Post-Game Talk: | Pens vs Leafs | loss | No more streaking

[HandshakeLine]

Sure, the NMC is a bit of a hurdle, but again, if you're moving him out West to a contender, not trading him to Arizona or whatever, I think Rust would consider it, unless he's really into Isley's chipped ham.

 

[eXile3]

I really wish Kap would get another chance just so I can stop reading about how it’s all Sullivan’s fault.

What would it take though? Top 6 & number 1 pp time? What do people realistically want to see?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

There's something that I think a lot of us here need to get used to. Maybe we're really just not that good anymore. While our structures been better of late, and our Gap has been much better! We're not explosive anymore, we have skill, but we're not the most skilled. We're middle of the pack at best. And were the oldest team in the National Hockey league. Everyone needs to really lower their expectations. This is the beginning of the end. We might squeak into the playoffs, but honestly for the long run that might not be the best thing. Mediocrity is not where you want to be. Be real good or be real bad!

Agreed, but with the signings of Geno and Letang in the off season, I don't think they wanna be real bad.

I'm ok to slowly starting to think to rebuild, trade Dumo and Zucker for assets and if any team comes calling for other players make them available..

 

[HandshakeLine]

What would it take though? Top 6 & number 1 pp time? What do people realistically want to see?

Who do you think Kap is, Rust?

Just swap out Heinen (who's also terrible at the moment) for Kap, try to pump Kap's tires a bit, and then move him. Acting like this is some crazy plan is really weird.

 

[Pens x]

It’s not Sullivan’s fault that Kap sucks, but it’s weird that turds like Heinen get a free pass to suck, and Rust continues to get prime opportunities.

Demoting Rust to the bottom six seems like such a no brainer to me. Again, we moved Dump to the bottom pair, why can’t we do the same to Rust?

 

[Andy99]

Sure, the NMC is a bit of a hurdle, but again, if you're moving him out West to a contender, not trading him to Arizona or whatever, I think Rust would consider it, unless he's really into Isley's chipped ham.

Rust signed here quickly, at what he perceived was a discount, because he wants to be here near his wife’s family and have some stability with small kids…you thinking he’s gonna be fine waiving to go to even Colorado is ridiculous…moreover, what does that say to the other players when a guy who’s been here six years and gets a six year deal is approached to waive his NMC for a trade? Hint: it’s not “I better work harder/play better or I’ll be benched or traded.” It’s more like “what a f**king shitty organization this is to do that to a respected member of the team who’s been having a bad six weeks”

 

[Gurglesons]

The thing is that's all you can say positively about Kasperi Kapanen as a Pittsburgh Penguin. Tries really hard and skates really hard. It doesn't translate into a good player. Kapanen has been a reclamation project basically his whole career and the ship has sailed. To suggest he deserves top-6 minutes right now is lunacy.

That being said, it's hard to ignore how bad Rust has been playing. But that's 1 month of bad hockey. You look at the guy's history as a Pen and come on man - the odds are basically nil that he doesn't snap out of his funk.

Just because one guy is sucking right now (Rust) doesn't mean you plug in another doofus (Kapanen) to replace his minutes. We've got a handful of hungry wingers in WBS who deserve a spot. McGinn has been playing responsible hockey all season, he deserves the top-6 minutes.

Regarding the Euro point. I think you're right there is a bias but unfortunately all coaches have their system and Sully is hard-nosed in his system, just like most coaches are. But in the case of Kapanen, I completely disagree. He's not being discriminated against, he just sucks, and he has never reached expectations in Pittsburgh. The window is closing and we don't have any time left for a 27 year old reclamation project. I never liked the guy but the Morgan Geekie goal was the final nail in the coffin for me. I think it was for Sullivan too.

I do actually expect Sully to demote Rust in the next game or so and to try Rakell on PP1. Maybe later than this board wanted but better late than never.

Kapanen is above .5 PPG in his time with PIT.

 

[eXile3]

Who do you think Kap is, Rust?

