Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Wings | loss | garbage effort

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AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,258
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Vancouver, British Columbia
It didn’t mean anything before, why should it mean anything now?
True, but I think this is as extreme as it's ever been under Sullivan.
I'm not sure you'll find another coach in the league who would have played Kap 7 mins after that 1st period. It's especially surprising considering how flat we were the night before. The normal reaction is to be encouraging to guys who are breaking through finally.
7 mins is what he used to give to guys as punishment for shit play on a particular night. Like Sprong for example.

Kap's not even that poor of a defensive player. If you're defending a lead he can give you serviceable minutes. Or if the line is going then maybe they'll just get good O-zone time and keep the puck 200 feet away from your net?

I think Sullivan does a lot of things well as a coach, but his flaws are getting more pronounced every year. It's just confounding decision making at this point.
How POJ + Rutta hasn't been reunited as the 2nd pairing is beyond my understanding.
In what world is Dumo outplaying POJ right now, to the point where he should be trusted against stronger opposition?
Why on Earth would you NOT try to snap Rutta out of this funk by separating him from Dumo, and giving him someone that worked brilliantly with him before?

What is this man thinking? Joseph was +3 in this game and the best Penguin the game before.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
48,175
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Praha, CZ
Couldn't have said it better myself. Oh and my ideal wife would be Emily Ratajkowski.
Yeah I think we have to realize that the only plausible trades that have a shot of making a difference here are going to be hockey trades, because we’ve got nothing of value anymore in the prospect pool and nobody wants our trash. :laugh:
 

Icarium

Registered User
Feb 16, 2010
3,987
5,673
AHAHAHAHAHA!

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, Sullisma special. Kapanen with two nice assists early on, proceeds to play for all of 7 minutes. DOC scores a beautiful goal, looks good, proceeds to play for all of 5 minutes. This on a b2b with travel against a rested, younger team. Dumo gets 20 minutes. Then the icing on the cake - Carter in OT. Yeah, he changed before the goal but the goal didn't happen earlier only due to dumb luck.

Sure, L1 having an absolute nightmare of a game was a bigger factor for the loss but if you play with fire, you are going to get burned. I feel bad for Zucker who had his best game in ages.

Too bad no lessons will be learned from this debacle because Sullisma hasn't learned anything since 2017. Amazing special teams and goaltending were hiding the problem for a while but not any more.

Well, either that or Jeff Petry is a dark horse Norris candidate and we will be back to beating everyone when he returns, lol.

Carter's swing and miss on a tap-in, then a blatant cross-check which allowed Zucker to score his second goal was pretty funny, though.
 

Pens x

Registered User
Oct 8, 2016
16,254
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I mean, Boston's trucking along with Bergeron and Krecji as their top 2 centers, and Marchand and Hall key guys on the wing. They're older than our core guys. The difference is the coaching staff has all 12 forwards and all 6 defensemen playing to their strengths. Sullivan still insists on using his "system" whether we have the roster or players to play it or not (hint: we don't).

For me, the big issue is just how shitty all our players look. It's one thing when Sid/Geno decide to mail it in; not necessarily acceptable, but at least "understandable" given who they are and what they've accomplished. But why the f*** are the other 10 forwards (minus one or two guys who show up) looking like they're entitled to only show up for 10 minutes per game?

I think the problem is two-fold. One part is on Hextall for assembling too many vanilla forwards who are just kind of *there* but don't really add a thing when they're not producing, and the other part is Sullivan being incapable of getting the most out of this team on anywhere near a consistent basis in terms of effort. The last part is all on him because it's even guys who should be "hard working grinders" that also look like they took a page out of Phil Kessel's autobiography.
I think Sully has far too much influence over roster decisions. The problems with the team all stem back to Sully and to a lesser degree, sleepy. Sully loves his crappy vanilla midget forwards.
 

Zbynek

Jarry friggin sucks dude
Jun 6, 2011
3,739
3,483
Madrid, Spain
I didn’t really watch this game but it sounds like the kind of game a coach loses their job over.

But you know.
Why on earth would we fire Sullivan? I mean we extended him 3 years when he still had 2 years left on his contract, just to be safe. And now that we've got him locked up for 5 years, we better get our money's worth (and mustaches worth too).
 
