Rumor: Phaneuf may be in play

[Jtabo]

Thats not the reason you trade him. You trade him because like Bozak, he was put into a position that is over his head. Crappy management. Good management puts the right people in the right place at the right time. Abbott and Costello (the fat blowhard and his college buddy joke of a coach)....failed to do this multiple times. Now we have a decent defenseman in Phaneuf who was given captaincy and 25+ minutes a game when he deserves neither. We have a undrafted college boy who probably would have been an effective 3rd or 4th line center...way over his head playing first line minutes and as a result padding his resume...making his agent believe he is worth far more than what he deserves.

Thats what crappy management does. Uses resources incorrectly.

You sure your talking about Phaneuf? His situation would be above anyone's head. Not because he shouldn't be a #1, but because he has no support. You can't blame no support on Phaneuf. You woupdnt blame a #1 center for not producing and being put in a bad situation if the only wingers you could muster for him were Colton Orr and BizNasty.

Edit: Bozak is being Hauled by linemates, Phaneuf is hauling a d core. Big difference.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

You sure your talking about Phaneuf? His situation would be above anyone's head. Not because he shouldn't be a #1, but because he has no support. You can't blame no support on Phaneuf. You woupdnt blame a #1 center for not producing and being put in a bad situation if the only wingers you could muster for him were Colton Orr and BizNasty.

Edit: Bozak is being Hauled by linemates, Phaneuf is hauling a d core. Big difference.

Cop out . Great defenseman should make their partners better. Look at what Andre Markov did for the AHLer Mike Komisarek. Made him a rich man. Excuses are for losers and Carl Gunnarsson is a very capable defenseman. Not sure what your analogy with Colton Orr and BizNasty is. In fact when fans pointed to the great season Ian White had playing with Nik Lidstrom....Leaf fans quickly dismissed it, claiming White only shone because of his defensive partner. Which is it?

Furthermore Mats Sundin made Jonas Hoglund a 30 goal scorer. Kessel and Lupul made Bozak a 50pt Center. These guys elevated these losers without losing any cred themselves. Thats what truly great players do. They don't point fingers at the other players on the ice for their own shortcomings. Losers do that.

 

[bruyns]

Cop out . Great defenseman should make their partners better. Look at what Andre Markov did for the AHLer Mike Komisarek. Made him a rich man. Excuses are for losers and Carl Gunnarsson is a very capable defenseman. Not sure what your analogy with Colton Orr and BizNasty is. In fact when fans pointed to the great season Ian White had playing with Nik Lidstrom....Leaf fans quickly dismissed it, claiming White only shone because of his defensive partner. Which is it?

Furthermore Mats Sundin made Jonas Hoglund a 30 goal scorer. Kessel and Lupul made Bozak a 50pt Center. These guys elevated these losers without losing any cred themselves. Thats what truly great players do. They don't point fingers at the other players on the ice for their own shortcomings. Losers do that.

Phaneuf didn't make career AHLer Kostka look better? Also in your previous post you mentioned Phaneuf doesn't deserve to be playing 25min a night, who should be playing those minutes then?

 

[Morguee]

If the rumours are true I am happy with what Nonis & co. are doing in regards to trying the Lecavalier trade and floating Dion out there.

Dion is a very good d-man but he is not untouchable. You have to look at the broader picture not just this or next year but 5 years and beyond. If Dion does not fit in that plan then trading him now is good asset management. If the Leafs are in a playoff position come trade deadline they cannot trade him and at the end of the year they may be left no assets what so ever as he can walk away.

We do not know what or if any contract talks are. If they have had preliminary talks and the numbers, term and conditions do not fit in the long term plan then he should be traded. Trading him may be a case of short term pain for long term gain. In the past the Leafs have too often been guilty of short term gain for long term pain.

I for one want a perennial playoff team not just another playoff round next year.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Phaneuf didn't make career AHLer Kostka look better? Also in your previous post you mentioned Phaneuf doesn't deserve to be playing 25min a night, who should be playing those minutes then?

Leafs don't have a defenseman on the roster who should play those minutes. Simple. You split the time up by committee until you have a D-man capable of playing 25+ minutes. Phaneuf is not that guy.

I don't really care what other fans think of Dion. Like I don't care what they think of Burke. Management of the team is the only opinion that matters. Now that the team is in better hands, I believe the right judgements will be made. Phaneuf fanclub will be disappointed much like the Burkites.

