Prospect Info: Phantoms (AHL), Reading Royals (ECHL), NCAA, Jrs., Int'l, etc. [The June 2022 Edition]

[Cody Webster]

To me, Cates is more like pre-cancer LIndblom, just a very smart player who plays above his skill set. Which has improved substantially.
I feel in love at the WJC-20 years ago, when he was a "swiss army knife."

Watching him in the college playoffs I was less impressed, but after seeing him in the NHL, it's obvious that MInn-Duluth's style of play suppresses offensive creativity - because he looked much better as a NHL player.

I think he could be a 2LW/3LW, depending on the mix, like Lindblom, he does the dirty work so he's a good fit with more offensively inclined linemates where he CYA for their risk taking (LIndblom was probably the only forward who didn't play better with Couts, maybe b/c their skill sets were a big redundant). He's a good fit for Frost, and probably would be for Hayes as well.

Stylistically, I think Tippett is more like Laughton, both have speed with good size, both have some sklll but probably not enough to be a top 6 player. Both are good fits for Tort's aggressive forecheck scheme. I think Tippett would be a good fit for an aggressive PK, but he'll have to improve his accuracy to deserve time on PP2.

and what exactly do you think happens in Philly?

 

[FlyguyOX]

Like Laughton good, or gooder than that?

Cates is 23 now, and since he turned 23, Laughton has scored 129 P (122 ES, 1 PP, 6 SH) in 332 games. That's 32 P per 82 games with almost zero PP time.

40-50+ points/yr in your top 6 driving play for stars good.

 

[deadhead]

and what exactly do you think happens in Philly?

Not under Torts, his teams are generally in the top 10, many in the top 5, in xGF/60.
And even under Yeo, the team was more wide open than under AV.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not under Torts, his teams are generally in the top 10, many in the top 5, in xGF/60.
And even under Yeo, the team was more wide open than under AV.

And yet actual production falls short of that.

 

[renberg]

and what exactly do you think happens in Philly?

New coach so who knows? After the Hitchcock and Stevens years of no offense, who would have believed that the team could turn it on as the did with Laviolette? Coaches and systems make differences.
Right now it all depends on whether Fletcher gets out of the way with these veteran clunkers and allows Tortorella to have his way with the younger guys. I don't believe that the old slugs will be able to keep up with Torts' style of play for more than fifteen games such less an entire season. Better to start off with new blood and teach them the new way.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

These fans would rather see their players get pummeled than have the audacity to let Chris Stewart show them a few self-defense tips.

The Flyers were 11th in the NHL in fighting majors last season, more than 3 of the 4 Conference finalists, including the Stanley Cup winner, so fans of fighting got their fill.

Seems like some fans would rather see a 30 second side show than their team actually win hockey games, though.

The Oilers finished tied for last in fighting majors in 21/22. Has any of their off-season talk been about how McDavid and Draisaitl need to be protected more because teams are taking liberties?

Fighting has its place, though that place is increasingly irrelevant. At the end of the day, I couldn't care less about Chris Stewart teaching someone to fight. Him doing so doesn't put more points on the Flyers' standings tally. Had he not done it, it wouldn't have taken points away. It's just another talking point in an off-season following one of the worst on ice performances in team history where almost nothing was done to improve the team in the aftermath.

 

[Beef Invictus]

New coach so who knows? After the Hitchcock and Stevens years of no offense, who would have believed that the team could turn it on as the did with Laviolette? Coaches and systems make differences.
Right now it all depends on whether Fletcher gets out of the way with these veteran clunkers and allows Tortorella to have his way with the younger guys. I don't believe that the old slugs will be able to keep up with Torts' style of play for more than fifteen games such less an entire season. Better to start off with new blood and teach them the new way.

Tortorella isn't Lavi

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Lappy:

"I'm not a dinosaur, I know it's 2022 hockey, but it's still part of the game," Laperriere said. "Ginning, who had a big hit in Game 1 and somebody jumped him, he didn't know what to do. He had one glove on, one glove off. I told those kids, 'You should go chat with Stewie and ask him questions, he knows more than all of us.'

"If you get in that situation — we want you to be physical, you don't have to fight, I don't believe in fighting in hockey anymore — but it does happen. Better be safe than sorry. At least you'll know how to protect yourself.

"Obviously they listened because I think we had 20 guys in the corner with Stewie. It's going to help them. Also, knowing how to defend yourself, you know you don't need to change your [playing] style."

Laperriere sees a prospect making the Flyers, fights and more as rookie camp ends

From Noah Cates’ roster push to fighting tips, here are three observations as Flyers rookie training camp wrapped up Sunday. By Jordan Hall

www.nbcsports.com

Wondering what the downside is to having Stewart after practice showing someone how to defend themselves. Did it take time away for other drills?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Flyers were 11th in the NHL in fighting majors last season, more than 3 of the 4 Conference finalists, including the Stanley Cup winner, so fans of fighting got their fill.

Seems like some fans would rather see a 30 second side show than their team actually win hockey games, though.

The Oilers finished tied for last in fighting majors in 21/22. Has any of their off-season talk been about how McDavid and Draisaitl need to be protected more because teams are taking liberties?

Fighting has its place, though that place is increasingly irrelevant. At the end of the day, I couldn't care less about Chris Stewart teaching someone to fight. Him doing so doesn't put more points on the Flyers' standings tally. Had he not done it, it wouldn't have taken points away. It's just another talking point in an off-season following one of the worst on ice performances in team history where almost nothing was done to improve the team in the aftermath.

What point you are trying to make?

Chris Stewart was offering self-defense pointers to a bunch of rookies. Are you saying the media should have refrained from reporting it?

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

What point you are trying to make?

Chris Stewart was offering self-defense pointers to a bunch of rookies. Are you saying the media should have refrained from reporting it?