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Victor Z

Trade me right f**king now!
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Apr 10, 2018
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The Burgh
Didn't watch the game (or read through all the postings here yet), but let's see:

O'Connor scores a quick goal.... and is benched for the rest of the night.

Kappy records 2 assists in the first 10 minutes.... and is benched for the rest of the night.

Friedman (+2, 5 hits -- both led the team) plays the least of any defenseman. I suppose that one was to be expected since he is the #6 D.

Maybe all 3 got injured, and that's what limited their time?

If not, this was a perfect illustration of how Sully's whipping boys actually helped the team during their brief appearances, while Sully's pets shit all over the bed and got all of the ice time necessary to accomplish it.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
48,175
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Praha, CZ
Wasn't it a few years back when Kapanen scored a short-handed goal in the 2nd and then was benched the entire rest of the game? :laugh:

Why on earth would we fire Sullivan? I mean we extended him 3 years when he still had 2 years left on his contract, just to be safe. And now that we've got him locked up for 5 years, we better get our money's worth (and mustaches worth too).
Same time we were busy signing Jeff Carter. Man, those extensions sure worked out great. I'm sure glad we didn't wait a few months and see how the rest of last season turned out.

Also absolute lol on how this team tripped over its own dick to sign Carter as fast as possible while f***ing Malkin around and people defended it. :laugh:
 
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badi

Registered User
Jan 21, 2008
867
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PO Needs to play more simple as that
Kapanen created and got 2 assists but played 7 minutes ??
As you guys said, way too many times , Sully won t change ....
 
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Flying Dego

Registered User
Apr 30, 2013
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True, but I think this is as extreme as it's ever been under Sullivan.
I'm not sure you'll find another coach in the league who would have played Kap 7 mins after that 1st period. It's especially surprising considering how flat we were the night before. The normal reaction is to be encouraging to guys who are breaking through finally.
7 mins is what he used to give to guys as punishment for shit play on a particular night. Like Sprong for example.

Kap's not even that poor of a defensive player. If you're defending a lead he can give you serviceable minutes. Or if the line is going then maybe they'll just get good O-zone time and keep the puck 200 feet away from your net?

I think Sullivan does a lot of things well as a coach, but his flaws are getting more pronounced every year. It's just confounding decision making at this point.
How POJ + Rutta hasn't been reunited as the 2nd pairing is beyond my understanding.
In what world is Dumo outplaying POJ right now, to the point where he should be trusted against stronger opposition?
Why on Earth would you NOT try to snap Rutta out of this funk by separating him from Dumo, and giving him someone that worked brilliantly with him before?

What is this man thinking? Joseph was +3 in this game and the best Penguin the game before.
His lack of in game management has always been stubborn.

DOC and especially Kap had good 1sts, why not play the younger guys with fast legs more? Build confidence, per chance?

Friedman and POJ, playing much better than Dumo yet they get 13-14 while he gets 20min?

Normally a coach reads the game and adjusts...like you said Rutta needs away from Dumo. POJ/Rutta should get a crack at 2nd pair min with Petry out.

I've just grown tired of his flaws. He's a good coach overall but one that's worn out his welcome here. Life of a hockey coach.
 

TooManyHumans

Registered User
May 4, 2018
2,417
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Just pathetic and embarrassing. Sullivan and the players (the ones who actually got to see the ice after the first) should be ashamed. It could not have been more clearly a lack of giving a shit after they got the lead. Shameful from a bunch of professionals.
 

SomeDude

Registered User
Mar 6, 2006
17,307
28,451
Pittsburghish
His lack of in game management has always been stubborn.

DOC and especially Kap had good 1sts, why not play the younger guys with fast legs more? Build confidence, per chance?

Friedman and POJ, playing much better than Dumo yet they get 13-14 while he gets 20min?

Normally a coach reads the game and adjusts...like you said Rutta needs away from Dumo. POJ/Rutta should get a crack at 2nd pair min with Petry out.

I've just grown tired of his flaws. He's a good coach overall but one that's worn out his welcome here. Life of a hockey coach.
To add to all that, they just played the night before. Any coach with common sense will spread the ice time out in that situation.
 
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LOGiK

Registered User
Nov 14, 2007
18,322
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Penguins up 4-0


LOSE... 5-4!!!
Ohhhh hahahaha....
HAAAAAAAhahahaha!!!
Can't wait to read the posts this kind of loss will bring out!
 
