Post-Game Talk: Pens 4, Canucks 0 - Kunitz Helps Sid Hit 999

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Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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Sheary is leading the NHL in 5v5 production playing mostly on Crosby's wing. It might be a little early to say Guentzel is a better fit after they connected on a single goal.

Agreed. Sheary worked really well with Sid. Guentzel seems like the kind of guy that can make it work with a variety of centers because he's such a smart player. If Geno would learn to pass him the puck, I'd like to see Guentz-Malkin-Rust

If/when we are healthy, it should be:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
HBK because Sully
Kunitz-Cullen-Wilson

I love the speed of Archie (and smarts and shot blocking of Kuhn), so I'd almost rather see Wilsin-Cullen-Archie, but Kunitz will have a spot. It's just the way it is.
 

ColePens

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Guenztel is extremely skilled on his backhand, so I'm not sure why it's a surprise he can play RW well.

Prior to the give-and-go goal, he made an extremely solid outlet pass on his backhand to Sid to gain zone entry. That outlet was a main part of getting offensive zone time.

The only thing I'll disagree with you is that NHLers definitely have a preference. Example - Iginla. So while an NHLer at time will say it doesn't matter, they definitely have a preference. Heck, some even like playing the offwing. It really just depends on what they feel comfortable with.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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I thought Malkin's line was very bad today. It's clear now that Wilson isn't top-6 player he's 4th liner. It's should also be very clear now that Hörnqvist and unskilled LW won't work. And for god sake Kunitz shouldn't be top-6 anymore

The second bolded sentence applies as easily to Wilson as it does Hornqvist. Each of these guys needs to play with a skilled winger on the other side. It's anything but "clear" what Wilson is at this point because of Sullivan's **** lines.
 

MrBurghundy

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It'd be a very successful line, but an argument against it is that it leaves our other lines lacking for talent on the wings, and renders a guy like Hornqvist - who's much better beside Sid than anywhere else - virtually a non-factor at ES.

I think that spreading Sheary, Guentzel, and Kessel out on 3 lines should be our main priority. It gives each center at least one skilled winger to work with, and we have no shortage of gritty, determined complementary wings to balance things out.

I can understand that argument. I guess. It's an option I'd like to see though. If only for my own enjoyment.
 

Empoleon8771

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Why not make Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel the top line? Guentzel hasn't shown that he can't play RW, so why not just replace Kunitz with Sheary and keep everything else the same?

I don't think talent on the wings would be a problem lower in the lineup. My only concern would be with Rust playing LW, I don't think the Pens will keep Guentzel on RW once Rust is back. Although I could see them running with:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Wilson-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Kunitz-Cullen-Rust
 

JTG

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I've never understood having to pigeonhole a winger to his natural side. You simply need to be more skilled on your backhand. There are way more advantages to playing your off-wing IMHO.

Some of the most skilled Pens ever played their off wings, including Jagr and Kovy. Lemieux played LW when he wasn't a pivot, Malkin plays RW when he slides to that position.

Arguably the best winger in the game, Tarasenko, plays his off-wing.

Guenztel is extremely skilled on his backhand, so I'm not sure why it's a surprise he can play RW well.

I always played my off-wing, but I wasn't playing in the NHL where I had a split second to make a decision. I liked being able to really lean into one timers, and just always felt more comfortable having more options to shoot at, because, let's face it, picking an opposite corner on your natural side takes a bomb of a shot. I can see why it would be off-putting, but I honestly thing Guentzel at this early stage in his career would benefit greatly getting acquainted to both sides. I think he is so good at both the passing and shooting facets of the game, that he will just morph into a different player. Last night, you can tell her was about a split second off. He wouldn't have seen the chances he did last night on the LW though. It's really a matter of him getting his hands a split second faster to turn those pucks over quicker.

It'd be a very successful line, but an argument against it is that it leaves our other lines lacking for talent on the wings, and renders a guy like Hornqvist - who's much better beside Sid than anywhere else - virtually a non-factor at ES.

I think that spreading Sheary, Guentzel, and Kessel out on 3 lines should be our main priority. It gives each center at least one skilled winger to work with, and we have no shortage of gritty, determined complementary wings to balance things out.

I generally agree with you. I personally like a lineup where you have fluidity. I do feel as though Hornqvist could do well on the 3rd line with Bonino though. Hagelin - Bonino - Hornqvist.

My one reservation about Sheary - Crosby - Guentzel is you have Sid (who sees the toughest matchups), and two wingers who are 175 pounds soaking wet.
 

JTG

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Why not make Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel the top line? Guentzel hasn't shown that he can't play RW, so why not just replace Kunitz with Sheary and keep everything else the same?

