Salary Cap: Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "Mandrake, do you recall what Clemenceau once said about hockey"

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Zirakzigil

Global Moderator
Jul 5, 2010
29,163
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Canada
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I don't know if they could swing it with Lindholm, but regardless of who coaches this team or who is moved, the Pens should find a solid two-way center like Lindholm to play with Malkin.

Ease the burden on Malkin by moving him to wing. It's time.

Yup. I thought it was time two years ago. It's staring you in the face now.

I'd be interested in Lindholm, Duclair from SJ, Kubalik from Ottawa and Lyubushkin from Anaheim as potential adds. Lindholm would be the only one who costs much.

I'd prefer Duclair or someone similar over someone as streaky as Kubalik, but Kubalik would be a fallback option.

Move out Rakell, Smith and POJ, either as part of a deal or separately for assets.

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Malkin-Lindholm-Duclair
Poulin-Eller-DOC
Nieto-Acciari-Puljujarvi
Carter

Pettersson-Letang
Lyubushkin-Karlsson
Graves-Ludvig
Ruhwedel

More than 2/3rds of the league goes through the motions every year.

And that's a good point - I think they think they can still do it. It's hard to look at the roster and think they can't make a little noise. It's just that...it doesn't happen for them on some nights.


There's a balance I think they need to maintain and EK is an interesting addition to the team. They can't run and gun anymore and they don't have the legs to support ultra-aggressive forechecks. They get eaten alive give up odd man rushes like crazy. So they opt for a passive forecheck and NZ support system which, in my estimation, has been the best they've looked in awhile. But what comes with that is a complete neutering of high-end offensive talent from the likes of EK.

At the end of the day, he's the one on the ice with the puck. If he thinks a rush up the ice is the best play, he could do it. Take your licks afterwards if you botch it but the decision is ultimately his.

We will trade Jake to Canucks for a 1st+ and trade our 1st in 2024 or 2025 (depends on conditions of Karlsson trade) and Canucks 1st plus Carter and whatever else for Kaprizov. :sarcasm:

It would be absurd if we didn't give SJS the pick this year.
Guarantee our 2025 1st has way higher value anyway, even in a trade, vs. the 14th overall.

If we finish below 10th they don’t get it anyway, or can we give them say 9th or 8th overall? Top 10 protected.

I'll respect the optimism. I'm having a hard time getting there mentally, when watching this team. So many holes.
Beating Carolina, NYR or Boston 4 outta 7 seems like a mountainous task.

No disagreement there. It's just the fact the Flyers and Caps are also in the mix, which irks me.

I hate how relatively beatable the East is, yet we can't do anything with it.

Yeah, I dunno if next year's pick is gonna be like a top-5 or anything but this team's not going to be getting better. They've been on a steady decline for more than half a decade and that ain't changing. :laugh:

I don't think you can give it

A "protected" pick just means there's a condition on the pick that if it ends up being in a certain slot, that pick is not traded. For example, if a first round pick is Top 10 Protected, it means that if the pick ends up being in the Top 10, that pick isn't traded, and instead a different pick is traded. The most common example would be that the first round pick the following year is traded instead.

Jake to Vancouver rumors are very obvious given JR/Allvin/Sarge/Tocchet/Yeo/Boeser/Blueger/Lafferty/Cole as ties to the Pens for rumors being an easy target...

But a lot are saying "that young russian player" and it's like, Podkolzin? While that would be fine (I'd want another forward with him and a pick), the assumption is Sullivan would even use that player in a position to succeed. Like a Russian lad that would be better to start with Geno to feel comfortable would likely have Sullivan forcing him to Sid's line instead.

True, but they also were a little smarter than us when it came time to manage their assets going forward. They have drafted a lot more than us in the past 5 years for example while we were still giving away 2nd round picks for Granlunds of the world

I have no issues with those moves, everything done during the trade deadline, draft or summer though shouldn't cost us any assets. That's what I would do. We are in no position to trade any picks or prospects while trying to stock up for 2-3 years. Sign UFA players, even if it's for 1 season and then flip them for more assets
 

Sideline

Registered User
May 23, 2004
11,110
2,831
Honest question: do people like watching this team play as it is currently set up?

