Peter Bondra, hockey hall of fame?

[Michael Farkas]

Hall of trivia questions for Bondra as he relates to Richard. That's a nice booby prize...

 

[Big Phil]

Of the players you just mentioned; only Jagr, Selanne and Bondra led the league in goals multiple times and scored 500+ career goals. Nobody criticized Maurice Richard for a lack of assists in his career and he and Bondra are the only players in NHL history with over 500 goals and less than 500 assists.

To be fair, Richard still had 4 seasons in the top 10 for assists in his career. Not to mention, he finished 2nd in NHL scoring a whopping 5 times. Twice by a single point. I think it is pretty clear that Richard is one of the better scorers (not just goal scorers) in NHL history and was a bit more than just a one-trick pony when it came to goals.

 

[psycat]

That is a ridiculous comparison to Richard and Bondra!

I agree. That said comparing Richard to the usual suspects for 5th all time is also ridiculous.

OT: Don't think Bondra should be in the hall.

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

 

[The Roy Of Ottawa]

Peter Bondra scored 5 goals in one game against the Tampa Bay Lightning in 1994.

Peter Bondra faced his Washington Capitals predecessor Mike Gartner for fastest skater during the 1996 NHL All-Star Skills Competition. Gartner won.

 

[jcbio11]

Another year, another snub. Happy that my boy Hoss got in though. That's him in the Red Wings uniform in my avatar.

Well, I still maintain that as long as this thread on this board stays alive, Peter Bondra can still get some traction.

Peter Bondra 2021 HHOF. Let's get it trending everywhere.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I like Bondra, I don't get to watch him much but I used to think him and Bure aren't all that different, and wonder why one is so highly regarded, and the other seem to be an after-thought. Bure has more success in the playoff and in international tournament, but regular seasons both are similar. You can say Bondra doesn't get a lot of assists but for his career he has 0.75 assists to every goal, while Bure is 0.78. Both are fast guys that score lots of goals, very similar play style. Looking at the Capital's roster from 1995 to 2000, how is he supposed to rack up assists? Passing to playmakers like Pivonka/Juneau/Oates, young pre-established guys like Brunette/Zednik/Bulis, grinder like Konowalchuk/Nikolishin, or tough guys like Simon/Hunter? He had to be the one shooting to give the team the best chance to win, I don't think its fair to dump on him for a lack of assists.
His lack of top 10 finishes in points will hold him back, as well as a lack of trophies. But he is one of the best goal scorer of his generation, and won 2 goal scoring titles (that should count as "trophies" I guess), I'd like to see him in the HHOF.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

is bondra kind of like the goal scoring bobrovsky? in that his on paper resume grossly overstates how good he really was and he is the exception to the “anyone with two _____s must be a hall of famer” rule?

 

[begbeee]

I like Bondra,

All this arguments were already mentioned thousend times.

is bondra kind of like the goal scoring bobrovsky? in that his on paper resume grossly overstates how good he really was and he is the exception to the “anyone with two _____s must be a hall of famer” rule?

With current treshold I definitely can see that Bondra will get some hype as time will fly... In weak year in 30s someone will bring up his name and with snowball effect he may get in.

If someone is the best player in NHL twice in the major category, it´s always a good argument why he should be in.

 

[JianYang]

I'm not saying bondra would be a headliner in any class, but I think he should get in. 500 goals carries alot of weight to me, and it's almost like a magical barrier to me in order to get a player in. Winning the goal scoring title twice shows that he performed well relative to his peers as well.

 

[sr edler]

I like Bondra, I don't get to watch him much but I used to think him and Bure aren't all that different, and wonder why one is so highly regarded, and the other seem to be an after-thought. Bure has more success in the playoff and in international tournament, but regular seasons both are similar. You can say Bondra doesn't get a lot of assists but for his career he has 0.75 assists to every goal, while Bure is 0.78. Both are fast guys that score lots of goals, very similar play style. Looking at the Capital's roster from 1995 to 2000, how is he supposed to rack up assists? Passing to playmakers like Pivonka/Juneau/Oates, young pre-established guys like Brunette/Zednik/Bulis, grinder like Konowalchuk/Nikolishin, or tough guys like Simon/Hunter? He had to be the one shooting to give the team the best chance to win, I don't think its fair to dump on him for a lack of assists.
His lack of top 10 finishes in points will hold him back, as well as a lack of trophies. But he is one of the best goal scorer of his generation, and won 2 goal scoring titles (that should count as "trophies" I guess), I'd like to see him in the HHOF.

I don't even know where to begin (or to end) with all of this, but Bure isn't even that highly regarded by everyone who calls themselves a history buff. He's often called a cherry picker by people/posters here, even on the history board, and there was even an established (and apparently serious) poster on this history board 7-8 years ago who claimed Bure was an overall net minus for his teams, i.e. a negative presence ability/results wise. He also had to wait a bunch of years to get into the HHOF.