Bottom line is..Leafs need a Stanley Cup appearance and eventually a Cup win. If that doesn't include Dion Phaneuf.....I couldn't care less.

 

[mashedpotato]

Sign Letang. Trade Phaneuf for 1C.

What's the problem?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Sign Letang. Trade Phaneuf for 1C.

What's the problem?

Boom.....no problem here.

 

[bruyns]

Leafs don't have a defenseman on the roster who should play those minutes. Simple. You split the time up by committee until you have a D-man capable of playing 25+ minutes. Phaneuf is not that guy.

I don't really care what other fans think of Dion. Like I don't care what they think of Burke. Management of the team is the only opinion that matters. Now that the team is in better hands, I believe the right judgements will be made. Phaneuf fanclub will be disappointed much like the Burkites.

Bottom line is..Leafs need a Stanley Cup appearance and eventually a Cup win. If that doesn't include Dion Phaneuf.....I couldn't care less.

You conveniently skipped the part about Phaneuf making career AHLers look like NHL players. You don't think Kostka's play was elevated due to Phanuef? You think Kostka would have looked better with another D partner?

So the minutes are split by committee in your opinion, can I ask you on the Leafs blue line who should have been recieving more minutes and how much should Phaneuf be playing?

You might not like Phaneuf, but was he not the best option available for the team and hence was he not deserving of his minutes? Once again if you disagree feel free to share how you feel the defensive minutes should have been distributed last season.

 

[bruyns]

Boom.....no problem here.

Really? No problem? What about the problem that Letang is under contract the Leafs can't simply "sign him" as suggested. The Pens aren't going to let him walk, they either resign him or trade him for a big return similar to J. Staal.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

You conveniently skipped the part about Phaneuf making career AHLers look like NHL players. You don't think Kostka's play was elevated due to Phanuef? You think Kostka would have looked better with another D partner?

So the minutes are split by committee in your opinion, can I ask you on the Leafs blue line who should have been recieving more minutes and how much should Phaneuf be playing?

You might not like Phaneuf, but was he not the best option available for the team and hence was he not deserving of his minutes? Once again if you disagree feel free to share how you feel the defensive minutes should have been distributed last season.

Again when you have a high opinion of a player..you don't believe others could do his job. So we never see eye to eye. Again...with all due respect..your opinion of Phaneuf like mine means nothing. I don't actually care what you think of him no more than you care what I think of him. I am telling you..I believe Nonis and MLSE are looking to head in a different direction. Phaneuf is Burke's leader. Pretty common in the corporate world to remove the disciples of the leader they axe. The Leafs have not had great leadership under Phaneuf. A couple of epic collapses need to fall on the leaders shoulders...Phaneuf is definitely one of the leaders when he wears the C.

 

[mashedpotato]

Really? No problem? What about the problem that Letang is under contract the Leafs can't simply "sign him" as suggested. The Pens aren't going to let him walk, they either resign him or trade him for a big return similar to J. Staal.

Open up the discussion to what the Pens would likely be able to accept for a deal for a Latang that a) they cant sign, b) wants to come here; A la J.Staal.

 

[bruyns]

Again when you have a high opinion of a player..you don't believe others could do his job. So we never see eye to eye. Again...with all due respect..your opinion of Phaneuf like mine means nothing. I don't actually care what you think of him no more than you care what I think of him. I am telling you..I believe Nonis and MLSE are looking to head in a different direction. Phaneuf is Burke's leader. Pretty common in the corporate world to remove the disciples of the leader they axe. The Leafs have not had great leadership under Phaneuf. A couple of epic collapses need to fall on the leaders shoulders...Phaneuf is definitely one of the leaders when he wears the C.

Let me get this straight, you called someone else's response to you a cop out? You completely ignored all my questions to you and talked about things I never brought up. I never said my opinion or how high it was on Phaneuf.

You made a claim that he was undeserving of his minutes and doesn't make others better. I refuted that and asked if he didn't deserve his minutes what what be your distribution of minutes on the back end?

Nonis also responded on radio that yes he expected Phaneuf in a Leafs uniform next season, so I wouldn't get your hopes up that they are going in a different direction.

Lastly can you give any NHL examples of this: "Pretty common in the corporate world to remove the disciples of the leader they axe" This isn't the corporate world and I can't think of any examples where new GMs come in and trade one of the more talented players and captain solely because he was the captain of the previous regime.