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Fatty McLardy

Registered User
Oct 6, 2017
4,251
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LOL what a dogshit of a team. Even the games they've been winning lately - most of them they've been outplayed.

Seeing yet another embarrassing 1st round loss in our future (if they make the playoffs). What will that make, 6 in a row?

Sullivan's system blows - Terrible Defensive zone play, no sustained pressure in the O-zone, players stay to the outside, most of our goals only come off the rush.
 
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LOGiK

Registered User
Nov 14, 2007
18,322
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I knew giving up on this team a few years ago was the correct move.

Will not find me caring much about this team until Sullivan is gone and they are exciting to watch again.
 

vodeni

Registered User
Oct 27, 2010
30,338
15,236
Pittsburgh
LOL what a dogshit of a team. Even the games they've been winning lately - most of them they've been outplayed.

Seeing yet another embarrassing 1st round loss in our future (if they make the playoffs). What will that make, 6 in a row?

Sullivan's system blows - Terrible Defensive zone play, no sustained pressure in the O-zone, players stay to the outside, most of our goals only come off the rush.
so lets take your last take and try to figure out whteher that is Sully's system or our players just suck or is it both:
Defensive Zone Play: We are bad in all apects of defensive play: If they dump behind our dman our only play is with your back to the ice sending the puck around the wall, that if we are lucky that their forwards are not faster to the puck and blow our weak dman off the puck, the next thing happens every team watches tapes and has double coverage on the weak side, a forward F2 and a dman to intercept the puck and create a new opportunity. Our forwards best they can do to tip the puck into the offensive zone where there is no one and wash rinse repeat. Other than POJ we don't have anyone right now that can actually take a puck and try to skate out of zone. letang used to do this but he has drilled in his head some bulshit about simplifying his game, whcih made him just a mediocre defensman who on occasion ctaches a wind of his former "complicated" game and actually create something. So thats it. Once they are pinned down they are also awful and somehow alaways on a losing end of one on one battles. A lot of this is confidence and some weird north south shit that they have been asked to do. Also is there a defensive core that does more of those stupid Murfy dumps to no one, only to get the puck back immediately.
O Zone sustained pressure:

Its hard to sustain any pressure when you completely rely on dumping the puck behind the defense, with one of the slowest offensive cores. they are slow but they are also weak. I think in last dozen games I have seen only once attacking through the NZ with 3 guys supporting each other with crisp passes. L1 used to do that but this whole Sid is the best grinder in the world thing changed the dynamics of L1, they dump and rely on really good work by Sid and Rakell to keep the pressure. Jake has been awful, not mediocre, plain awful. L2 is stronger but they are too far appart and move puck around perimeter and hope for a rebound. It does not help that our dmans are either scared to death of pinching and holding the blue line or they are just not good at it.
We still manage to score a lot due to some of the revigorated PP and Sid's and Geno's magic but even during the winning streak goals were not coming from a smopth, sustained development. Sully has only one way of playing and he said so many ways, dump teh puck, grind, play high to low, shoot the puck and go for rebounds. He does not have a plan B, and thats the issue that is showing now when there is zero confidence and being outhustled by just about every other opponent.

Most of our wins, Jarry was the best player on the ice, and he appeared not to acknowledge that rolling the same system, relying on Sid's 25% shooting, etc...Good coach sees this, adjust. Bad coach puts Rutta, and Dumolin in offensive zone face off that we know Geno will win at 4:4 game against f***ing Red Wings less than 2 minutes to go. That is mind boggling.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,869
47,101
Riffing off of what @vodeni mentioned, nothing looks worse than trying to play north-south, chip-it-in-grind-it-out hockey without the team that can pull it off. We don't really have that team anymore, and in fact, we haven't for a while.
This is why I keep harping on him insisting on playing a style he wants to play, regardless of whether he actually has a roster to play that way or not.

You don't take a team full of Johnny Gaudreaus and Patrick Kanes and expect them to play 90's New Jersey Devils trap hockey. You don't take a team full of Corey Perrys and Mark Stones and expect them to play like Carl Hagelin. You don't take a team full of Milan Lucics and Tom Wilsons and expect them to play East/West finesse hockey with no aggression or physicality. You adjust your system or style to the roster you have. Sullivan doesn't do that.
 
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