues, entering his prime years. But the two previous seasons, he had 26 and 25 goals in Philly, where he was held back not by coaching, but the lack of talent to put together a second line around him.

Gudas was a 3rd pair D-man in Philly, Washington and Florida. Same player at each stop.

Hartnell? Same production his first two years in CBJ at 32 and 33 as in Philly at 29 and 31. Injured in 2012-13.

Vorobyev is playing better in his SECOND KHL season (meh first year) at 25 years old, but scoring at a lower rate than his AHL career, expected, b/c KHL is a tougher league. Still uncertain if he's improved enough to make a NHL team.

NAK is scoring at the same pace as 2019-20, he looked good in a half season, then regressed in 2020-21. He's also got a CFrel -3.41, xGFrel +0.39. He's improved, but not drastically. May simply be a better situation and a wake up call - we'll see if it's sustainable.

Coburn? He was a 3rd pair D-man in TB as soon as he arrived. Played 17:00 a night after he was traded in the playoffs.

The facts simply don't support your argument.

The Flyers haven't had a Verhaeghe, who was allowed to walk by TB and blossomed into a top forward in Florida.

 

[TB87]

Lindblom is rounding back into form, the wimp let something like cancer impact his play.

Excuse me, what the f*** is this?

it’s not okay to make jokes about cancer. Geeez

 

[Beef Invictus]

Schenn was no better in St Louis than Philly, he had one big season then back to his norm. He was also 26 when he joined the Blues, entering his prime years. But the two previous seasons, he had 26 and 25 goals in Philly, where he was held back not by coaching, but the lack of talent to put together a second line around him.

Gudas was a 3rd pair D-man in Philly, Washington and Florida. Same player at each stop.

Hartnell? Same production his first two years in CBJ at 32 and 33 as in Philly at 29 and 31. Injured in 2012-13.

Vorobyev is playing better in his SECOND KHL season (meh first year) at 25 years old, but scoring at a lower rate than his AHL career, expected, b/c KHL is a tougher league. Still uncertain if he's improved enough to make a NHL team.

NAK is scoring at the same pace as 2019-20, he looked good in a half season, then regressed in 2020-21. He's also got a CFrel -3.41, xGFrel +0.39. He's improved, but not drastically. May simply be a better situation and a wake up call - we'll see if it's sustainable.

Coburn? He was a 3rd pair D-man in TB as soon as he arrived. Played 17:00 a night after he was traded in the playoffs.

The facts simply don't support your argument.

The Flyers haven't had a Verhaeghe, who was allowed to walk by TB and blossomed into a top forward in Florida.

Yeah, you're just shitting forth whatever you need to in order to defend Flyers Management. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant, and all context inconvenient to your point must be deleted. This is a waste of time. I'm not going to debate delusions.

 

[mja]

Excuse me, what the f*** is this?

it’s not okay to make jokes about cancer. Geeez

Not to defend deady, who doesn't need it, but he was being sarcastic, i.e. saying that cancer understandably impacted his play.

 

[Curufinwe]

Gudas was a 2nd pair dman for most of his time in Philly, and had MUCH better on ice results than the guy Fletcher paid a 1st and a 2nd for this summer.

NAK's instantaneous turnaround in Colorado was a wake up call to the Flyers who are now stuck sending out AHL wingers on their 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[TB87]

Not to defend deady, who doesn't need it, but he was being sarcastic, i.e. saying that cancer understandably impacted his play.

Sarcasm is difficult for me to decipher via text lol.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

This thread has basically been a Dead v Beef deathmatch.

Now are we talking Onita/FMW death match?

 

[Curufinwe]

The Phantoms game tomorrow starts at 10:30 in the morning. They have a busy month, unlike the Flyers.

Wednesday, February 2, 2022 (10:30 AM) at Bridgeport Islanders
Friday, February 4, 2022 (7:05) PROVIDENCE BRUINS
Saturday, February 5, 2022 (5:00) at Hartford Wolf Pack
Tuesday, February 8, 2022 (7:05) BELLEVILLE SENATORS
Friday, February 11, 2022 (7:05) HERSHEY BEARS
Saturday, February 12, 2022 (7:05) WILKES-BARRE/SCRANTON PENGUINS
Sunday, February 13, 2022 (2:05) HERSHEY BEARS
Saturday, February 19, 2022 (7:05) UTICA COMETS
Sunday, February 20, 2022 (3:05) SPRINGFIELD THUNDERBIRDS
Wednesday, February 23, 2022 (7:05) at Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins
Friday, February 25, 2022 (7:00) at Cleveland Monsters
Saturday, February 26, 2022 (1:00) at Cleveland Monsters

 

[deadhead]

Excuse me, what the f*** is this?

it’s not okay to make jokes about cancer. Geeez

Hell. there's so much cancer in my family we have to joke about it.
Both grandmothers, one died in her 40s, Father, Sister, Aunt.