I am not talking about rooting for the team. I mean, do people actually like watching this style of hockey? If it was any other team playing like we play, would you still watch the game?
No and for context I am a Patriots fan that just watched every game of that trash season. I will watch my favorite team lose if they look like they want to win.

This Penguins team doesn't play fast or with edge. They aren't disciplined enough to win boring games.

I put them on TV and then inevitably start reading or just go to bed early.
 

KrisLetAngry

MrJukeBoy
Dec 20, 2013
18,099
4,264
Saskatchewan
Honest question: do people like watching this team play as it is currently set up?

I am not talking about rooting for the team. I mean, do people actually like watching this style of hockey? If it was any other team playing like we play, would you still watch the game?
Currently back ground noise while gaming.

Why should I focus when they can't do a proper pass during a delayed penalty.
 

HandshakeLine

A real jerk thing
Nov 9, 2005
47,996
31,976
Praha, CZ
No and for context I am a Patriots fan that just watched every game of that trash season. I will watch my favorite team lose if they look like they want to win.

This Penguins team doesn't play fast or with edge. They aren't disciplined enough to win boring games.

I put them on TV and then inevitably start reading or just go to bed early.
Yeah, I'm not bagging on people watching the games (I tune in at least a bit for each one, though I'm not staying up until 2:30 to watch them lose, lol), I'm just puzzled that some people seem to forget that the purpose of watching games is supposed to be entertainment.

Currently back ground noise while gaming.

Why should I focus when they can't do a proper pass during a delayed penalty.
I can't even do that because the broadcast team is so grating. :laugh:
 

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,635
3,281
Montreal
Honest question: do people like watching this team play as it is currently set up?

I am not talking about rooting for the team. I mean, do people actually like watching this style of hockey? If it was any other team playing like we play, would you still watch the game?
No, I don't like it, not one bit! I've been asking for a coaching change for a few years now, I knew we were cooked after that eliminating against the Islanders years back. This team is no fun to watch and they lack balls!

Now, it's 2 seasons I'm hoping for somewhat of a retool that yes unfortunately needs to gut the roster a little. We aren't set up to win now and we aren't set up to be good going forward either and that's what scaring me even more. Too many question marks that I'm sure not even Dubas has some green lights from FSG
 

Josey Wales

Registered User
May 16, 2022
3,557
1,331
Currently back ground noise while gaming.

Why should I focus when they can't do a proper pass during a delayed penalty.
Genius Letang should know better than pass it back towards an open net

No, I don't like it, not one bit! I've been asking for a coaching change for a few years now, I knew we were cooked after that eliminating against the Islanders years back. This team is no fun to watch and they lack balls!

Now, it's 2 seasons I'm hoping for somewhat of a retool that yes unfortunately needs to gut the roster a little. We aren't set up to win now and we aren't set up to be good going forward either and that's what scaring me even more. Too many question marks that I'm sure not even Dubas has some green lights from FSG
SOOOOOO the gave gave Dubas a 7 year 42 Million $ deal, But he is not allowed to fire Sullivan if he wants to? GOT IT :help:
 

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,635
3,281
Montreal
Genius Letang should know better than pass it back towards an open net


SOOOOOO the gave gave Dubas a 7 year 42 Million $ deal, But he is not allowed to fire Sullivan if he wants to? GOT IT :help:
He had a 3 year contract extension that was given to him by Hextall and that was kicking in this season. I'm sure Dubas discussed this before taking the job, but you have to believe that Dubas was probably told and begged by FSG to at least keep MS the entire season or even until next year before making a move. I mean he did fire Mike Babcock, I don't think the guy cares much about MS personally.

If he does decide to blow things up, maybe he isn't much stressed about firing MS right away and will do it in the off season.
 