Just swap out Heinen (who's also terrible at the moment) for Kap, try to pump Kap's tires a bit, and then move him. Acting like this is some crazy plan is really weird.

Sounds reasonable. I was honestly asking what people expect.

I would love to see Kap turn into a middle six guy, maybe even a 2nd line winger, I just don’t see it. Would gladly be wrong.

 

[LOGiK]

Rust hit a few posts too. Last game just yet...
Close....

 

[Zbynek]

Kapanen is above .5 PPG in his time with PIT.

Yea, but he's .40 in his last 100 games or so.

No need to cream yourself over a 32 point player. Also no need to pay them 3.2 million over 2 years just because they skate really fast and got drafted in the first round.

I dunno about you when a guy gets drafted 22nd overall I'm hoping for a little more than 32 points a year. He was supposed to be a goal-scorer but has scored 12 goals in the past 100 games.

Kapanen has played himself out of a role in Pittsburgh. Simple as

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea, but he's .40 in his last 100 games or so.

No need to cream yourself over a 32 point player. Also no need to pay them 3.2 million over 2 years just because they skate really fast and got drafted in the first round.

I dunno about you when a guy gets drafted 22nd overall I'm hoping for a little more than 32 points a year. He was supposed to be a goal-scorer but has scored 12 goals in the past 100 games.

Kapanen has played himself out of a role in Pittsburgh. Simple as

Not really “creaming” myself. I don’t really like Kapanen, but I feel like he is a more useful player than Heinen or Archibald if we can get him going and actually is one of better forwards at working through physicality.

 

[Gurglesons]

Archibald (especially over this last 8 game stretch) has been playing great, especially considering his:
-role on the team
-contract value
-the minutes he gets.

Kapanen meanwhile did absolute zilch with those things. We don't have a fit here at all. If we can get anything net positive for him on the trade market, I will be amazed.

PPG is a perfectly fine stat to look at, especially if you're an offensive forward. Your job is to score points and pot goals. Kapanen never really did that for us.

Playing Kapanen with Jeff Carter for 9-10 minutes isn’t really what I’d call trying to find a fit for him.

People are really pulling out a revisionist history as far as Kapanen’s usage the pat two years.

He consistently gets scratched, benched, and thrown around the line up and expected to succeed no matter what.

Archibald has been fine.

 

[SEALBound]

I dunno, I think you could convince Rust to waive to go West to a contender for a different style of top 6 tweener. Rust has always been streaky, but not this streaky and even when playing his game, his perimeter play is not what this team needs at the moment, nor is he a good physical energy guy these days, especially with a relatively healthy Zucker and the addition of Rackell. What we do need is a someone who isn't a net liability on every line. I think moving Rust could do that, especially if his royal highness King Rust the First doesn't want to grace us with a full game.

Maybe? He just gave up the open market and presumably money on the table to stay in Pittsburgh. I'm not sure how keen he would be about waiving and being traded two months into his 6-year deal.

That said, I struggled to see who would take him. Not because he isn't good but because of the cap hit. There aren't many realistic swaps out there. There are three options, really:

1. Player for player. Looking at similar-ish contracts, age, skills, etc.
2. Rust for a Player+. Taking back a lesser player and a pick or prospect.
3. Rust+ for a Player. Paying a bit more to get a better player back.

Option 1, here's who I see: Josh Anderson, Reilly Smith, Jonathan Marchessault, Mikael Granlund, and Jordan Eberle.

Option 2, there's several options but it would depend on how young of a guy a team is willing to part with and how many extra years they are willing to eat. Some options include: Victor Olofsson and Nick Schmaltz.

Options 3, there's few swaps I would consider but some might include: Tyler Bertuzzi, Mark Scheifele, and Timo Meier. What the pluses there would be, who knows. Likely a 1st. Maybe more.

I stand by the initial comment that the best overall swap...is for the MonStars to give finish up their game in Looney Tune land against Bugs and Wayne, and give Rust his talent back.

