Confirmed with Link: Phaneuf's Contract Talk Pt.2 - 7yrs/49million

[21JVR*]

Then why does he wear the C?

I have a lot less of a problem with him if the front of his Jersey only has a maple leaf
Why doesn't carlyle pair gardiner with him them? Struggling young dman with lots of potential. If dion makes everyone look so good get gardiner in there to get some confidence back. This situation is exactly where a mentor/leader should be utilized

Also if he is doesn't wear C then who will be the captain in your eyes?

 

[yubbers]

How does gleason look top pairing? He's a minus 4 and we haven't won a game since he arrived. Dions a -5 in the same time frame.

Gunnerson +1

So who's making who look good?

 

[yubbers]

Also if he is doesn't wear C then who will be the captain in your eyes?

Id run no C till we have one.

 

[21JVR*]

How does gleason look top pairing? He's a minus 4 and we haven't won a game since he arrived. Dions a -5 in the same time frame.

Gunnerson +1

So who's making who look good?

It's useless to argue with the kind of stats you presented there. You win Phaneuf is a #4 guy on any team.

 

[yubbers]

I didn't say that. I don't see how those stats are pointless. I understand +/- isn't the full story but those numbers kinda make you wonder. The dion supporters use +/- to show how solid he is playing the toughest minutes. The last 4 games numbers make it look like gunnerson is insulating Phaneuf no?

 

[mcfifty]

I didn't say that. I don't see how those stats are pointless. I understand +/- isn't the full story but those numbers kinda make you wonder. The dion supporters use +/- to show how solid he is playing the toughest minutes. The last 4 games numbers make it look like gunnerson is insulating Phaneuf no?

Are you stating that you believe if Gunnarson had been in the line-up the past four games that somehow, we would have scored more than 7 goals and there would be a different outcome? Using the past 4 games as a sample size to further your slander against Phaneuf is ridiculous.

Franson past 5 games, -9
Rielly, -2
Ranger, -3

etc.

The whole team has played like junk over the past few games. Of course our D's and Golaies numbers are going to be horrible. However, if you are going to crucify anyone on D, it has to be Franson. Watching him is starting to become painful at times, especially seeing him constantly getting beat on the outside. BTW, I really liked Franson, but he is not playing up to snuff any more.

 

[21JVR*]

I didn't say that. I don't see how those stats are pointless. I understand +/- isn't the full story but those numbers kinda make you wonder. The dion supporters use +/- to show how solid he is playing the toughest minutes. The last 4 games numbers make it look like gunnerson is insulating Phaneuf no?

I think you don't watch the games do you? You are just suggesting everything based on the +/- stats.

Gunnarson played 5:06 mins against NYR(7-1), did not play against NYI(5-3), played 21:54 against CAR(6-1) and was 0, played 19:46 against WSH(3-2) and was -1.

He played against Det and was +2. Just hold your horses because your comments are way off just like your knowledge.

 

[yubbers]

I stand corrected. Viewing the last 5 games didn't display the missed night

Doesn't really change my point though. Phaneuf is not making Gleason look good and both their numbers show it.
And using " the whole team has been playing awful " to defend Captain Dion is ridiculous. You're hurting your own agrgument

 

[The_Chosen_One]

I stand corrected. Viewing the last 5 games didn't display the missed night

Doesn't really change my point though. Phaneuf is not making Gleason look good and both their numbers show it.

It's a pretty low sample size as well. The +/- metric has a pretty significant luck component as well. Also, Dion's minutes ( in terms of CORSI Rel QoC) is a lot heavier than Gunnarsson and Gleason. Even when watching the game, Dion is expected to the first on the ice once the top line are fielded and the last off the ice. Usually that could negatively affect one's personal statistics.

 

[Gallagbi]

I stand corrected. Viewing the last 5 games didn't display the missed night

Doesn't really change my point though. Phaneuf is not making Gleason look good and both their numbers show it.
And using " the whole team has been playing awful " to defend Captain Dion is ridiculous. You're hurting your own agrgument

How were the GA? One was a weak wrister Bernier let in, the other was a shot from outside the blue line. I don't think Gleason and Phaneuf were on for another GA together. Phaneuf was on for an EN, SH then a goal with Gunnar.