 

[Pyromaniac3]

Again when you have a high opinion of a player..you don't believe others could do his job. So we never see eye to eye. Again...with all due respect..your opinion of Phaneuf like mine means nothing. I don't actually care what you think of him no more than you care what I think of him. I am telling you..I believe Nonis and MLSE are looking to head in a different direction. Phaneuf is Burke's leader. Pretty common in the corporate world to remove the disciples of the leader they axe. The Leafs have not had great leadership under Phaneuf. A couple of epic collapses need to fall on the leaders shoulders...Phaneuf is definitely one of the leaders when he wears the C.

Why don't we trade Lupul while we are at it. He was one of the leader of 2 big collapses in 2 years. Plus this guy can barely stay healthy.

You know what's funny? It is widely known that Nonis did most of the work in acquiring Phaneuf and Aulie. So I am not sure where you get that Phaneuf is Burke's leader thing.

Make no miistake about it, if we trade Phaneuf we will regress. We will most likely miss the playoffs. Depending on the return and development of the prospects, we might be better but there is an incredible risk in trading Phaneuf.

 

[bruyns]

Why don't we trade Lupul while we are at it. He was one of the leader of 2 big collapses in 2 years. Plus this guy can barely stay healthy.

You know what's funny? It is widely known that Nonis did most of the work in acquiring Phaneuf and Aulie. So I am not sure where you get that Phaneuf is Burke's leader thing.

Make no miistake about it, if we trade Phaneuf we will regress. We will most likely miss the playoffs. Depending on the return and development of the prospects, we might be better but there is an incredible risk in trading Phaneuf.

Whatever hockeyfanz is doing with the quotes is annoying and making it confusing as to who posted what in this thread. Hopefully people don't skim through this thread and think I'm ignorant enough to post what was quoted in Pyromaniac's post since I didn't write it even though it looks like I did.

 

[mashedpotato]

I think regress is a little strong considering we don't know what the actual return on a trade-for-Phanuef would be. If there isn't a 1:1 trade that retains strength on defence, it's possible Nonis would consider gain in the aggregate.

 

[Pyromaniac3]

I think regress is a little strong considering we don't know what the actual return on a trade-for-Phanuef would be. If there isn't a 1:1 trade that retains strength on defence, it's possible Nonis would consider gain in the aggregate.

I seriously don't think other GMs will offer someone that is as good as Phaneuf is now for him. It would be lateral move then.

Throughout the Boston series, our issues was highlighted 10 times. It seems that Carlyle can't trust anyone other than Phaneuf to shut down Krejci line, and here we are trying to take away that person.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I seriously don't think other GMs will offer someone that is as good as Phaneuf is now for him. It would be lateral move then.

Throughout the Boston series, our issues was highlighted 10 times. It seems that Carlyle can't trust anyone other than Phaneuf to shut down Krejci line, and here we are trying to take away that person.

This is what I don't understand. Shouldn't the focus be acquiring another suitable defenseman to pair with him? Is my logic that flawed.

 

[bruyns]

This is what I don't understand. Shouldn't the focus be acquiring another suitable defenseman to pair with him? Is my logic that flawed.

No the only flaw in logic is the one possessed by posters who think trading Phaneuf would improve our team in the present or even worse think it would be addition by subtraction.

 

[Fogelhund]

Toronto fans love their scapegoats.

Phaneuf isn't perfect, he makes mistakes. Under the Toronto microscope, these get exaggerated.

Having said that, statistically he was the D player that played the hardest minutes in the NHL. Meaning he had the toughest opponents to play against.

Most of his big mistakes have come late in games... the main issue is he is played too much. Top ten in D scoring, Top ten in hits... not just last year either.

That said I am not opposed to trading him at all. If we can upgrade at any spot, for the right price I do that deal. It is all about improving the team, and we all need to be able to look objectively at the team, not just love every player and prospect, or blindly hate them. (and there are plenty of both in this thread).

 

[The Apologist]

Phaneuf didn't make career AHLer Kostka look better? Also in your previous post you mentioned Phaneuf doesn't deserve to be playing 25min a night, who should be playing those minutes then?

No kidding. The names Aulie and Gunnarsson come to mind

 

[egd27]

This is what I don't understand. Shouldn't the focus be acquiring another suitable defenseman to pair with him? Is my logic that flawed.

No. The problem is you continue to try and apply logic.

 

[Mess]

This thread has reached its max limit

/closed