Speculation: Pens' Powerplay Problems

[Asuna]

Vigneault is a very underrated coach. Would have loved to see him come here.

 

[ColePens]

I know we are slightly OT w/ the PP talk, but the Rags have been healthy scratching Glass, too. He just doesn't fit that mold.


But to come back to the discussion point, you can put Lemieux, Gretzky, Sid, Geno, and Orr on the powerplay and it won't make a difference if you don't have movement. Sadly the Pens have had opportunities to just step forward and shoot and they also choose not to (Sid/Geno) as they look for the perfect play.

At the beginning of the season, they were shooting and moving all over the map. I think it boils down to both Sid/Geno wanting that half wall. Sid needs to go down below the goalline and stop looking to pass and just keep crashing the net. Once they start moving towards Sid, then it opens up the half wall.

 

[wej20]

I know we are slightly OT w/ the PP talk, but the Rags have been healthy scratching Glass, too. He just doesn't fit that mold.


But to come back to the discussion point, you can put Lemieux, Gretzky, Sid, Geno, and Orr on the powerplay and it won't make a difference if you don't have movement. Sadly the Pens have had opportunities to just step forward and shoot and they also choose not to (Sid/Geno) as they look for the perfect play.

At the beginning of the season, they were shooting and moving all over the map. I think it boils down to both Sid/Geno wanting that half wall. Sid needs to go down below the goalline and stop looking to pass and just keep crashing the net. Once they start moving towards Sid, then it opens up the half wall.

Yep movement is a must. Along with quick puck movement and trying to get everyone involved, not Sid/Geno/Letang holding onto it and trying to make something happen.

 

[DegenX]

I know we are slightly OT w/ the PP talk, but the Rags have been healthy scratching Glass, too. He just doesn't fit that mold.


But to come back to the discussion point, you can put Lemieux, Gretzky, Sid, Geno, and Orr on the powerplay and it won't make a difference if you don't have movement. Sadly the Pens have had opportunities to just step forward and shoot and they also choose not to (Sid/Geno) as they look for the perfect play.

At the beginning of the season, they were shooting and moving all over the map. I think it boils down to both Sid/Geno wanting that half wall. Sid needs to go down below the goalline and stop looking to pass and just keep crashing the net. Once they start moving towards Sid, then it opens up the half wall.

Yet another reason to give them each their own PP. I know, I know, it's not going to happen, but it should.

 

[cygnus47]

There are a few great setups we could use:

Horny - Crosby
Perron - Malkin
Letang

Horny - Crosby
------- - Malkin
Letang - Ehrhoff

Horny - Crosby
Perron - Malkin
--------- Ehrhoff

There are 6 different one timer passes available from either side of the ice in each of those setups. The key is getting in the zone consistently and attacking the net and using the zone to open up those plays. There's no use just playing catch at the blue line and going for easy one timers, even with Horny creating havoc. You need to use the depth in the zone to get players out of position. Letang also needs to mask his passes but I'm not sure that's ever going to happen. We also need to get the pass off the pads happening which we seem to have forgotten about for like 3 years.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can understand the argument with the right handed shot but only to a degree. But what bothers me is that Letang gets endless praise for even the simplest things of the game all season long so far (especially by Steigerwald, man... I hate this guy). He has been solid, sure, but he also plays too risky for my taste, leaving the own zone unprotected. Letang was key for all (or most?) SH goals against this team so far because he wasn't ready to get back. He really makes bad decisions which are very dangerous on a regular basis.

Why has the org invested a lot in him so far? What do you mean by this? Because he was injured a long time?

If I knew how to make gifs, I would go back every Pens game this year and show that for the most part, Letang almost always covers up for his mistakes on the power play. Sid and Geno are the key to those shorthanded goals. They often make lazy passes and then don't commit to making it back to back check thinking that Letang will just clean it up for them. Sid is especially notorious for this and if he wasn't the best player in the league, I'd argue he was the weak link on the power play.

Malkin shoots. Kunitz and Hornqvist set up in front of the net. Letang and Ehrhoff play to their strengths whether it be Letang making precision passes and stepping up or Ehrhoff taking slappers from the top.

Sid is always the one rovering around making behind his back passes and not taking a shot when he should. It is beyond frustrating, especially given the fact he is such a supreme talent. If he shot once or twice more on the power play, he'd actually be out of his goal slump.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

If you look how the umbrella is set up in my earlier post, to go along with Letang's own misgivings at times, a bad turnover from one of the others leaves him the only guy back.

Look at as taking a high risk for high reward set up. You'd think with the skill they have on the PP it would be minimized.

The two PP's is so what I want this team to do. Such a huge advantage.

Is it just me or do I correctly remember Ehrhoff getting a couple consecutive games on the top unit in December? Around the time right after Pouliot was called up.