My reply was to you making a ridiculous hyperbolic comment that fans would rather see Flyers players beaten up than have a coach teach them how to fight.

My general point, though, is that it doesn't matter. Media is entitled to report whatever they want; it doesn't need to be a multiple days long story amongst the fans. This was a nothing story.

 

[EXTRAS]

Opinions on JR Avon

 

[deadhead]

The Flyers were 11th in the NHL in fighting majors last season, more than 3 of the 4 Conference finalists, including the Stanley Cup winner, so fans of fighting got their fill.

Seems like some fans would rather see a 30 second side show than their team actually win hockey games, though.

The Oilers finished tied for last in fighting majors in 21/22. Has any of their off-season talk been about how McDavid and Draisaitl need to be protected more because teams are taking liberties?

Fighting has its place, though that place is increasingly irrelevant. At the end of the day, I couldn't care less about Chris Stewart teaching someone to fight. Him doing so doesn't put more points on the Flyers' standings tally. Had he not done it, it wouldn't have taken points away. It's just another talking point in an off-season following one of the worst on ice performances in team history where almost nothing was done to improve the team in the aftermath.

I think Lappy had it right, it isn't about wanting players to fight, it's about players finding themselves in a situation where they feel compelled to fight but haven't a clue and get pummeled. Like being challenged after a hard but clean check. If they "play hard," hitting in the flow of the game (as opposed to chasing hits), they're likely to get into contentious situations.

All they have to be able to do is hold their own for 30 seconds before the Refs break it up.

 

[mr4tno]

Cates is going to be so damn good. I've been beating this drum since last season.

As ong as they don't feel compelled to play him with his brother

 

[mr4tno]

Wondering what the downside is to having Stewart after practice showing someone how to defend themselves. Did it take time away for other drills?

On any other franchise this doesn't even make the back page. But on this franchise, that is stuck in the past, it is damn scary for those of use that enjoy watching good hockey. For any Flyers management reading this, "good hockey" means skating ability, crisp and accurate passing and shooting.

 

[deadhead]

On any other franchise this doesn't even make the back page. But on this franchise, that is stuck in the past, it is damn scary for those of use that enjoy watching good hockey. For any Flyers management reading this, "good hockey" means skating ability, crisp and accurate passing and shooting.

Good hockey also includes skating hard without the puck, finishing checks on the forecheck, and back checking as fast as you skated up on a potential scoring play. And proper positioning on defense and avoiding careless penalties and using your stick (hooking, tripping) instead of moving your skates.

In other words, play like Couts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Wondering what the downside is to having Stewart after practice showing someone how to defend themselves. Did it take time away for other drills?

Do you think they placed this kind of special emphasis on other drills? I doubt it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Good hockey also includes skating hard without the puck, finishing checks on the forecheck, and back checking as fast as you skated up on a potential scoring play. And proper positioning on defense and avoiding careless penalties and using your stick (hooking, tripping) instead of moving your skates.

In other words, play like Couts.

So a bunch of stuff Fletcher doesn't value

 

[Beef Invictus]

Here's the fun thing in the NHL, thanks to rule changes self defense consists of laughing at whoever is trying to fight you and skating away to enjoy your power play.

So let's not pretend it has a scrap of defensible utility.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Do you think they placed this kind of special emphasis on other drills? I doubt it.

Appreciate your answer to the question.

 

[deadhead]

Opinions on JR Avon

I wondered why he was MIA, then I found this on Meltzer: "Center prospect JR Avon missed both games due to injury."

He showed speed and skill in last year's TC, and had a decent season in the OHL after missing the entire 2020-21 campaign.
I want to see him step up from a PPG pace to something close to 1.3-1.4 PPG or so in his PD+2 season, he's had a chance to play a full year, should have bulked up from his pre-draft 6'0 174.

Keep in mind he's a July birthday, and missed a full season after struggling at age 16, so there should be upside left after this season, but you want to see progress.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Do you think they placed this kind of special emphasis on other drills? I doubt it.

Does JVR teach the drill how to get your money's worth from the Chinese Buffet?

 

[Magua]

Not everyone has to play like Couturier. Not everyone can succeed playing like that, no differently than Couturier can't succeed playing like Kucherov, an all-time playoff performer. Teams need variating skillsets, and not the useless ones certain teams prioritize. The rigidity to defining what is objectively good and bad hockey is maddening.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not everyone has to play like Couturier. Not everyone can succeed playing like that, no differently than Couturier can succeed playing like Kucherov. Teams need variating skillsets. The rigidity to defining what is good and bad hockey is maddening.

Attempting to fit everyone into limited dipshit molds is why the Flyers are bad.

 

[deadhead]

Not everyone has to play like Couturier. Not everyone can succeed playing like that, no differently than Couturier can't succeed playing like Kucherov, an all-time playoff performer. Teams need variating skillsets, and not the useless ones certain teams prioritize. The rigidity to defining what is objectively good and bad hockey is maddening.

Offensive players can still have good fundamentals and try on defense, or why I'd take Robert Thomas but not Kyrou at $8M.

Or why the less physically talented Giroux was a better player than Voracek.

I don't expect TK to be a Selke candidate, but he learned to stop cherry picking and get back on defense, and was still a valuable player last year despite a horrific shooting slump b/c he improved his all around game.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Offensive players can still have good fundamentals and try on defense, or why I'd take Robert Thomas but not Kyrou at $8M.

Or why the less physically talented Giroux was a better player than Voracek.

I don't expect TK to be a Selke candidate, but he learned to stop cherry picking and get back on defense, and was still a valuable player last year despite a horrific shooting slump b/c he improved his all around game.

Giroux isn't less talented than Voracek. How do you dream this stuff up?