Pettersson vs Eichel

[Aqualung]

It’s all good dude, You’re now telling me to read closer then go on to re-arrange my words...I didn’t say Petterson was invisible, you’re taking that out of context. I said when comparing right now Eichel is ahead because in the games he didn’t score he didn’t look invisible like EP did. (This is the third time in the thread I’m about to say this) that in the games Eichel didn’t get points this year he was a strong presence, every game with him since he’s been captain he’s given it his all and again some of his best games this season were games he didn’t score. While Petterson looked rather pedestrian in the games he didn’t produce. (Which I’ve repeated 3x is OKAY because he’s a rookie and I think he will have a far better rookie year then Eichel, that’s not even close really)



However since you didn’t respond to my question about how many games you’ve seen Eichel play this year I’ll assume that’s because you haven’t wAtched him, which again is why you were probably quick to jump to point totals as a way of comparison. That’s fine, I don’t expect everyone to watch every player to have an opinion but don’t call me biased from my username when I’ve actually watched both players. You say you don’t get 32 pts in 27 gmes being invisible, yeah, it’s a good thing I wasn’t calling him invisible then isn’t it? He got ten pts in a two game stretch which is incredible and doesent make his point totals look worse, but that shows you IT IS possible to look invisible AT TIMES because that’s 22 pts in 25 of the other games. Which is incredible but that’s not what I’m referring to here, that’s just pointing out in some games when the Nucks lost 12 of 13 he was rather pedestrian. (The nicer “non invisible” way of saying it) And he looked this way even in some games before that streak I saw .....but it wAs only only a couple times. Not enough to really get worked up on about, but if you’re comparing this to a guy who’s been good every game, then yeah.....it stands out.

Furthermore, I have many friends who are Canuck fans who even came to work saying “yeah EP didn’t have a great game, didn’t notice him tonight” more then a couple times. Eichel leads the league in shots, is fourth in offensive zone possession, third in assists, 7th in points, the guy dominates almost every night since being captain, like I said it’s made him more accountable.

All you’ve brought to this discussion is the great things EP has done and have said nothing about eichels play, other then his pts total which again indicates to me you haven’t seen it. And again, this makes Me biased? Okay, Im biased then. But at least I’m not ignoring one of the two parties involved in this little discussion.

Dude I feel like I’m repeating myself.

I didn’t use your words out of context, you clearly said there were times Pettersson was invisible and I disagreed. Those were your words.

You said that I thought Eichel wasn’t offfensicely talented which is not true and to the contrary he is talented but I think Pettersson has more to show in terms of offense. That’s called putting words in my mouth.

Also I have watched Eichel multiple times but not every game and could not tell you how many I’ve watched, but enough to form my opinion. But it is just that, an opinion.

I didn’t say it’s clearly EP or Eichel one way or another, you did. I said that I disagreed and think that it is debateable. That has always been my position and you’ve clearly misinterpreted what I’ve said.

I never once called you biased because of your username and yet you accuse me of that.

Not sure I care for your anecdotal evidence of your Canuck friends. It had little credibility or relevance when no one can actually examine your friends.

I brought great things EP has done? Where? I only compared both Eichels and EPS scoring totals.

Biased? Where did I say you are biased? I just said that I disagreed it wasn’t remotely close.

Just reading above, can you blame me for thinking you didn’t read closely enough?

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Dude I feel like I’m repeating myself.

I didn’t use your words out of context, you clearly said there were times Pettersson was invisible and I disagreed. Those were your words.

You said that I thought Eichel wasn’t offfensicely talented which is not true and to the contrary he is talented but I think Pettersson has more to show in terms of offense. That’s called putting words in my mouth.

Also I have watched Eichel multiple times but not every game and could not tell you how many I’ve watched, but enough to form my opinion. But it is just that, an opinion.

I didn’t say it’s clearly EP or Eichel one way or another, you did. I said that I disagreed and think that it is debateable. That has always been my position and you’ve clearly misinterpreted what I’ve said.

I never once called you biased because of your username and yet you accuse me of that.

Not sure I care for your anecdotal evidence of your Canuck friends. It had little credibility or relevance when no one can actually examine your friends.

I brought great things EP has done? Where? I only compared both Eichels and EPS scoring totals.

Biased? Where did I say you are biased? I just said that I disagreed it wasn’t remotely close.

Just reading above, can you blame me for thinking you didn’t read closely enough?

My fault for confusing you with the OP who quoted me. That’s on me there, sorry man was doing a few things quickly at the time ...

I agree that EP is intimidating.....I think in a couple years, both guys could be top ten players in the league. Maybe even if things go really well both could push for top 5 one day...it sounds like such a stretch because there’s so many great players but the thing I like about this poll (or both guys rather) is I don’t think there’s a ceiling on either guy.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Sample size?