 

[WayneSid9987]

What i would try for PP1 is Erhoff as the QB. Letang on the left side. Get him firing one timers(like the one he scored to tie the game against Columbus late). Geno the right one timer option. Horny net front and Sid working downlow/netfront.

For me, thats not only the better setup for the playoffs but it gives PP2 Perron and Kunitz. PP1 is also more equipped to handle shorthanded chances going to the other way with Tanger and 2 D on it.

 

[deakka]

Switch let and with Pouliot or Ehrhoff. Let and has never been a good PPQB and that's why I was hesitant in giving him his current contract. Great 5v5 but doesn't have the cool or smarts to be the QB.

 

[JTG]

We need Hornqvist

 

[mpp9]

We need Hornqvist

Its really that simple. We need more net presence. It'll give Sid, Geno and Letang more room to make plays, and it'll make our shots more dangerous, specifically, Geno's one timer.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Pouliot as PP QB, Hornqvist in front of the net...our top PP unit would be just fine, imo.

Will the coach be able to 'demote' Letang and Kunitz, though? And how do we get Pouliot in the lineup? Those are the key questions.

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Pouliot, Malkin


That would be my first unit.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yet another reason to give them each their own PP. I know, I know, it's not going to happen, but it should.

It should. Someone should explain it to Sid and Geno they're killing their advantage they have on every single team in the league over egos.

PP#1
-------------[net]
-------------Horn


Perron--------------------Sid




---------Maatta--------Letang

PP#1-b


----------------[net]
----------------coon


Beua/Downie/Comeau-------------Malkin



Martin/Despres--------------Ehrhoff



We should see a lot of less indecision not having both Sid and Geno clogging up one side of the ice on one PP unit. The wear and tear would drop dramatically. Fresher team for longer = more chances over the deadspan they'd need to recover from being out there together for a minute and a half to almost two full minutes. Rather than coming back with the 4th with a fresh top line from the other team after the PP is up.<---huge flaw.

Is it just me or do I correctly remember Ehrhoff getting a couple consecutive games on the top unit in December? Around the time right after Pouliot was called up.

IBTO, I vaguely remember it, meaning I am not sure at all.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

No it shouldn't. The last thing this team needs is to be giving either Crosby or Malkin LESS ice time. If you want to have a team with both on the roster, and I assume EVERYBODY here does, then you have to accept that both have to play on the first PP unit. Perhaps when they're in their mid-30's like Datsyuk and Zetterberg are, you can start using two units. But not when they're in their prime.

We've had the best power play in the league before with both on the first unit. We've been frequently in the top five. So you're not fixing anything by splitting them up.

A real pain in the butt in front of the net (like Hornqvist) and a true PP quarterback (like Pouliot) would fix things.

 

[joeyjake5]

The two constants on the PP are Crosby and Geno. For the last 20 games or so, it hasn't been working. Having 2 of the best 5 or 10 NHL players and it is still not working. Simple solution, have two PP units one with Sid and one with Geno.

 

[mpp9]

Hornqvist in front. Perron in the slot. Letang at the point keeping pucks in and being a saftey net for SH chances against. Sid and Geno rotating between the left and right boards.

Id like to see that for a few weeks when PH is back.

 

[DegenX]

It should. Someone should explain it to Sid and Geno they're killing their advantage they have on every single team in the league over egos.

PP#1
-------------[net]
-------------Horn


Perron--------------------Sid




---------Maatta--------Letang

PP#1-b


----------------[net]
----------------coon


Beua/Downie/Comeau-------------Malkin



Martin/Despres--------------Ehrhoff



We should see a lot of less indecision not having both Sid and Geno clogging up one side of the ice on one PP unit. The wear and tear would drop dramatically. Fresher team for longer = more chances over the deadspan they'd need to recover from being out there together for a minute and a half to almost two full minutes. Rather than coming back with the 4th with a fresh top line from the other team after the PP is up.<---huge flaw.

I don't think it's Sid or Geno's ego that keeps it from happening ... it's making sure our 3C (first Staal and now Sutter) gets PP time. Easily remedied, though, just put Sutter on one of the units. Agreed about sending out the 4th line after a PP, which is currently a momentum killer. Being able to send Sid or Geno out instead would be a much better option.


PP#1
-------------[net]
-------------Perron


BB--------------------Sid




---------Despres--------Letang

PP#1-b


----------------[net]
----------------Horn


Sutter-------------Malkin



Pouliot--------------Ehrhoff

Is how I would do it. Having Sutter with Geno to take face offs on Geno's weak side. It would mean that the lines might be a little scrambled coming on the ice after the PP was over, depending on how HCMJ sets them up once everyone is healthy, but not enough to really matter.

 

[Ugene Magic]

No it shouldn't. The last thing this team needs is to be giving either Crosby or Malkin LESS ice time. If you want to have a team with both on the roster, and I assume EVERYBODY here does, then you have to accept that both have to play on the first PP unit. Perhaps when they're in their mid-30's like Datsyuk and Zetterberg are, you can start using two units. But not when they're in their prime.

