Pens vs Wings last 40 years rosters who you got

[centipede2233]

I did an oilers vs Avs one and the oilers won convincingly and likely not my best poll. So I decided to do one that should garner votes for both teams. I used the last 40 years as I’m in my late 40’s and I can’t accurately judge talent before my time other than doing some internet sleuthing.

disclaimer; I fully realize when I’m doing a best of team vs team people will have various opinions on who should be on it and who shouldn’t be. I did my best. So with that said, who wins a best of 7 1983-2023 pens or the 1983-2023 pens? Make your choice!

1983-2023 Pittsburgh Penguins

S.Crosby M.Lemieux. J.Jagr
K.Stevens. E.Malkin. M.Recchi
J.Guentzel. R.Francis. P.Kessel
J.Cullen. J.Staal. R.Tocchet


P.Coffey. L.Murphy
K.Letang. S.Gonchar
U.Samuelson. B.Orpik

Fleury
Barrasso


1983-2023 Detroit Redwings

H.Zetterberg. S.Yzerman. B.Hull
B.Shanahan. P.Datsyuk. S.Federov
D.Larkin. I.Larionov. D.Cicerelli
G.Gallant. K.Primeau. J.Franzen

C.Chelios. N.Lidstrom
P.Coffey. B.Rafalski
Konstantinov. Fetisov

D.Hasek
M.Vernon

Factor in where Players ere in their careers when they played on these teams.
-also note, I realize I could have had L.Murphy on Detroit but it was near the end of his career and imo doesn’t make the cut. I would have liked to include kronwall, but too many legends…

I know everyone isn’t going to be thrilled with my lines but I did the best I could

Click to read more...

 

[norrisnick]

I'm going to do you a solid and fix the Wings' roster... gimme a minute

 

[hamzarocks]

Ill go with Pens

A top 4 player and top 10 player all time along with another top 40 in Malkin and Francis a top 70 player

Wings have Lidstrom whose top 20 but Yzerman whose top 30 then maybe federov as top 50 (had a short prime)

Edit: Wings have Hasek whose top 10 all time for me top but he wasnt a top 10 player all time level on the wings which makes it tougher

This is closer than I thought originally haha, not sure who id pick as the Wings also have Chelios

 

[norrisnick]

Sheppard '94 - Fedorov '94 - Kozlov '96
Shanahan '97 - Yzerman '89 - Gallant '89
Larkin '23 - Zetterberg '08 - Franzen '09
Holmstrom '06 - Datsyuk '09 - Hossa '09

Lidstrom '08 - Rafalski '08
Kronwall '09 - Konstantinov '96
Coffey '95 - Chelios '02

Hasek '02'
Osgood '08

These aren't ranked necessarily 1-2-3-etc... top to bottom just how I'd put them together for the most cohesive lines and/or who they primarily played with (if the played at the same time).

 

[Three On Zero]

Hard not to take 2 likely top 5 players in Lemieux and Crosby

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Hard not to take 2 likely top 5 players in Lemieux and Crosby

Just put Zetterberg out every time Crosby is on the ice and that makes one of the top 5 players a non factor.

 

[Primary Assist]

Le Magnifique tilts the ice too much, plus you add Sid, Jagr, and Malkin - even the Dominator himself is in way above his head

 

[norrisnick]

Ill go with Pens

A top 4 player and top 10 player all time along with another top 40 in Malkin and Francis a top 70 player

Wings have Lidstrom whose top 20 but Yzerman whose top 30 then maybe federov as top 50 (had a short prime)

Edit: Wings have Hasek whose top 10 all time for me top but he wasnt a top 10 player all time level on the wings which makes it tougher

This is closer than I thought originally haha, not sure who id pick as the Wings also have Chelios

Lidstrom should be ahead of Crosby in all-time rankings.

Offensively the Pens have an edge. The gap in defense between the two teams is ridiculous.

 

[wetcoast]

Hard not to take 2 likely top 5 players in Lemieux and Crosby

True but my first thought was how elite Detroit would be with 2 way forwards and they have a better group of Dmen too.

Lidstrom should be ahead of Crosby in all-time rankings.

Offensively the Pens have an edge. The gap in defense between the two teams is ridiculous.

Exactly to the part in bold.


It's hard to compare Dmen to forwards but Crosby has 18 straight years of an elite level of play even if Lidstrom has 374 more games played I still think that Crosby is already the better all time guy already and probably has been for a while now.

 

[TheStatican]

Ill go with Pens

A top 4 player and top 10 player all time along with another top 40 in Malkin and Francis a top 70 player

Don't forget Jagr, a top 20 player all time AND Coffey another top 50 player.

Just put Zetterberg out every time Crosby is on the ice and that makes one of the top 5 players a non factor.

That's nice. Zetterberg played against a Crosby that was paired up with Kunitz and old man Guerin. He anit stopping **** against a Crosby paired up with the players the likes of Prime Jagr, Stevens or Recchi, nevermind Lemieux.

 

[Bileur]

I definitely prefer Detroit’s defense but man I can barely wrap my mind around how awesome Crosby-Lemieux-Jagr would be. I can’t vote against that line.