I don't think talent on the wings would be a problem lower in the lineup. My only concern would be with Rust playing LW, I don't think the Pens will keep Guentzel on RW once Rust is back. Although I could see them running with:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Wilson-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Kunitz-Cullen-Rust

I like those lines, but we would have to find a top 6 winger to be successful with them. Wilson is a 4th liner/extra. No business being in the top 6.
 

mpp9

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There are no set lines. Run what works at the time. Hornqvist can contribute not playing with Sid. Malkin doesn't need to play with Kessel. Sid can play with midgets as long as they can make plays and keep up with him.
 

wgknestrick

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Why not make Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel the top line? Guentzel hasn't shown that he can't play RW, so why not just replace Kunitz with Sheary and keep everything else the same?

I don't think talent on the wings would be a problem lower in the lineup. My only concern would be with Rust playing LW, I don't think the Pens will keep Guentzel on RW once Rust is back. Although I could see them running with:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Wilson-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Kunitz-Cullen-Rust

You should be burned at the stake for HBK. 3rd worst line in entire NHL at 5v5 GF% this year. You can expect that line to score 38% of the 5v5 goals while they are on the ice. Try harder. Craig Adams has been on more effective lines at 5v5 than HBK is this year.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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Friggin' ridiculous play by Malkin on that Kessel goal. One of the only players I can think of that I'm perfectly fine with trying something like that. Good to have that guy back and a big thumbs up to the team for seemingly making sure Malkin recovered the right way this time. The results were obvious... dude was flying all over the place. Uh... not a fan at all of his line, though. Pretty gross. Just put Kessel on his RW, already FFS. Or would that hurt superstar Bonino's feelings too much, or something?

I said weeks ago that Guentzel's game was extremely difficult to find too many holes in and I stick by that. Barring anything unforeseen, he's gonna be a really good player. He hasn't looked out of place wherever they've tried him and he's only gotten stronger and more impactful every game I've watched him. And such a smart player, too. That's the thing that maybe jumps out the most.
 

Empoleon8771

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You should be burned at the stake for HBK. 3rd worst line in entire NHL at 5v5 GF% this year. You can expect that line to score 38% of the 5v5 goals while they are on the ice. Try harder. Craig Adams has been on more effective lines at 5v5 than HBK is this year.

I don't want to keep HBK together, but that's just what I could see the Penguins running with. I'd rather see:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Wilson-Cullen-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Bonino-Rust
 

Shady Machine

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Why not make Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel the top line? Guentzel hasn't shown that he can't play RW, so why not just replace Kunitz with Sheary and keep everything else the same?

I don't think talent on the wings would be a problem lower in the lineup. My only concern would be with Rust playing LW, I don't think the Pens will keep Guentzel on RW once Rust is back. Although I could see them running with:

Sheary-Crosby-Guentzel
Wilson-Malkin-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Bonino-Kessel
Kunitz-Cullen-Rust

Other than Poor Geno, that's a dynamic line up.
 

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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You should be burned at the stake for HBK. 3rd worst line in entire NHL at 5v5 GF% this year. You can expect that line to score 38% of the 5v5 goals while they are on the ice. Try harder. Craig Adams has been on more effective lines at 5v5 than HBK is this year.

It's not his line, it's Sully's. It's beyond obvious to everyone now that Sully is sticking with Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel on different lines. Bones is our 3rd line center. Maybe put Rust on LW with them or something, but that's what Sully will be doing.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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Jan 29, 2004
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Prior to the give-and-go goal, he made an extremely solid outlet pass on his backhand to Sid to gain zone entry. That outlet was a main part of getting offensive zone time.

The only thing I'll disagree with you is that NHLers definitely have a preference. Example - Iginla. So while an NHLer at time will say it doesn't matter, they definitely have a preference. Heck, some even like playing the offwing. It really just depends on what they feel comfortable with.

Oh, I'm not even arguing guys have preferences, I'm just arguing that it shouldn't be a surprise that a skilled player can play his off wing well, and in fact prefer it. It seems like over the last few years there is a narrative around here that left handed guys need to be on LW and right handed guys need to be on RW... that is more of a coach's driven decision than players preferring to be played there.

When Guenztel was moved to RW in practice a number of people flipped out and I kind of rolled my eyes and figured they would see for themselves how well he can play RW, so why argue over it.

I suspect Guenztel is most comfortable as a pivot, but we aren't privy to that info or which side he prefers when he's out at wing. All we know is the org had a dearth of skilled LWs, so he has been playing that side since he came into the org last spring.

With Crosby apparently unhappy with Hornqvist on his RW, there is an opening now for Guenztel.

I always played my off-wing, but I wasn't playing in the NHL where I had a split second to make a decision. I liked being able to really lean into one timers, and just always felt more comfortable having more options to shoot at, because, let's face it, picking an opposite corner on your natural side takes a bomb of a shot. I can see why it would be off-putting, but I honestly thing Guentzel at this early stage in his career would benefit greatly getting acquainted to both sides. I think he is so good at both the passing and shooting facets of the game, that he will just morph into a different player. Last night, you can tell her was about a split second off. He wouldn't have seen the chances he did last night on the LW though. It's really a matter of him getting his hands a split second faster to turn those pucks over quicker.

