Salary Cap: Pens Salary Thread: Pens Ownership "Dubas... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some waiver players in there."

[Gurglesons]

Same but if he fire's the invincible sullivan, I do believe it will send a shock of changed through the whole organization. I honestly think trading Malkin or Letang does nothing.

They have two moves to shake this organization up.

Fire Sullivan
Trade Sid

That's it. Nothing else will produce change anymore.

Yeah, it's quite sad the predicament we are in.

Usually, I have fun messing around capfriendly during the summer with our roster, but it's pretty much locked in for next year.

 

[Darren McCord]

Yeah, it's quite sad the predicament we are in.

Usually, I have fun messing around capfriendly during the summer with our roster, but it's pretty much locked in for next year.

I mean they could move Smith and Rakell for peanuts I think. But doesn't matter. You could bring in Lindholm, Jake and whatever other top UFA but nothing changes unless one of those moves happens.

Smith makes less than his cap hit next year. I could see him going to like Arizona for a 7th

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean they could move Smith and Rakell for peanuts I think. But doesn't matter. You could bring in Lindholm, Jake and whatever other top UFA but nothing changes unless one of those moves happens.

Smith makes less than his cap hit next year. I could see him going to like Arizona for a 7th

I don't think Rakell can be moved.

Smith I think we'd have to retain on or take a bad contract back.

Will be interesting.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I'm not even exaggerating, you make any of us the Coach this season and the Pens make the playoffs. It's like Sullivan's goal was to make every wrong decision this season. Make absolutely no adjustments in game or during the season. Have the worst PP possible. Build the absolute worst line-ups from the choices available. Frankly it's incredible, nothing redeeming about the shit he did this season.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not even exaggerating, you make any of us the Coach this season and the Pens make the playoffs. It's like Sullivan's goal was to make every wrong decision this season. Make absolutely no adjustments in game or during the season. Have the worst PP possible. Build the absolute worst line-ups from the choices available. Frankly it's incredible, nothing redeeming about the shit he did this season.

You could say the same with Dubas.

His level of inactivity was somehow even more remarkable than Hextall's last season.

Hextall was criticized for not taking action when we were a 44 pt team that was 14th in the league in terms of points, tied for the 8th spot in the playoffs and within distance to go above the Rangers on January 1st, 2024.

On January 1st we were a point out with multiple teams around us in the same position and we just sat on our thumbs doing nothing of consequence until we traded Jake Guentzel lol.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hockey is a difficult game to learn. Perhaps Dubas and FSG are taking the same night school classes on it?

 

[Pancakes]

You could say the same with Dubas.

His level of inactivity was somehow even more remarkable than Hextall's last season.

Hextall was criticized for not taking action when we were a 44 pt team that was 14th in the league in terms of points, tied for the 8th spot in the playoffs and within distance to go above the Rangers on January 1st, 2024.

On January 1st we were a point out with multiple teams around us in the same position and we just sat on our thumbs doing nothing of consequence until we traded Jake Guentzel lol.

I'm honestly starting to wonder if Dubas preferred to let the Pens fall on their sword this year.

If rumors are to be believed he never seriously pursued re-signing Guentzel even before the Pens fell flat on their faces. He gave him what sounds like one lowball offer and then called it a day.

It almost seems like he wanted to trade Guentzel all along and was just waiting for the team to be bad enough to justify doing it.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Pens should intentionally rebuild but keep telling us they’re not rebuilding

 

[HandshakeLine]

If he just wanted to trade Guentzel in order to rebuild, why ask for Bunting?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If he just wanted to trade Guentzel in order to rebuild, why ask for Bunting?

I know this is crazy..

But just as it’s possible Dubas valued Bunting it’s also possible Carolina made us take Bunting because of their cap going forward into the next two years.

We will never know, because Dubas isn’t going to say “I ascribed no value to Bunting” when he acquired him. I vehemently disagree with anyone that pretends to truly understand from the fan perspective. We don’t know if he did, we don’t know if he didn’t (ascribe value to Bunting).

 

[HandshakeLine]

I know this is crazy..

But just as it’s possible Dubas valued Bunting it’s also possible Carolina made us take Bunting because of their cap going forward into the next two years.

We will never know, because Dubas isn’t going to say “I ascribed no value to Bunting” when he acquired him. I vehemently disagree with anyone that pretends to truly understand from the fan perspective. We don’t know if he did, we don’t know if he didn’t (ascribe value to Bunting).

I’m perfectly willing to believe that, it’s only that if we were doing Carolina a favor, we should have gotten more for doing it.

Again, I just don’t think this team thinks it’s rebuilding. None of their moves make any iota of sense except from that perspective.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Pens should intentionally rebuild but keep telling us they’re not rebuilding

They are doing a pretty good job of this now.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

They are doing a pretty good job of this now.

You're wrong... we totally have a chance....

