Pre-Game Talk: Pens @ Leafs 11/14

[WayneSid9987]

Theres really nothing to ***** about from me.

MJ's changing it up as he should and this team still needs top 6 help no matter if Dupuis, Comeau or Downie is playing in the top 6.

I expect Bennett to move up if he stays healthy and performs well.

 

[Captain Hook]

I don't think it matters how they arrange their top 6 right now. They have enough good wingers to form one good top 6 line. They'll need to add a bare minimum of one and maybe even two top 6 wingers depending on how they use Beau and his ability to stay healthy going forward to complete their top 6 and have two good lines.

 

[tom_servo]

Maybe Johnston needs to move away from the whole "forward pairs" idea. I get why he wanted to do it, but at the same time I feel it may also limit him in what he can do with the line combinations in the future.

I'm surprised this hasn't been discussed more. Not sure I see the value in a buddy system, unless, through multiple permutations, you can ultimately find two sets of buddies with a common buddy, thereby forming a full line of buddies. With just two buddies you've got a third wheel, and how is that not weird?

 

[Erz8771]

Please please please start MAF. Im not traveling 700 miles to watch a back up.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Why are we breaking up the top line? it's one of the best lines in the NHL? Johnston is being an idiot right now.

Seriously. One bad game and a line that's been productive for the 13 other games is getting broken up? To make matters worse, it likely means ****ing KCD is back as a line?

I thought we were done with that **** when Shero and Bylsma were shown the door. There are other ****ing options in the top six other than Dupuis, for Christ's sake.

I hate that line. I hate it more than seeing Adams and Scuderi as regulars in the lineup. Just thinking about KCD makes me not want to tune in because I've seen this movie and I know how it turns out when it counts.

 

[Stad]

Please please please start MAF. Im not traveling 700 miles to watch a back up.

What's wrong with Greiss? and if i was a betting man i'd say Greiss starts tomorrow and Fleury Saturday.

 

[Boocock]

Although only playing a limited time together, I don't think Bennett and Crosby are a good line combination especially when Kunitz is added to that line. Bennett's off-puck play doesn't mesh with Crosby-Kunitz. Such that even though Bennett is clearly the more skilled player, I don't think Kunitz-Crosby-Bennett especially with Bennett on his off-wing where he also doesn't look as good outplays Kunitz-Crosby-Dupuis.

Also I have a feeling Sutter-Bennett will produce more than Sutter-Dupuis which will influence the decision about where to play Bennett and Dupuis.

Wouldn't Bennett be playing on the right side, with Kunitz on the left? Regardless, he may not play at the speed Sid prefers.

 

[ProgOg]

12th in terms of total 5v5 goals, tied with Minnesota for 6th when factoring in games played. Not too shabby indeed.

The Penguins have played so much on the PP/PK that they are actually 3rd in 5v5 goals/60 minutes.

They did play in a few blowouts, esp. against Buffalo, so I wouldn't say it says too much. But still - pretty good.


Here is Johnston talking about some of his decisions:

[NHL]670619&catid=829[/NHL]

He mentions flexibility as one reason for the lineup changes. Fun fact: someone looked at the teams with the most stable lines and if that relates to success. It doesn't.

The other reason he mentions is depth of scoring.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Oddly enough, I guess I'm not even pissed specifically about Dupuis on Crosby's wing (though that's getting pretty damn old) when it comes down to it. It's keeping Kunitz and Dupuis as a pair on Crosby's wing. We've seen that KCD does *not* work when it matters most. Why even try it again?

If Johnston wants to shake up the top six, why not Dupuis/Crosby/Hornqvist and Kunitz/Malkin/Bennett? Why does this organization continually default to KCD when they hit a rough patch (in this case, one freakin' game)?

 

[ProgOg]

Oddly enough, I guess I'm not even pissed specifically about Dupuis on Crosby's wing (though that's getting pretty damn old) when it comes down to it. It's keeping Kunitz and Dupuis as a pair on Crosby's wing. We've seen that KCD does *not* work when it matters most. Why even try it again?

If Johnston wants to shake up the top six, why not Dupuis/Crosby/Hornqvist and Kunitz/Malkin/Bennett? Why does this organization continually default to KCD when they hit a rough patch (in this case, one freakin' game)?

We did. Johnston did probably, too, but he hasn't seen them while coaching them. As long as he gets the knowledge during the regular season, I guess. They are aware that the top 6 had problems producing during the postseason in the last few years.

It will be a problem if they look good enough that they won't trade for a winger or won't promote Bennett.

I like your top 6 ideas more, though.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

We did. Johnston did probably, too, but he hasn't seen them while coaching them. As long as he gets the knowledge during the regular season, I guess. They are aware that the top 6 had problems producing during the postseason in the last few years.

It will be a problem if they look good enough that they won't trade for a winger or won't promote Bennett.

I like your top 6 ideas more, though.

The problem is that, in the regular season, that line is going to have its share of big nights. Crosby by himself will probably break out one of these games and have a 2 goal, 4 point effort against a weaker defensive opponent.

And that's the problem. In the past, KCD has torched lesser opponents in the regular season as well. So if the Pens are waiting for it to be lousy all regular season before they decide to never go back to it again, that will never happen. In the regular season, Crosby's just too good not to make that line "work".

It's the playoffs that things go south, and so I'd rather Johnston experiment with other combinations that *may* work in the playoffs, when we need production, instead of defaulting to one that puts up points in the regular season but is a proven playoff failure.

 

[ProgOg]

The problem is that, in the regular season, that line is going to have its share of big nights. Crosby by himself will probably break out one of these games and have a 2 goal, 4 point effort against a weaker defensive opponent.

And that's the problem. In the past, KCD has torched lesser opponents in the regular season as well. So if the Pens are waiting for it to be lousy all regular season before they decide to never go back to it again, that will never happen. In the regular season, Crosby's just too good not to make that line "work".

It's the playoffs that things go south, and so I'd rather Johnston experiment with other combinations that *may* work in the playoffs, when we need production, instead of defaulting to one that puts up points in the regular season but is a proven playoff failure.

I still think that it's important for Johnston to know what he has with the current roster at hand (and that includes a line that worked in the regular season, but didn't during the playoffs)- which probably won't be the same as the playoff roster.

If Johnston & Rutherfird look at the point production of that line, and not at the performance in the current system, and use that as justification to keep them together - then that is a bigger problem than Dupuis and Kunitz ond Crosby's wing.

Based on his comments, and his awareness of problems this team has had (even after big wins), I don't worry much about it.