 

[ronduguayshair]

As far as people I feel bad for, the son of an NHL athlete drafted in the first round is really low down on the list.

 

[Zbynek]

Go check Kap's game logs / TOI throughout the '21/'22 season.

At the start of the season he was consistently getting 17-19 mins a night but his ice-team whittled down by season's end (according to his play).

This isn't something that happened overnight. We can't pretend Kap hasn't sucked for over 100 games now.

Mike Sullivan is.... a lot of things.... but he's handled Kapanen just fine.

 

[Gurglesons]

Go check Kap's game logs / TOI throughout the '21/'22 season.

At the start of the season he was consistently getting 17-19 mins a night but his ice-team whittled down by season's end (according to his play).

This isn't something that happened overnight. We can't pretend Kap hasn't sucked for over 100 games now.

Mike Sullivan is.... a lot of things.... but he's handled Kapanen just fine.

Kapanen was getting 17-19 minutes because the entire team was injured.

 

[ronduguayshair]

Kapanen and O'Connor (or some other tweener) for Travis Konecny would be like the perfect trade that could never happen.

 

[Zbynek]

Kapanen was getting 17-19 minutes because the entire team was injured.

He had Malkin for the half-season that he was healthy last year + the NYR series. You're upset he got Jeff Carter to play with... what do you want, reward him for his 32 point season and put him with 87?

 

[SEALBound]

Kapanen and O'Connor (or some other tweener) for Travis Konecny would be like the perfect trade that could never happen.

If they offered us Scott Laughton and Hayden Hodgson for Jake Guentzel, would you do it?

 

[Zbynek]

Kapanen is so f***ing bad man I'm tiring myself out talking about him. Complete disappointment that, thanks to JR, we got to live through 2 times. Please ship this guy out to Arizona already.

 

[SUBdrewgANS]

so now we go on a 5+ game losing streak right?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Sounds reasonable. I was honestly asking what people expect.

I would love to see Kap turn into a middle six guy, maybe even a 2nd line winger, I just don’t see it. Would gladly be wrong.

I hear ya. But I think at this point the focus shouldn’t be rehabilitating Kap, it should probably be getting someone the coach trusts there in the bottom 6 and save a few bucks if you can. Paradoxically the best way to do that is to play Kap but manage those minutes and situations until someone bites.

 

[pistolpete11]

Playing Kapanen with Jeff Carter for 9-10 minutes isn’t really what I’d call trying to find a fit for him.

People are really pulling out a revisionist history as far as Kapanen’s usage the pat two years.

He consistently gets scratched, benched, and thrown around the line up and expected to succeed no matter what.

Archibald has been fine.

I don't disagree with you on Kapanen, but Carter has 7GP, 3P (all even strength) and is a +3 since Kapanen has been benched. If Kapanen gets in here for Heinen, we'll see how much of that was adding McGinn to that line vs. removing Kap.

 

[SEALBound]

I really wish Kap would get another chance just so I can stop reading about how it’s all Sullivan’s fault.

What would it take though? Top 6 & number 1 pp time? What do people realistically want to see?

I think what I would want to see, is accountability. By most counts, Heinen has played at a level that should have him HS'd in favor of Kapanen.

Not unlike Rust getting the benefit of the doubt with L1 way, way, WAY longer than he should have through a f***ing 7 game-losing streak. He should have been yanked before that. Same thing with Heinen here. He's not doing much and I suggest we give him a game or two in the press box and give Kapanen another shot.

He may or may not do anything with that opportunity but it would at least give the illusion that Sullivan is holding everyone accountable equally. I don't think it's that much of a stretch to suggest that Kapanen has been held much more "accountable" than every other person on the roster. So when people say Sullivan's fault, while it may or may not be true in reality, the perception is certainly justifiable.

 

[ronduguayshair]

If they offered us Scott Laughton and Hayden Hodgson for Jake Guentzel, would you do it?

I don't know enough about those players.