 

[number72]

Who ever said we would regret Phaneuf's contract and not trading by the end of the season was 100% correct. With the ongoing shot differential collapse predicted by corsi, it is clear that a smarter GM would have traded Phaneuf for picks and prospects just like the advanced stats fold pointed out

 

[The_Chosen_One]

How were the GA? One was a weak writer Bernier let in, the other was a shot from outside the blue line. I don't think Gleason and Phaneuf were on for another GA together. Phaneuf was on for an EN, SH then a goal with Gunnar.

Well said. By looking quality of the goals, we can really understand why the stats show up the way it does. Neither Bernier or Riemer are consistent enough.

 

[21JVR*]

How does gleason look top pairing? He's a minus 4 and we haven't won a game since he arrived. Dions a -5 in the same time frame.

Gunnerson +1

So who's making who look good?

I stand corrected. Viewing the last 5 games didn't display the missed night

Doesn't really change my point though. Phaneuf is not making Gleason look good and both their numbers show it.
And using " the whole team has been playing awful " to defend Captain Dion is ridiculous. You're hurting your own agrgument

Oh boy! You are wrong again. If you talk about last 5 games he played he will be +3. Just stop already you know nothing about the games and came here to criticize players in free time.

 

[hotpaws]

Well said. By looking quality of the goals, we can really understand why the stats show up the way it does. Neither Bernier or Riemer are consistent enough.

You should also look at the quality of saves our goalies have made this season as well .

 

[Pi]

Well said. By looking quality of the goals, we can really understand why the stats show up the way it does. Neither Bernier or Riemer are consistent enough.

This has to be the biggest joke ever.

Nobody can play consistently in front of this defense. It's a mess. Absolutely garbage.

The fact that they manage to keep us in the games where we get badly outshot should be a testament to their skill and willpower.

Our goalies have never been the problem this year.

When you get heavily outshot, the last thing you can do is place blame on the goalies.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

People say Dion is a top 20 Dman, but what kind of top 20 Dman can only play well when he has a stable presence like Gunnarssson on his side? (And IIRC, Dion hasn't been compatible with any other defenseman in many years now)

Good teams play rookies with their top defender so they can balance out as well as rookie (or Dmen on ELC) learning from the veteran (Chara-Hamilton for example). But God forbid Leafs ever did that and pair Phaneuf with anyone not named Gunnarsson, it is pretty much guaranteed to be a disaster.

What are the 7 million for then? Gunnarsson has even helped hide Franson's mistakes when they were paired together. Makes you wonder that who is helping who look better in that 36/3 pairing than he actually is.

 

[yubbers]

Oh boy! You are wrong again. If you talk about last 5 games he played he will be +3. Just stop already you know nothing about the games and came here to criticize players in free time.

Wasnt including the WC as Gleason had not arrived. On the nhl sites they have that last 5 games view which is what I was referring to. The last 4 games is where the numbers were being compared. You Dion guys are so hilarious. If only you had good things about his game to defend him with instead of pointing out his critics are wrong. nice try though

 

[number72]

People say Dion is a top 20 Dman, but what kind of top 20 Dman can only play well when he has a stable presence like Gunnarssson on his side? (And IIRC, Dion hasn't been compatible with any other defenseman in many years now)

Good teams play rookies with their top defender so they can balance out as well as rookie (or Dmen on ELC) learning from the veteran (Chara-Hamilton for example). But God forbid Leafs ever did that and pair Phaneuf with anyone not named Gunnarsson, it is pretty much guaranteed to be a disaster.

What are the 7 million for then? Gunnarsson has even helped hide Franson's mistakes when they were paired together. Makes you wonder that who is helping who look better in that 36/3 pairing than he actually is.