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chethejet

Registered User
Feb 4, 2012
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I am not sure Dubas was all in this year with a tight cap, Pretty sure missing the playoffs two years in a row will change the Sullivan narrative in bean town. Dubas has room here and will be far better off making the changes and adds to the mix. As Pens get behind the 5 ball, Jake has to be moved for value. Malkin will be here contractually until the end of next year. Same with Rust. FSG thought the Pens could be good with the core for 3 years and were wrong. Age just goes faster and faster. Letang is not killing them and Sid is still a top player. Start the process of adding younger guys with size and compete and a coach who will get the Pens playing with more purpose.
 

pistolpete11

Registered User
Apr 27, 2013
11,594
10,402
Honest question: do people like watching this team play as it is currently set up?

I am not talking about rooting for the team. I mean, do people actually like watching this style of hockey? If it was any other team playing like we play, would you still watch the game?
I'd rather win 2-1 than lose 6-5, if that's what you're asking.

Sports with nothing on the line does nothing for me and watching Sid, Geno, and Letang wallow in mediocrity (or worse) is just sad to me.

Unfortunately, they're not doing enough of either.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,409
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Been background noise for years. I stopped really giving a f*** when Mario allowed JR and Sully to survive the embarrassment that was the play-in. The organization made it clear that it would rather take the lamest f***ing path on through the end of Sid's career rather than rock the boat and try to get one more run outta things.

All I want out of the season is for the team to trade Jake at the deadline. f*** eeking into the playoffs as a WC just to get bounced because of [insert convenient excuse that ignores coaching and roster composition here] yet again. Era's been over whether people want to accept it or not.
 

Malkinstheman

Registered User
Aug 12, 2012
9,356
8,236
Haven't been watching the Pens much since like Feb 2023. It seems that every time I turn on the game, the Pens proceed to blow the lead or give up 2 goals immediately. Such a chore watching them play
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,409
22,995
My issue isn't that they're losing. I've been a Bills fan my entire life, I'm perfectly fine watching a losing team. :laugh: My issue is that they're losing with no goal in sight, no purpose. They're just happy as pigs in shit to remain this unlikable, stagnant, rotting franchise because they're too scared to turn the page. You're already f***ing losers--be losers with a goddamn purpose. Sell assets, stockpile picks, revamp the scouting depts (pro and amateur), nuke the coaching staff. Be prepared to go through the process of trying to build a legit contender again some time in the next decade. All they're doing by putting off the inevitable is just turning these last few years (and however long Sid wants to play until) into rebuild years minus the top tier prospects coming into the system.
 
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SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
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I am not sure Dubas was all in this year with a tight cap, Pretty sure missing the playoffs two years in a row will change the Sullivan narrative in bean town. Dubas has room here and will be far better off making the changes and adds to the mix. As Pens get behind the 5 ball, Jake has to be moved for value. Malkin will be here contractually until the end of next year. Same with Rust. FSG thought the Pens could be good with the core for 3 years and were wrong. Age just goes faster and faster. Letang is not killing them and Sid is still a top player. Start the process of adding younger guys with size and compete and a coach who will get the Pens playing with more purpose.
I think Dubas did his best with the limited cap he had. The Petry/Granlund/Rutta swap to EK was still a good move in my opinion because they wouldn't be doing any better with them than with EK. That said, I think that was a move that still suggests they were "in". The tough part is, he wasn't handed the best of cap situations. We've never had major cap worries - at least not like other teams but this offseason was one where we felt it a bit due to the errors of Hextall and the AGM. I do applaud Dubas for helping rectify it as best he could.

The problem isn't Sid, Geno, or Letang. I think we can look at them and suggest they have performed as well as they always have. Yeah, Letang has a brain fart every now and then. Yeah, Geno goes through a slump but these are things we've dealt with whether or not we're having a winning or losing season. The primary factors leading to our losing season typically come down to two things:
1. Goaltending on any given night. Jarry and Neds have both won us games and 100% lost us games. With plenty of games being in the middle where they didn't win or lose for us. The only thing consistent about them is their inconsistency. It fluctuates game to game on whether or not they are a problem and that's a problem.
2. They don't give the 60 minute effort. We've seen that when they play the full 60 min, they can beat damn near anyone. They throttled Seattle and make them their bitch and then turn around a drop a massive turd and lose a game in a single period against Vegas. They are not good enough to let up off the gas for any amount of time. While this is mostly on the players, I think the underlying issue is 100% coaching. There is a staleness about this team that is so similar to 2014 Bylsma and 2015 Johnston.