It’s possible but we’ll see how that holds up after a season or two ....and love the bold on the much worse team then Eichel, buffalo only gets goals from Eichels line.....and he only had the lowest scoring team in the league last year but still managed to go basically point per game (64 in 67) so he’s not immune to the suckage around him.

Well that sample size is Pettersson’s entire career so it’s all we can go on.

Of course Eichel is more proven because he’s played well for longer, but that’s not the question of the poll.

And yes Eichel played well on a bad team, but I am comparing the players right now. If we compare Pettersson to Eichel last year I place Pettersson slightly above him, which is why I compared them this season, where I believe they are performing equally, but with a stark difference in terms of the quality of their teammates.

The only thing to be seen is how things will play out over the course of the entire season, but again Pettersson is two years younger so he doesn’t even need to continue to match Eichel this season to be a valid choice as long as he continues his amazing play.

 

[Panthaz89]

Not remotely true? I think that’s debatable. One has 16 goals and 32 points in 27 games, the other has 9 goals 36 points in 30 games..

Pettersson is a rookie. He’s been better than Eichel as a rookie and Eichel in his draft+1 season, and just as good this season. Even more I think the reverse ie Pettersson will probably outscore Eichel in their careers because from what I’ve seen of both, Pettersson is more offensively gifted.

You realize Eichel is literally an offensive machine by comparison right? The Sabres top line absolutely dominates on a per shift basis and Eichel leads the league in shots while being an assist machine. Its literally not even close. You can compare him to Dahlin but Eichel right now is practically a joke he's absolutely dominating on a per game basis and certainly isn't a ghost show in any game...he doesn't just splurge points against bad teams and not show up for several others.

 

[CP4]

Gimme Petey here.

 

[Aqualung]

You realize Eichel is literally an offensive machine by comparison right? The Sabres top line absolutely dominates on a per shift basis and Eichel leads the league in shots while being an assist machine. Its literally not even close. You can compare him to Dahlin but Eichel right now is practically a joke he's absolutely dominating on a per game basis and certainly isn't a ghost show in any game...he doesn't just splurge points against bad teams and not show up for several others.

What does that have to do with what I said? Where did I say Eichel is not an offensive dynamo this season? Why would I compare a forward to a defensemen?

I’m glad you recognize Eichel’s dominance? Can you recognize EP’s? Need to know both before you can credibly evaluate.

It’s the part where you (and the person you quoted) say it’s not close and a joke. I disagreed and think it is close, or more specifically, same tier. Maybe Eichel is better right now, but I disagree that this isn’t a debate.

Not close or a joke... that’s just pure hyperbole. Splurge on bad teams? EP put up 5 on the Avalanche and has scored against good teams. Where’s your evidence EP just splurges in bad teams?

 

[CP4]

You realize Eichel is literally an offensive machine by comparison right? The Sabres top line absolutely dominates on a per shift basis and Eichel leads the league in shots while being an assist machine. Its literally not even close. You can compare him to Dahlin but Eichel right now is practically a joke he's absolutely dominating on a per game basis and certainly isn't a ghost show in any game...he doesn't just splurge points against bad teams and not show up for several others.

That must be why Eichel only has 6 more points in 4 more games. Not to mention the overall team quality each player has. Once you also factor in Petterssons goal count it becomes a lost closer than you think.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

The correct answer is....Pettersson

 

[Panthaz89]

That must be why Eichel only has 6 more points in 4 more games. Not to mention the overall team quality each player has. Once you also factor in Petterssons goal count it becomes a lost closer than you think.

no it isn't Eichel is 2 steps above offensively and doesn't ride a f***ing ridiculous shooting pct...

 

[SteelerNation]

no it isn't Eichel is 2 steps above offensively and doesn't ride a ****ing ridiculous shooting pct...

EP AINEC

 

[SillyRabbit]

no it isn't Eichel is 2 steps above offensively and doesn't ride a ****ing ridiculous shooting pct...

6 more points in 4 more games is 1.15 PPG.

Pettersson’s career PPG is 1.19.

Therefore if Pettersson played those four games instead of being out with a concussion he would likely have the same amount of points, but with much more goals.

All while being two years younger.

There’s zero argument for Eichel being two steps ahead of Pettersson offensively, they are quite clearly performing equally.

 

[Royal Thunder]

So many bad posts in this thread.

It's close as hell and both fan bases will pick their own guy. GTFO with the hyperbole, neither has any sort of convincing edge on the other at this point.

 

[Mathew Barzal]

Moving forward? Pettersson.

Right now? Eichel.

Pettersson is still pretty raw, but once he fills out a bit I'll have a hard time justify taking Eichel over him unless Eichel raises his game come playoff time.