That said, Bure was top 5 in points thrice, and 7th once. Take into consideration that he only played 5 full NHL seasons and you have a player who when he was healthy and played a full season placed himself well inside the top 10 point producers 80% of the time. The 5th full and healthy season, when he didn't place himself top 10 in scoring, he scored 60 goals and 50 assists for 110 points.

You say Bure is beating out Bondra in international play and playoffs like international play and playoffs are minor things. International play and playoffs are absolute major things. That's when the chips are seriously down and scoring is more difficult. Regular seasons a lot of the time consists of shallow divisions and some fluff scoring. Fluff scoring can appear in international tourneys and playoffs too (especially in round robins or earlier rounds), but is then often a bit easier to point out because of its isolated nature.

It's also not like Bure was marginally better than Bondra in international scoring and in the playoffs, he was brutally better. Bondra when Washington went to the finals in 1998 had 12 points in 17 games. That's one more point than Bure had in the 1st round of the 1995 playoffs against the St. Louis Blues, a tight fought series against some good players. Bure had a 16 game point streak in the 1994 playoffs, the second longest ever in a single playoffs behind dynasty Islander Bryan Trottier. Bondra didn't even have 16 points in 1998. Bure also kills Bondra in regular season scoring, obviously.

As for assists, Bure in the playoffs had a balanced 35-35-70 stat line. He led the 1994 SCFs Canucks in playoff assists (15). He led the Canucks in assists twice in the regular season (1994, 1998) and was a relatively close 2nd once (1993). He led the 00–01 Panthers in assists. Again, not a lot of full or complete seasons.

And that's just (briefly) about the results. But Bure and Bondra varied substantially from each other also style wise. It's true both were speedy wingers regularly used on the penalty kill, with good shooting ability. That's it basically. Those are very basic things though and doesn't touch on the details.

I've compared Bondra to Bugs Bunny before, the way he was flying effortlessly up and down the wing in a relatively straight perimeter line. If Bondra is Bugs Bunny, then Bure is Daffy Duck, ready to move in on the goalie recklessly and drool him straight in his face.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Bondra was a highly talented player, but the problem I have with his case is the same criticism that I make of Ovechkin over the last ten years - you can't just look at a player's goal-scoring isolation.

In 1995, Bondra led the league in goals. He gets a trophy for that (or would have, if the Richard was around then). But he also finished tied for 258th in assists, and only finished tied for 27th in scoring overall. Theo Fleury (to name another borderline HOFer) scored 5 fewer goals, had 20 more assists, and finished 6th in scoring - and he gets nothing. But Bondra "has a trophy" because there's a trophy to recognize the thing he specializes in.

The same is true in 1998. Bondra tied for the most goals, but finished tied for 108th in assists (and 11th overall - so this one isn't quite as egregious). Ziggy Palffy (who was probably the better player) scored 7 fewer goals, had 16 more assists, and finished tied for 5th in scoring. Bondra gets a trophy, and Palffy gets nothing.

If I cherry-pick Bondra's best years relative to the league (1995 to 2002), he has two goal-scoring crowns (and is 2nd in goals overall, to Jagr). But he's only 22nd in overall scoring, and was outscored by a bunch of non-HOF players including Fleury, Tkachuk, LeClair, Turgeon, Palffy, Weight, Amonte. If you weigh goals more than assists, Bondra does pass several of them, but I think Bondra's case rests so heavily on the fact that he's a highly specialized player, and there's a trophy that recognizes the thing that he specializes in. (Of course, what he specializes in is really important, but I don't think it's enough).

The other issue I have with Bondra is his playoff resume is pretty thin, and he was largely a non-factor the one time the Capitals had a deep playoff run during his prime.

 

[nabby12]

"You don't get your name in the paper for assists."

I think you guys are undervaluing how important pure goal scorers are. Bondra scored goals and did so at a prolific rate throughout his career.

He'll get in the Hall of Fame one day.

 

[Hobnobs]

I think part of the problem is that many of the elite scorers of the dead puck era all got injured. Bure, Lindros, and Kariya would have all likely been 1st ballot guys if it weren't for the injuries. As it is now, I think Lindros and Bure should be no-brainers to be inducted as is, especially since we overlooked Neely's injuries.

Oh and I have Bondra as the worst of the guys you listed. It wasn't just the lack of assists; Bondra was quite the poor playoff performer himself.