 

[Zbynek]

I’m perfectly willing to believe that, it’s only that if we were doing Carolina a favor, we should have gotten more for doing it.

Again, I just don’t think this team thinks it’s rebuilding. None of their moves make any iota of sense except from that perspective.

How much deeper can this org plunge into this hellish limbo we call Penguins hockey? I have a hunch we haven't seen the worst just yet

 

[HandshakeLine]

How much deeper can this org plunge into this hellish limbo we call Penguins hockey? I have a hunch we haven't seen the worst just yet

It’s gonna rule when we turn ourselves into the Maple Leafs.

 

[Gurglesons]

I know this is crazy..

But just as it’s possible Dubas valued Bunting it’s also possible Carolina made us take Bunting because of their cap going forward into the next two years.

We will never know, because Dubas isn’t going to say “I ascribed no value to Bunting” when he acquired him. I vehemently disagree with anyone that pretends to truly understand from the fan perspective. We don’t know if he did, we don’t know if he didn’t (ascribe value to Bunting).

Yeah, I bet the guy Dubas specifically called out in his trade as an asset and has a very deep relationship with just was randomly brought into the trade for "cap reasons".

Carolina had like 26+ mil in cap space with Bunting next year.

 

[Zbynek]

Yea.......It's not that deep, Dubas actually think Bunting is good. Which if you can't tell by now means we're f***ed.

 

[SomeDude]

It’s gonna rule when we turn ourselves into the Maple Leafs.

Except no endless resources. Once the team has sucked for awhile and the legends are gone, they won’t be able to give tickets away.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yea.......It's not that deep, Dubas actually think Bunting is good. Which if you can't tell by now means we're f***ed.

It's so weird how people are trying to overthink this.

If Hextall brought in JVR last deadline people wouldn't be like "oh how random!"

 

[molon labe]

How much deeper can this org plunge into this hellish limbo we call Penguins hockey? I have a hunch we haven't seen the worst just yet

Well we just need to *evaluate* before making any decisions.

I'd say we should give it until the TDL in 2025 before considering any changes. I believe in this group and you just need to trust the process.

- Sullivan is a great coach and can coach forever.
- Geno is still a 2C that can carry IIHL callups to L2 NHL production
- Ryan Graves is an NHLer
- Tristan Jarry is worth a lifetime contract
- DOC is a top 6 NHL forward
- You can't spend a better 15M than Rakell/Smith/Rust in this league

Trust the process. Just keep waiting because eventually something will happen. Don't worry what that 'something' might be. This is a good hockey team that just had some bad bounces over the last 2000 days.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Agreed but Dubas is still the one that sends players up and down. So in the sense of "Sullivan plays the guys that Dubas gives him", well now they are both at fault.

Realistically, though, Dubas and Sullivan likely speak daily, so it's not like they aren't on the same page about the "whens and whos" of call-ups. The thing we don't really know, is how much Dubas actually agrees with Sullivan on some guys. We'll take Harkins for example - we don't really know if Dubas likes him as much as Sullivan does or if he's just there because Sully really, REALLY advocated for him. To the most practical extent possible, they have to be on the same page. That was something they said was bad about Hextall was that there was little communication between between him and Sully. Sully wanted Chychrun and Hextall and Pryor went out and got Granlund (and paid a 2nd for the privilege).

I would think Dubas focuses on the cap-compliance (and any other NHL compliance) issues while Sully focuses on what helps him win. So yeah...if Sully is not allowed to play players because of NHL rules, then that is on Sully, and yes, I do remember that happening a bunch of times.

It was Dubas’ job to sign garbage players for Sully? Way to try to deflect blame, but the crappy bottom six was because of Dubas.

I was responding to the OP...
You blame Dubas for the team not playing youth?

I can agree that we can blame Dubas for: Acciari, Nieto, Smith

Though he had to undo a lot of crap that Hextall did. I'll be honest, that EK trade holds a lot of weight in my eyes. That was pure magic getting rid of all that crap, and salary and get EK instead.

I think Sully is the bigger problem here by far.

To both of you...
It's reasonable to say that Dubas didn't make the job easy on Sully and provide him with a "no brainer" quality level of players for the bottom 6.

However, I feel Sully could have done more with what he had available. He just expects youth to be 100% ready to go, and unless you're Crosby/Malkin, it doesn't seem to work like that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

What process has there been since 2016?

Might as well be fondling sheep entrails over here, at least that was a proper system.

Bring back the worship of Caesar Augustus I say.

 

[eXile3]

I’m kind of concerned with what Dubas will do with cap space. I have a feeling we didn’t want to pay Jake 10 million so we can pay Bunting and some other overpaid UFA 10 million.

 

[HandshakeLine]

If you are not concerned about Dubas’ hires I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you are not concerned about Dubas’ hires I don’t know what to tell you.

Quit being so negative!