I honestly hated my natural side because there were so many advantages to being on my off-wing.

We may have had a little more time at the levels we played to break the puck out, but highly skilled NHLers can handle that much like Jagr, Kovy, Malkin, Lemieux, etc could playing their off-wings.

Again every player is different though, but I think people need to understand that guys shouldn't be pigeonholed into a wing because of the hand they shoot with.

"Omigawdbbq Sullivan is playing Guenztel on RW - that fool done lost his mind!!"

Uh... ok...
 
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AjaxTelamon

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Not sure if it annoys anyone else, but watching Kunitz extend all of his shifts (48 seconds a shift last night, 19:34 TOI), and then pull off nonsense like not taking a stride past center ice when trying to get back on breakaways is slowly driving me insane.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just play Guentzel on his natural side and not sit Fehr?
 

Dipsy Doodle

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The problem with Guentzel playing RW on Sid's line is less about his adaptability and more about the fact he's being moved to accommodate Kunitz. The #1 line right now should clearly be Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist.
 

JTG

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Oh, I'm not even arguing guys have preferences, I'm just arguing that it shouldn't be a surprise that a skilled player can play his off wing well, and in fact prefer it. It seems like over the last few years there is a narrative around here that left handed guys need to be on LW and right handed guys need to be on RW... that is more of a coach's driven decision than players preferring to be played there.

When Guenztel was moved to RW in practice a number of people flipped out and I kind of rolled my eyes and figured they would see for themselves how well he can play RW, so why argue over it.

I suspect Guenztel is most comfortable as a pivot, but we aren't privy to that info or which side he prefers when he's out at wing. All we know is the org had a dearth of skilled LWs, so he has been playing that side since he came into the org last spring.

With Crosby apparently unhappy with Hornqvist on his RW, there is an opening now for Guenztel.



I honestly hated my natural side because there were so many advantages to being on my off-wing.

We may have had a little more time at the levels we played to break the puck out, but highly skilled NHLers can handle that much like Jagr, Kovy, Malkin, Lemieux, etc could playing their off-wings.

Again every player is different though, but I think people need to understand that guys shouldn't be pigeonholed into a wing because of the hand they shoot with.

"Omigawdbbq Sullivan is playing Guenztel on RW - that fool done lost his mind!!"

Uh... ok...

I personally never understood that with defensemen either. I always though having my stick to the center of the ice left me with more options. Yeah, so I have to handle a puck on my backhand every once in a while. Join the club.
 

JTG

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The problem with Guentzel playing RW on Sid's line is less about his adaptability and more about the fact he's being moved to accommodate Kunitz. The #1 line right now should clearly be Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist.

Well, for now. But it's really about making space for Sheary.
 

Shady Machine

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The problem with Guentzel playing RW on Sid's line is less about his adaptability and more about the fact he's being moved to accommodate Kunitz. The #1 line right now should clearly be Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist.

I'm not convinced that's true. Let's say they used Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist. Who does Geno play with?

Cullen-Geno-xxx

It's obvious that Sully wants Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel on 3 separate lines. Not sure how you effectively do that right now with Guentz and Horny with Sid.
 

DegenX

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Aug 14, 2011
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The problem with Guentzel playing RW on Sid's line is less about his adaptability and more about the fact he's being moved to accommodate Kunitz. The #1 line right now should clearly be Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist.

What if I said Sid loves Hornqvist's compete level and work ethic, but his lack of skill and Hockey IQ frustrates Crosby so much that he wants to try something different? Maybe Kunitz is just there as a place holder for Sheary and they're giving Jake time to transition to RW?

Of course, I could be totally out in left field with the sun in my eyes :laugh:
 

JTG

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I'm really not sure past this season I'd want to see Kessel on the 3rd line with any sort of regularity. I think the HBK experiment was sort of a flash in the pan, and both Hagelin and Bonino played out of their minds.

Bonino has really disappointed me this season.
 

66-30-33

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I'm really not sure past this season I'd want to see Kessel on the 3rd line with any sort of regularity. I think the HBK experiment was sort of a flash in the pan, and both Hagelin and Bonino played out of their minds.

Bonino has really disappointed me this season.

Yeah going forward perhaps our top 9 can be:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Guenztel-TRADE-Sprong

Should look for a good 3C good on faceoffs, fast, can contribute with the line that would gel with that line. Bribe Vegas to "steal" Fleury from us.
 

JTG

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If we are seriously trying to bring in Duchene, I'd flip Hagelin immediately, or include him in the deal.
 

AjaxTelamon

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I'm not convinced that's true. Let's say they used Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist. Who does Geno play with?

Cullen-Geno-xxx

It's obvious that Sully wants Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel on 3 separate lines. Not sure how you effectively do that right now with Guentz and Horny with Sid.

It sure seems like the staff (and Sid) wants PH with Geno. If Guentzel is the only other guy who works in that L1 RW slot, then I guess that's it.

Bonino playing poorly complicates the lines a lot.
 
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