Humor is a way of coping with a capricious universe that can deal you a bad hand at any time.

 

[Tripod]

Yeah, you're just shitting forth whatever you need to in order to defend Flyers Management. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant, and all context inconvenient to your point must be deleted. This is a waste of time. I'm not going to debate delusions.

Psst.....

Brayden Schenn has been in StL for 5 years.

His 4 highest PPG seasons....all in StL....AND plays C. But he is the same there as in Philly.

 

[deadhead]

Gudas was a 2nd pair dman for most of his time in Philly, and had MUCH better on ice results than the guy Fletcher paid a 1st and a 2nd for this summer.

NAK's instantaneous turnaround in Colorado was a wake up call to the Flyers who are now stuck sending out AHL wingers on their 3rd and 4th lines.

2015-16: 4th in ES minutes at 16:58, just ahead of Medvedev 16:12, and Ghost 15:59
2016-17: 3rd in ES minutes at 17:19, just ahead of MDZ 17:16, AMac 17:08
2017-18: 6th in ES minutes at 15:10
2018-19: 4th in ES minutes at 15:13, just ahead of Hagg at 15:07
2019-20: 5th in ES minutes (6th after Dillon was acquired) at 13:56
2020-21: 5th in ES minutes (6th after Montour was acquired) at 15:33
2021-22: 4th in ES minutes at 16:36

 

[deadhead]

Psst.....

Brayden Schenn has been in StL for 5 years.

His 4 highest PPG seasons....all in StL....AND plays C. But he is the same there as in Philly.

2013-14: 1.75 ES/60
2014-15: 1.46 ES/60
2015-16: 2.08 ES/60
2016-17: 1.46 ES/60

2017-18: 2.34 ES/60
2018-19: 2.25 ES/60
2019-20: 2.04 ES/60
2021-21: 1.81 ES/60
Schenn was a better scorer in St Louis, but was that coaching, scheme or just a player entering their peak years from 26-27 years old.
He had played under Berube in Philly, then under Berube in St Louis.

if you miss Schenn so much, you should hope Hayes gets healthy:
2014-15: 2.47 ES/60
2015-16: 1.88 ES/60
2016-17: 2.02 ES/60
2017-18: 1.92 ES/60
2018-19: 2.47 ES/60
2019-20: 1.87 ES/60
2020-21: 1.76 ES/60 (playing injured)

 

[Tripod]

This just in, PP points count too.

 

[pit]

It must be such a time commitment to hunt down a singular set of stats that fit a very narrow narrative instead of the facts at hand that address the overall point.

 

[deadhead]

This just in, PP points count too.

PP points are skewed by usage, so if you want to compare two players, compare their 5x5 or ES play.
Then consider PP and PK play separately as "added value."

PP scoring is only valuable "above average" since almost any forward on PP1 will garner 10-15 points.
And if you're gonna value PP, you also have to value PK play, since they're essentially mirror images.

 

[Curufinwe]

2015-16: 4th in ES minutes at 16:58, just ahead of Medvedev 16:12, and Ghost 15:59
2016-17: 3rd in ES minutes at 17:19, just ahead of MDZ 17:16, AMac 17:08
2017-18: 6th in ES minutes at 15:10
2018-19: 4th in ES minutes at 15:13, just ahead of Hagg at 15:07
2019-20: 5th in ES minutes (6th after Dillon was acquired) at 13:56
2020-21: 5th in ES minutes (6th after Montour was acquired) at 15:33
2021-22: 4th in ES minutes at 16:36

Any particular reason you left out GP? Just your usual bad faith nonsense, I assume. Let’s quickly expose just how full of shit you are.

In 15-16 when he was “just ahead” of Medvedev, Gudas played 76 games and Medvedev only played 45. MacDonald only played 28 games, and that was only after MDZ got hurt. That’s why his average ES TOI was inflated up to 17:33. By your simple minded analysis, AMac was the #2 dman on the 15-16 Flyers even though he spent most of the season in the AHL.

In 16-17 when you claim Gudas was only 3rd in ES minutes, Hagg is in the number one spot at 19:45. Except he only played one game. One.