Pens too soft?

[Dutchess]

http://twopadstack.net/pluses-minuses-penguins-soft/

Click to read more...

 

[Til the End of Time]

i think the d-corps is far too soft. they are ok for the regular season, but they are the antithesis of a blueline built for playoff hockey.

 

[billybudd]

Content of the article does not match the question in the headline. To spare anyone the waste of time, this article is a general plus minus of the Pens-Wings game that is being linked 4 days after it was played. Whether the "Pens too soft" is not a topic that is actually examined.

My biggest takeaway is that the author thinks Blake Comeau, who is quick and average sized, plays a lot like Ryan Malone, who was always big and slow.

I should really have known better than to click the link, but my curiosity got the better of me.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I agree with TTEOT. The blueline being soft is the biggest issue right now. We've improved our toughness up front since last year.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

Soft mentally?

Definitely. The performances in the third period were awful.

Soft physically?

Yes.

Soft on the backend?

Soft top-four. Bortuzzo brings some much needed grit and size on the backend.

Undersized?

Of course.

A legitimate heavyweight presence in the lineup?

Nope.

Younger players in the organization that provide toughness?

On the backend. But, not with the forwards.

It is still early in the season. However, these changes need to be made. What happened to the emotion from the Anaheim game?

 

[MtlPenFan]

Blackhawks have the same type of D that they won a cup with. Play the game properly and it's a non issue.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Blackhawks have the same type of D that they won a cup with. Play the game properly and it's a non issue.

Who is our Brent Seabrook? We don't have one of those. Who is our Duncan Keith? I guess it's Letang, but not a the same level. Who is our Hjalmarsson? I guess it's Paul Martin but Hjalmarsson is a mixture of Martin's best attributes and a young Rob Scuderi's best attributes.

We need to be a lot less soff on D. That starts with more minutes for Despres and adding Robert Bortuzzo to the lineup.

 

[ProgOg]

Blackhawks have the same type of D that they won a cup with. Play the game properly and it's a non issue.

Yeah - they have 4 guys among their 7 D that are below 195 lbs (and among those, three that are below 188 lbs). They also don't hit much.

For comparison: the Penguins don't have a single D that is below 200 lbs. They also only have one guy below 188 lbs on their whole roster: Fleury (Hornqvist is close with 189 lbs, though).

I'm sure the people saying that the Penguins D was physically weak didn't necessarily mean it in this sense - but you don't need to be big to play big.

Blackhawks play a really suffocating system, though - with guys put into positions that help cover most weaknesses, while showcasing their strengths.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Yeah - they have 4 guys among their 7 D that are below 195 lbs (and among those, three that are below 188 lbs). They also don't hit much.

For comparison: the Penguins don't have a single D that is below 200 lbs. They also only have one guy below 188 lbs on their whole roster: Fleury (Hornqvist is close with 189 lbs, though).

I'm sure the people saying that the Penguins D was physically weak didn't necessarily mean it in this sense - but you don't need to be big to play big.

Blackhawks play a really suffocating system, though - with guys put into positions that help cover most weaknesses, while showcasing their strengths.

Right. Plus, they're just better at defending. AND, a guy like Seabrook can change the course of a game (or a series in the playoffs) with one big hit. And he plays on the top pairing and contributes some offense, too. We have Bortuzzo, who's more of a third-pairing guy. The closest thing we have to Seabrook is Despres, but he's still a work-in-progress defender and will never reach Seabrook's status (I think it's safe to say).

 

[Hottubber]

Who is our Brent Seabrook? We don't have one of those. Who is our Duncan Keith? I guess it's Letang, but not a the same level. Who is our Hjalmarsson? I guess it's Paul Martin but Hjalmarsson is a mixture of Martin's best attributes and a young Rob Scuderi's best attributes.

We need to be a lot less soff on D. That starts with more minutes for Despres and adding Robert Bortuzzo to the lineup.

Even getting Harrington in the lineup will add some feistiness. He has definitely gotten more physical the past couple of seasons

 

[ProgOg]

Right. Plus, they're just better at defending. AND, a guy like Seabrook can change the course of a game (or a series in the playoffs) with one big hit. And he plays on the top pairing and contributes some offense, too. We have Bortuzzo, who's more of a third-pairing guy. The closest thing we have to Seabrook is Despres, but he's still a work-in-progress defender and will never reach Seabrook's status (I think it's safe to say).