What a terrible roster rebuilt we have undertaken. BOzak, Kessel and Phaneuf. This team is going to contend for the wild card playoffs spot forever. And never much for cup or a playoff run

 

[mcfifty]

I stand corrected. Viewing the last 5 games didn't display the missed night

Doesn't really change my point though. Phaneuf is not making Gleason look good and both their numbers show it.
And using " the whole team has been playing awful " to defend Captain Dion is ridiculous. You're hurting your own agrgument

When your forwards are turning over the puck at the blue line, you lose defensive zone face offs, and the whole team is having a hard time completing a pass, it does make for a valid argument that it isn't Dion's fault. Kadri's line has been horrible in their own end, and who ever is unfortunate to be out with them on D is being punished for it as well. Franson has been atrocious, and is easily our worst defender at the moment. Over the last five games both Kadri and Lupul are -5, and Franson is -9. I have seen Kadri twice turn it over at the blue line resulting in a goal (cycle sustained that led to goal at least due to his failure). When the team isn't scoring it is also going to have a VERY negative affect on +/- stat.

Have you watched the past 4 games at all? Based on your opinion I am doubting you have. Take off your blinders and stop formulating your opinion based solely on stats.

 

[yubbers]

Are you ****ing kidding me. The whole reason you guys praise him this year is due to his misleading good numbers. In my example stats work against him and now it doesn't matter? Wow

 

[mcfifty]

Are you ****ing kidding me. The whole reason you guys praise him this year is due to his misleading good numbers. In my example stats work against him and now it doesn't matter? Wow

I personally never used CORSI or anything else in ANY of my posts. So I don't know what you are talking about. As I stated, I formulate my opinion on players by watching them.

I could make an argument using a 4 game slide of ANY team to justify hating on an elite player as well, how valid would it be?

 

[happyaccident]

When your forwards are turning over the puck at the blue line, you lose defensive zone face offs, and the whole team is having a hard time completing a pass, it does make for a valid argument that it isn't Dion's fault. Kadri's line has been horrible in their own end, and who ever is unfortunate to be out with them on D is being punished for it as well. Franson has been atrocious, and is easily our worst defender at the moment. Over the last five games both Kadri and Lupul are -5, and Franson is -9. I have seen Kadri twice turn it over at the blue line resulting in a goal (cycle sustained that led to goal at least due to his failure). When the team isn't scoring it is also going to have a VERY negative affect on +/- stat.

Have you watched the past 4 games at all? Based on your opinion I am doubting you have. Take off your blinders and stop formulating your opinion based solely on stats.

It's not just the forwards in the d-zone, it's Randy's chaseless dump that is making things hard on the D. Pass to the boards and chip-in, 3 forwards go stumbling in after it as the opponents easily skate it the other way. Opponents use the neutral zone as a ramp-up, like that machine you would put your hot-wheels through and fling them out. Our D is always facing an onslaught.
That's not to excuse them either, they're still playing putrid, you've got a brutal system, combined with a group that is not nearly good enough to overcome it. Randy hockey. And watching Franson truly has become PAINFUL but he has yet to sit a single game. Randy must be afraid of him.

 

[Liminality]

Are you ****ing kidding me. The whole reason you guys praise him this year is due to his misleading good numbers. In my example stats work against him and now it doesn't matter? Wow

The reason why people have been praising him this year is cause he's looked good. Gleason is worse than Gunnarsson, is that the point here?

 

[yubbers]

Fair enough. I didn't mean to clump you in with others.

You don't think I watch, I don't think you watch because our opinions are opposite. This all started with me showing his stats and our record since he inked his deal. And they're ugly. Of course I will use this to try and validate my point of view

 

[Leafidelity]

You Dion haters are a great source of humour for me. Two sets of coaches, two gms and most of the fanbase knows he's a good defenseman. But somehow you few have the inside track on this player. You know something the rest of the world doesn't. The Captain argument is the cherry on the cake, as if you know enough about him as a person from watching televised hockey games.

Tough times these days to be a Leafs fan, but you guys still give this Leafs fan a chuckle through it all.