We've had the best power play in the league before with both on the first unit. We've been frequently in the top five. So you're not fixing anything by splitting them up.

A real pain in the butt in front of the net (like Hornqvist) and a true PP quarterback (like Pouliot) would fix things.

That's not fixing things if you're gassing your top players to the point they are not fresher in the latter parts of the game. And the top players in the past played in different positions. Mario RHS on the LW/Francis- center/Jagr LHS on the RW.

What did they win after going to that set up full time?

Where do Sid and Geno want to be again?

What haven't they been able to do the last 5 years in the playoffs?

To me, this is thinking of someone who's worried about both guys getting points rather than making sure they have a better chance to win the game before, during, and after the PP. Sid being a huge Yzerman fan should know what he sacrificed for sake of the team.



Scoring titles<?>Stanley *CHOOSE*

I don't care about the first as much anymore. Injuries have them in what could have been territory. The second is what's going to set their legacies now.

If both happen, great....but the first should "never" over-seed the second.


Crosby should take his picture of Yzerman off his wall, he's not worthy if he doesn't understand, and place a Lemieux/Francis/Jagr one up instead. *POINTS*

 

[Ugene Magic]

I don't think it's Sid or Geno's ego that keeps it from happening ... it's making sure our 3C (first Staal and now Sutter) gets PP time. Easily remedied, though, just put Sutter on one of the units. Agreed about sending out the 4th line after a PP, which is currently a momentum killer. Being able to send Sid or Geno out instead would be a much better option.


PP#1
-------------[net]
-------------Perron


BB--------------------Sid




---------Despres--------Letang

PP#1-b


----------------[net]
----------------Horn


Sutter-------------Malkin



Pouliot--------------Ehrhoff

Is how I would do it. Having Sutter with Geno to take face offs on Geno's weak side. It would mean that the lines might be a little scrambled coming on the ice after the PP was over, depending on how HCMJ sets them up once everyone is healthy, but not enough to really matter.

I don't have a problem with that, and really the set up is open to all interpretations. Getting it to two PP's is the 1st huge step.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Crosby and Malkin get gassed?

 

[billybudd]

Powerplay so far in 14-15:

(red dots are the goals)

That second graph is why I don't obsess about the powerplay. That cluster of red dots around the net isn't easy to defend on a whiteboard. Especially when you've got a good distribution of right and left shots around the periphery.

I don't think the approach is wrong. I'm not sure the personnel is, either. The Devil's just in the details and the details haven't been right for a few months. Just sort it out by April.

And FFS, stop with the cross-ice backhand passes through a tight, four person box. That, not Letang, not Kunitz, is by far the biggest problem we have on the man-advantage currently.

 

[billybudd]

I don't think it's Sid or Geno's ego that keeps it from happening ... it's making sure our 3C (first Staal and now Sutter) gets PP time. Easily remedied, though, just put Sutter on one of the units. Agreed about sending out the 4th line after a PP, which is currently a momentum killer. Being able to send Sid or Geno out instead would be a much better option.


PP#1
-------------[net]
-------------Perron


BB--------------------Sid




---------Despres--------Letang

PP#1-b


----------------[net]
----------------Horn


Sutter-------------Malkin



Pouliot--------------Ehrhoff

Is how I would do it. Having Sutter with Geno to take face offs on Geno's weak side. It would mean that the lines might be a little scrambled coming on the ice after the PP was over, depending on how HCMJ sets them up once everyone is healthy, but not enough to really matter.

Not really a fan. On the first unit, you've got one guy who can finish from mid-range and he's acting like a screen. The second unit's okay I guess, but the first unit strikes me as a single-digit conversion rate sort of deal.

I don't think Tocchet's strategy is wrong. He's using the same configurations Mullen does in Philadelphia. It works. When it doesn't create goals, it creates chances. There's a lot wrong in Philly, but the Powerplay isn't one of their problems. Difference between them and us is those cross-ice backhand passes from circle to circle isn't something their players do.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Crosby and Malkin get gassed?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The PP wasn't going to remain clicking on all cylinders at a 40% clip like earlier in the season, and it's not going to remain as bad as its been lately. Even with the big slump, it's still running at over 21%, seventh in the NHL.

It's going to finish in the top 3. But yeah, let's bump Evgeni Malkin off the top unit. That makes so much sense.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The PP wasn't going to remain clicking on all cylinders at a 40% clip like earlier in the season, and it's not going to remain as bad as its been lately. Even with the big slump, it's still running at over 21%, seventh in the NHL.

It's going to finish in the top 3. But yeah, let's bump Evgeni Malkin off the top unit. That makes so much sense.

It's not bumping him off of, but rather creating two #1 units. We do have two#1 lines. When they first came into the league they had two #1 PP units and the team demolished the league and had plenty in the tank to spare.

They can win the war of attrition, scoring, and the game.