I read a lot of comments that Seabrook has been not really reaching that status in the last year or so, too. Surprised me a little, but after watching a few games last season, the playoffs and now - maybe.

But yeah, Keith is the heart of that D core. After that I consider Hjalmarsson the next best defender.

I do think the success is more about the system in the end - they had so much turnover among the lower D pairings, and it still mostly works. Having two Selke caliber guys in Hossa and Toews will help with that.

 

[MtlPenFan]

It's not that their system is suffocating. They get the **** pressured out of them often WHEN the opposing team can establish a cycle.

But their mantra is basically to have puck possession so they don't have to play defense.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I thought Seabrook was their second-best player against the Blues in Round 1 last spring (after Crawford). But he seemed to struggle more as the playoffs rolled on. Perhaps that hit on Backes took a lot out of him too (as well as Backes).

But yes, they don't play the same system so we can't expect to duplicate their performance on D.

We have a better power play than they do. We have much better center depth. They have better goaltending, much better winger production.

The two teams are just built differently.

 

[theicebox]

Can a mod please change the spelling of 'soft' in the thread title to the Therrien-ism? Jeez.

 

[Penguinator]

Can a mod please change the spelling of 'soft' in the thread title to the Therrien-ism? Jeez.

Why? It did attract our favourite clueless troll, whom i find semi-entertaining...

 

[mpp9]

I don't think we need to add any more size or physicality on defense. We just need to have guys who battle for possession. I'd say Seabrook and Hjalmarsson do that better than Paul Martin. He was pretty damn soft around the net this past postseason. And that's just not his game. Letang has his warts, but he'll throw his weight around and at least attempt to move guys from the crease.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Content of the article does not match the question in the headline. To spare anyone the waste of time, this article is a general plus minus of the Pens-Wings game that is being linked 4 days after it was played. Whether the "Pens too soft" is not a topic that is actually examined.

My biggest takeaway is that the author thinks Blake Comeau, who is quick and average sized, plays a lot like Ryan Malone, who was always big and slow.

I should really have known better than to click the link, but my curiosity got the better of me.

Thank you, almost clicked it til I saw your post.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Bortuzzo in the line-up definitely helps.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

A healthy line-up would take care of that.

Not that we'll ever have it.

 

[canadianguy77]

Borts and Despres are 2 guys who can be big nasty sobs to play against. I'm waiting for MJ to scratch Scuderi so we can actually see some of that against teams like Philly and Boston.

 

[Aela*]

i don't understand our (pens fans in general) obsession with 'softness'

do we really want a heavyweight player on our team? because most of those guys end up putting teams on the PK a lot, lengthy suspensions, and are terrible players in general

would i like our players to stand up for each other and fight if needed? absolutely

i don't think that's a huge problem though

i would like to get some better players that can cycle the puck and work the corners as well as clear the net a lot better (on D) though

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Can a mod please change the spelling of 'soft' in the thread title to the Therrien-ism? Jeez.

This.

Kovachoo. Not one guy.

 

[cygnus47]

The only softness I'm worried about is our mental softness. All sorts of lineups win the cup, you don't have to be the LA Kings or Boston to win. We're soft with leads, we're soft with discipline, our effort goes in waves, our goalie is even wackier than the average. Those things have to change, we don't have to bring in heavyweights or humongous bodies or fight more often or hit everything that moves or always chip and chase to win the cup.

 

[Tender Rip]

The weakness on the Pens D was a combination of an atrocious "not fit for the playoffs" system under Bylsma; that a couple of our guys are very much susceptible to turning it over against a strong forecheck, and a few others are/have had a hard time outletting the puck.

With Orpik and Engelland gone, it is really only Scuderi who is left fitting the last category. Take away Martin also and that's two guys who don't hit or play physical, and we'd be down to pretty much only having Ehrhoff who seems somewhat soff. Every team, pretty much, have at least one.
Once the new system is installed and ingrained, I have big hopes that our D-zone performance will be more akin to Chicago's than it has in the past.

If our D for the future is something like:

Maatta Letang
Despres Ehrhoff
Harrington Bortuzzo

... with Pouliot gradually taking over from Ehrhoff, I don't think we have much to worry about size or toughness wise. Then it is about those guys playing as well as we hope/think they can.

 

[Til the End of Time]

i wish the pens had drafted trouba.