Sheppard '94 - Fedorov '94 - Kozlov '96
Shanahan '97 - Yzerman '89 - Gallant '89
Larkin '23 - Zetterberg '08 - Franzen '09
Holmstrom '06 - Datsyuk '09 - Hossa '09

Lidstrom '08 - Rafalski '08
Kronwall '09 - Konstantinov '96
Coffey '95 - Chelios '02

Hasek '02'
Osgood '08

These aren't ranked necessarily 1-2-3-etc... top to bottom just how I'd put them together for the most cohesive lines and/or who they primarily played with (if the played at the same time).

Personally I’d have gone with 6 Lidstroms

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Pens have too much firepower. If Detroit had peak Hasek it would be closer.

 

[norrisnick]

I definitely prefer Detroit’s defense but man I can barely wrap my mind around how awesome Crosby-Lemieux-Jagr would be. I can’t vote against that line.



Personally I’d have gone with 6 Lidstroms

6 Lidstroms with 12 Fedorovs up front, I don't care who or what is on the other side.

 

[Bileur]

6 Lidstroms with 12 Fedorovs up front, I don't care who or what is on the other side.

Or just 18 Federovs

 

[centipede2233]

Sheppard '94 - Fedorov '94 - Kozlov '96
Shanahan '97 - Yzerman '89 - Gallant '89
Larkin '23 - Zetterberg '08 - Franzen '09
Holmstrom '06 - Datsyuk '09 - Hossa '09

Lidstrom '08 - Rafalski '08
Kronwall '09 - Konstantinov '96
Coffey '95 - Chelios '02

Hasek '02'
Osgood '08

These aren't ranked necessarily 1-2-3-etc... top to bottom just how I'd put them together for the most cohesive lines and/or who they primarily played with (if the played at the same time).

No hull?

 

[norrisnick]

It's hard to compare Dmen to forwards but Crosby has 18 straight years of an elite level of play even if Lidstrom has 374 more games played I still think that Crosby is already the better all time guy already and probably has been for a while now.

Crosby has 15 seasons in the top 10 for year-end All Star honors.
Lidstrom has 17 seasons in the top 10 for year-end All Star honors with more First Teams even if you factor in that for forwards First and Second equate to a defenseman First team.

Half seasons don't do anything for me.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Missing Rob Brown

 

[wetcoast]

Le Magnifique tilts the ice too much, plus you add Sid, Jagr, and Malkin - even the Dominator himself is in way above his head

On paper this sounds easy but it's hard to equate as a 95-96 Mario was still good but not mind-blowing against the Red wings.

Mario has a great record all time against Detroit but most of these games are before most the wings players listed here.

I assume that many of Jagr record against the Wings is earlier in his career and his line against them is 46-13-27-40 plus 3 all time.

Just put Zetterberg out every time Crosby is on the ice and that makes one of the top 5 players a non factor.

Mind you that's a young Crosby both at their peak would be something to see.

 

[norrisnick]

No hull?

I find the other wingers provide a bit more utility than just a shot. He was too far out of his prime for my tastes. He's probably the first in line after though.

 

[wetcoast]

Crosby has 15 seasons in the top 10 for year-end All Star honors.
Lidstrom has 17 seasons in the top 10 for year-end All Star honors with more First Teams even if you factor in that for forwards First and Second equate to a defenseman First team.

Half seasons don't do anything for me.

Half seasons at an elite level do more than fuller seasons at a lower level.

Let's look at this is a different way and then compare , Crosby has 1190 GP and Lidstrom has 1564.

But that's just games played the important question is how many of those game were they difference makers and for Crosby he has a much higher ratio IMO.

The classic example of this is comparing Ovi/Crosby strictly on points.

Crosby has 17 more points in 157 less games and it's over enough of a total number of games 1190 to matter.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Just put Zetterberg out every time Crosby is on the ice and that makes one of the top 5 players a non factor.

Crosby has 38 points in 32 career games against Detroit.

Looking at his game splits, it's actually fascinating how few regular season games Zetterberg and Crosby played against each other. The Wings didn't move to the East until 2014-2015 and that was after both Crosby and Zetterberg were past their peaks.

 

[PensPlz]

Pens have 2 of the top 5 players of all time on that roster...

 

[Connor McConnor]

Detroits d and goalies are way too good to ignore.. they also have a lot more two way players in their forward core. Pens have 3 top 10-15 all time forwards plus another top 50.

Very tough. Depends on how you’d prefer your team to be constructed.

Voted Wings.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Interesting poll

Are we voting based on each individuals best season with the Wings/Pens, or using their career year regardless of what team they played for?

In other words, am I voting for a prime Hasek or a 38 year old Hasek?

 

[norrisnick]

Half seasons at an elite level do more than fuller seasons at a lower level.

Let's look at this is a different way and then compare , Crosby has 1190 GP and Lidstrom has 1564.

But that's just games played the important question is how many of those game were they difference makers and for Crosby he has a much higher ratio IMO.

The classic example of this is comparing Ovi/Crosby strictly on points.

Crosby has 17 more points in 157 less games and it's over enough of a total number of games 1190 to matter.

Let Crosby play to 42 and then see what percentage of games are difference makers. As of right now Lidstrom has more top end games played than Crosby.

Interesting poll

Are we voting based on each individuals best season with the Wings/Pens, or using their career year regardless of what team they played for?

In other words, am I voting for a prime Hasek or a 38 year old Hasek?

I went with top season on said team. Things get goofy in a hurry if you allow peaks from different teams.