But you're right in that they need to "start the process" and what I think that looks like is adding the young kids like Pickering and Yager which comes with NEVER giving up for 1st and 2nd unless its a young impact player coming back and you make your roster changes through FA and trades. Need a new top 6 wing? Trade Smith or sign one in FA. Gone are the days of sending out the 1st for Bertuzzi.

This all comes with an adjustment in expectations as well. We aren't a "cup or bust" team anymore. We need to shift to a "verge of playoffs" and then just hope we can make some noise in the playoffs to give Sid/Geno a good send off. I'm less worried about Letang and Karlsson because quite honestly, I don't think they finish their careers here. Not sure what EK does but I think Letang ends up in Montreal the last year or two of his deal. Like a TDL deal with one extra year on his contract. And I'm willing to get that comes regardless of Sid or Geno being on the team. I think Sid extends out and plays to 40. My hope is that by then, his expectations have shifted or we've been able to add to the roster to compete. Maybe like what Boston did. Try to get Sid his 4th Cup as a 40yo where he's a high-end complementary piece and the rest of the roster is carrying the play ala Pasta in Boston.
 
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Pens1566

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
18,410
7,249
WV
Honest question: do people like watching this team play as it is currently set up?

I am not talking about rooting for the team. I mean, do people actually like watching this style of hockey? If it was any other team playing like we play, would you still watch the game?

No. They're no longer "make time to watch when the game is on" viewing. It's boring, uninspiring, and almost never exciting or entertaining.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
34,285
28,264
lol people still actually sit down and watch this dreck? Like... entire games?

Why? Pick up an instrument. Read a book. Hell fold your socks that's more entertaining.
 
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PensPlz

Registered User
Dec 23, 2009
11,349
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Pittsburgh
Can you imagine if the Mike Sullivan lost to the Predators in SCF, and then continues this team's current trend of first round exits and missing the playoffs entirely for 10 more years. And then at the end of that 10 years, actually gets an extension after yet another first round exit...

Well, then you would Mike Tomlin and the Steelers.

So. I guess as bad as things are for the Penguins right now it can get worse. The precedent has been set for what's acceptable in this town. And considering Sullivan is on his 3rd GM then I have no reason to believe that he's going anywhere. It's always someone else's fault or some other extenuating circumstance. It's just a Pittsburgh thing now. We double down on our coaches, do the same thing over and over, and act shocked when we get the same results. But that's ok, because next year it will be different! Next year! Right, Buckos fans?

I'm really souring on Pittsburgh sports. Like. Beyond souring. Like resentment and spite.
 

Darren McCord

Registered User
Dec 15, 2015
9,466
7,772
I think the underlying issue is 100% coaching. There is a staleness about this team that is so similar to 2014 Bylsma and 2015 Johnston

I honestly think Sully might be worse than Bylsma at this point. He literal is bringing nothing to the team and just letting it fall apart. His only answer is guys like Jarkins and White and Shea.

Poulin was on a like a 5 game goal scoring streak in the AHL and they recall freaking White. Jarkins has like 4 points and yet he gets more minutes than Puustinen and so does White. Corey Andonovski is having a better AHL season then White. White sucks.

Also Smith leads WBS in points yet cant get a sniff over nobodies like Shea

I’m slowly coming around to the realization that Mike Sullivan is going to potentially outlast Sidney Crosby in Pittsburgh.

thats the most depressing but true thing I have read today.
 
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molon labe

Registered User
Jul 13, 2016
4,670
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lol people still actually sit down and watching this dreck? Like... entire games?

Why? Pick up an instrument. Read a book. Hell fold your socks that's more entertaining.

I'm admittedly watching for Sid highlights at this point - at least 80% of the time. My heart still wants to get going and to feel out a win - but I know it's unlikely, and - if likely - losses are to follow (as well as everyone else in the division still winning). Last night I truly felt stupid watching the game.


Trading partners?
- Calgary for Huberdeau / Kadri
- Anaheim
- Seattle
- St Louis

- Left field: Leafs, Vegas, Nashville
 
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