I'd rank them:

Should be inducted:
1. Lindros
2. Bure

Could go either way:
3. Kariya
4. Sundin (he'll probably get in, but I'd personally rank him below Kariya)

Doubtful:
5. Leclair (realistically, he has no shot, but he'd be a likely choice if the Flyers had one the Cup even once. Definitely a better player on his own than Clark Gillies, for instance).
6. Tkachuk

No way:
7. Bondra

Tkachuk is below Bondra or in the same tier. While both are mediocre Bondra atleast wouldnt take the most stupid penalties that cost his team victories in the playoffs.

EDIT: Also I didnt realize how old this thread were.

 

[bobbyking]

his goal to assists ratio is not bad at all

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

is bondra kind of like the goal scoring bobrovsky? in that his on paper resume grossly overstates how good he really was and he is the exception to the “anyone with two _____s must be a hall of famer” rule?

Not sure I see it.

Bobrovsky was voted best at his position twice (and never came close again).

Bondra's highest finish in RW All-Star voting was 4th, which he did twice. He was also 5th twice and 6th once.

So Bondra was fairly consistent compared to Bobrovsky, but was never even considered a top 3 RW in any given year.

 

[Hatfield]

If Peter Bondra played for any Canadian team, any O6 team, or maybe Philly, he’d already be in. He scored 500 goals and was really exciting to watch, especially in the DPE.

Pre-Ovi Caps were the red headed stepchild of the NHL That’s the only reason why he’s not at least in the conversation with Fleury, Roenick, etc.

 

[wetcoast]

If Peter Bondra played for any Canadian team, any O6 team, or maybe Philly, he’d already be in. He scored 500 goals and was really exciting to watch, especially in the DPE.

Pre-Ovi Caps were the red headed stepchild of the NHL That’s the only reason why he’s not at least in the conversation with Fleury, Roenick, etc.

The sad thing is that this is probably true at least for most Canadian teams.

The thing is that he wouldn't be the worst winger in the HHOF or even second or third worse but Rick Middleton was better and he isn't in either.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

If Peter Bondra played for any Canadian team, any O6 team, or maybe Philly, he’d already be in. He scored 500 goals and was really exciting to watch, especially in the DPE.

neither alfredsson nor roenick are in, soni don’t think the canadian/prestige team bump helps as much as you think

if he’d played for the leafs, maybe

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Not sure I see it.

Bobrovsky was voted best at his position twice (and never came close again).

Bondra's highest finish in RW All-Star voting was 4th, which he did twice. He was also 5th twice and 6th once.

So Bondra was fairly consistent compared to Bobrovsky, but was never even considered a top 3 RW in any given year.

i just meant in terms of having the “well he’s got two ____s he’s gotta be in” argument going for him but the full range of his work being so far below the HHOF threshold that his candidacy is an extreme minority position.

i think it’s like if they gave the 07 smythe to giguere, which wouldn’t have been a crime. still hard to make that case.

 

[JianYang]

The sad thing is that this is probably true at least for most Canadian teams.

The thing is that he wouldn't be the worst winger in the HHOF or even second or third worse but Rick Middleton was better and he isn't in either.

Hockey hall of fame seems to have big bias towards players who won a few cups.

Kevin Lowe, and guy carbonneau are examples of good players who just happened to play on alot of cup winners, and it got them in.

If carbonneau or Lowe carved their careers on lesser teams at the time, I highly doubt they get a sniff. Ditto for Clark Gillies.

Good players on dynasties seem at least as likely to get in compared to great players with limited team success. It's kind of a twisted philosophy in my view.

 

[Hatfield]

neither alfredsson nor roenick are in, soni don’t think the canadian/prestige team bump helps as much as you think

if he’d played for the leafs, maybe

Well, Alfredsson will get in one of these years. I remember talk of him even being a 1st ballot guy, though that obviously didn’t happen.

I think there are other things keeping Roenick out. I get the sense that he’s not well liked. I also don’t think he helped his case with the Kathryn Tappen incident this season. Shouldn’t matter but it does.

 

[Jacob]

My recollection of Bondra (which could be wrong) was that he was pretty underrated because he played in a market that didn't get a lot of outside attention and because on paper he looked really one-dimensional, but he was actually an excellent two-way player and didn't take any short-cuts on the ice, and didn't always have a great supporting cast either. Not sure he's HOF-worthy though.

 

[begbeee]

My recollection of Bondra (which could be wrong) was that he was pretty underrated because he played in a market that didn't get a lot of outside attention and because on paper he looked really one-dimensional, but he was actually an excellent two-way player and didn't take any short-cuts on the ice, and didn't always have a great supporting cast either. Not sure he's HOF-worthy though.

The former is very much true, it was kinda common knowledge at the time. The latter I doubt. He deinitely was not a liability on the ice, played all hot minutes including penalty kill. But calling him excellent two-way player is really overstretched.