 

[Aqualung]

no it isn't Eichel is 2 steps above offensively and doesn't ride a ****ing ridiculous shooting pct...

Your silence above speaks loudly. Can’t really respond with any substance? Just hyperbole through and through.

 

[Panthaz89]

Your silence above speaks loudly. Can’t really respond with any substance? Just hyperbole through and through.

Or maybe I'm playing a RDR2 round with my friends and decided Eichel was clearly better and decided it isn't worth discussing....i've seen both i've never seen Eichel as invisible as Pettersson is in a lot of games this season. We can talk about going forward but right now is a joke.

 

[PeterForsberg]

Eichel

 

[Aqualung]

Or maybe I'm playing a RDR2 round with my friends and decided Eichel was clearly better and decided it isn't worth discussing....i've seen both i've never seen Eichel as invisible as Pettersson is in a lot of games this season. We can talk about going forward but right now is a joke.

Isn’t that the point of this thread? Who do you take going forward?

what I requested was a) prove that’s EP just splurges on bad teams; and b) only Eichel is the offensive dominant player.

I disagree, I don’t think it’s a joke, their both scoring at similar rates except Pettersson has far less support, plays on a worse team and has scored more goals. He is much more raw compared to Eichel who is more polished who affects the game on a more consistent basis, yet this shows to me that going forward EP has much more room to be a more dominant forward given they are not that far apart now. Eichel better now? Yes. Close now? Yes. Who’s better in the future? My money is on EP who’s proving it as a rookie.

 

[WonderTwinsUnite]

Eichel was better at 20 then EP is now and will continue to be so.

I thought I'd do a little math to see how this bore out, because frankly the situations were pretty similar in terms of these two essentially being the only scoring options on otherwise awful teams.

Eichel played 61 games in his 20-year-old season (16-17). For a minute, pretend he was a rookie that season to keep him on a level playing field with Pettersson. Eichel had 57 points that year on 161 goals that the Sabres scored in those 61 games, meaning he contributed to approximately 35.4% of his team's goals. Offensively speaking, the team jumped from a meagre 1.81 goals-per-game (38 in 21) with Eichel out to 2.64 with him in the lineup.

So far, Pettersson has 32 points on 86 goals the Canucks have scored with him in the lineup, or 37.2%. Without Pettersson for six game in October, the Canucks only scored 11 goals in 6 games, or 1.83 goals-per-game. With him in the lineup, the team has averaged 3.19 goals per game.

As an aside, some of the underlying numbers (Corsi, Fenwick) bear out in favour of Pettersson, but there is also a stark difference in how Pettersson is being deployed versus Eichel in terms of zone starts, with the former seemingly more sheltered.

Now these numbers are so small in sample size that it's hard to really ascertain anything concrete, but I will say that anyone saying one is definitively better than the other is incorrect.

 

[Panthaz89]

Isn’t that the point of this thread? Who do you take going forward?

I disagree, I don’t think it’s a joke, their both scoring at similar rates except Pettersson has far less support, plays on a worse team and has scored more goals. He is much more raw compared to Eichel who is more polished who affects the game on a more consistent basis, yet this shows to me that going forward EP has much more room to be a more dominant forward given they are not that far apart now. Eichel better now? Yes. Close now? Yes. Who’s better in the future? My money is on EP who’s proving it as a rookie.

the response was to a post about him being better than Eichel who is consistently good and produces against all of his opponents...can't even remember the last game he went pointless.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Pettersson has been invisible? Wtf. I've watched every game he's played, hes's never been invisible.

Even in his least impressive games this season he's still made some great plays. Its a garbage narrative.

 

[Aqualung]

the response was to a post about him being better than Eichel who is consistently good and produces against all of his opponents...can't even remember the last game he went pointless.

That quote was about EP being as good, not better. I’ve never said he’s better, just that it’s debateable currently and the going forward my bet is on EP. I’ve even conceded that Eichel is better now, but not in the “it’s not remotely close” or “jokingly” tier but that it is close.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Elias Pettersson, 20 years old, his team is 22nd in the NHL, he is ranked 7th in P/60 with 3.77

Jack Eichel, 22 years old, his team is 6th in the NHL, he is ranked 17th in P/60 with 3.59

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Eichel has scored almost ppg or more over his career thus far IIRC, hes proven more with less ill go with him

 

[Panthaz89]

That quote was about EP being as good, not better. I’ve never said he’s better, just that it’s debateable currently and the going forward my bet is on EP. I’ve even conceded that Eichel is better now, but not in the “it’s not remotely close” or “jokingly” tier but that it is close.

i'm talking about the OG response which was a reply to someone who stated it.

 

[Aqualung]

i'm talking about the OG response which was a reply to someone who stated it.

A bit hard to tell since your response (and first response in this thread) was a response to my quote bolding “as good”.