Confirmed with Link: Penguins re-sign Justin Schultz to a 1-year deal ($1.4MM AAV)

[Ogrezilla]

But defenders know this and just sit on Geno. Letang usually has a lot of space. So Geno moves it to Letang and is waiting for that pass back. When it's not in his wheelhouse, Geno has to reload and do it again.

If they keep the same setup, I'd like to see the puck QB'd on the left half wall more often with Kessel. He can skate the puck up top, switch with Letang, and then hit Geno for that one time pass if it's there.

I really want to see a lot more movement on the PP. The left half wall was a wasteland for years on the Pens PP, but it doesn't have to be so anymore. This would also benefit Letang, as he can make more plays when he's skating with the puck.

I absolutely agree. We are way too stationary. We set up our powerplay in a way that doesn't play to Sid's, Kessel's, or Letang's strengths. Those guys need to be moving. We have Letang playing a role that minimizes his greatest strength. We are set up with Letang and Kessel both standing still, and Kessel being set up for one timers. That just doesn't make any sense. That's a coaching problem, not a Letang or Kessel problem imo.

And despite all of that, Letang still managed to lead our team in powerplay scoring, tie for 2nd for D in the league, and tie for 7th for all players in the league. While missing 11 games. Would I like Letang to be better on the powerplay? Sure. I'd like Sid and Geno to be better on the powerplay too. My issue is with people calling him bad on the powerplay. Its just blatantly incorrect. Its every bit as wrong as the people on the main board who say he's bad defensively.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I think rotating between Letang and Malkin as the PPQB should be the way to go. And if we are going to rotate them, we might as well rotate everybody except Hornqvist, since Malkin and Letang don't have the same handedness. So if Letang is on the QB position, everybody except Hornqvist could be rotating clockwise one step. That would make Malkin our QB, and we have Letang and Crosby along the boards for one timers with Kessel in the slot. If they want Letang back as the QB they just move a step counterclockwise. I guess the movement is kinda limited in a way, but it's still movement. If they want to I guess Malkin and Crosby can rotate between eachother too.

 

[Shady Machine]

I absolutely agree. We are way too stationary. We set up our powerplay in a way that doesn't play to Sid's, Kessel's, or Letang's strengths. Those guys need to be moving. We have Letang playing a role that minimizes his greatest strength. We are set up with Letang and Kessel both standing still, and Kessel being set up for one timers. That just doesn't make any sense. That's a coaching problem, not a Letang or Kessel problem imo.

And despite all of that, Letang still managed to lead our team in powerplay scoring, tie for 2nd for D in the league, and tie for 7th for all players in the league. While missing 11 games. Would I like Letang to be better on the powerplay? Sure. I'd like Sid and Geno to be better on the powerplay too. My issue is with people calling him bad on the powerplay. Its just blatantly incorrect. Its every bit as wrong as the people on the main board who say he's bad defensively.

Yeah that's fair. He just frustrates us because 1.He isn't Gonchar like or a typical PP QB that controls the play and 2.He makes some bizarre boneheaded decisions from time to time.

For me personally, it drives me insane that he can't consistently make a 1 timer pass in Geno's wheelhouse. Part of that is being a Malkin biased fan though. I'm always happy when the Pens score, but I can't pretend like I don't get a little extra pumped when Geno hammers home a 1 timer on the PP. Watching Geno have to stop the puck and pass it back is annoying.

That said, he also does things that few others can do. His skating keeps tons of plays alive that would be out of the zone of Schultz or Pouliot were in his position. He also allows our players to be more aggressive on the PP (at least in theory) because his skating breaks up SH chances.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah that's fair. He just frustrates us because 1.He isn't Gonchar like or a typical PP QB that controls the play and 2.He makes some bizarre boneheaded decisions from time to time.

For me personally, it drives me insane that he can't consistently make a 1 timer pass in Geno's wheelhouse. Part of that is being a Malkin biased fan though. I'm always happy when the Pens score, but I can't pretend like I don't get a little extra pumped when Geno hammers home a 1 timer on the PP. Watching Geno have to stop the puck and pass it back is annoying.

That said, he also does things that few others can do. His skating keeps tons of plays alive that would be out of the zone of Schultz or Pouliot were in his position. He also allows our players to be more aggressive on the PP (at least in theory) because his skating breaks up SH chances.

Yeah, I don't really disagree. He has issues. But despite them, he is still one of the best PP D-men in the league.

And as far as boneheaded plays go, I don't see that being limited to Letang. Between forced passes through the box and passing up shots, boneheaded plays are a full team effort

 

[AjaxTelamon]

As stifling as it may be to the "creativity" we're used to seeing on powerplays, they ought to just have a few set plays they run, like Letang taking the puck below the goal line like he did in Game 6 SCF, Kessel taking the puck to the net (if he's got room), PH floating up to the slot and Sid or Geno taking the opposite post for a Kessel setup, etc.

Sure teams pick up on this stuff, but anything to make defenders think out there. And those Kessel far post passes to Sid and Geno are money if they get through. Way better than the typical backhand through the box in terms of risk/reward.

 

[pistolpete11]

As stifling as it may be to the "creativity" we're used to seeing on powerplays, they ought to just have a few set plays they run, like Letang taking the puck below the goal line like he did in Game 6 SCF, Kessel taking the puck to the net (if he's got room), PH floating up to the slot and Sid or Geno taking the opposite post for a Kessel setup, etc.

Sure teams pick up on this stuff, but anything to make defenders think out there. And those Kessel far post passes to Sid and Geno are money if they get through. Way better than the typical backhand through the box in terms of risk/reward.

I'd like to see them establish Malkin's one-timer. It's not Ovechkin-like, but Malkin's one-timer can be deadly and IMO the single best weapon they have on the PP. Once they establish that as a threat, teams will probably start to cheat towards Malkin or Letang which will free up other plays for the other guys like Kessel backdoor to Sid. If not, be selfish and just keep hammering those one-timers Geno.

....of course that all depends on Letang being able to make a pass to Malkin.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd like to see them establish Malkin's one-timer. It's not Ovechkin-like, but Malkin's one-timer can be deadly and IMO the single best weapon they have on the PP. Once they establish that as a threat, teams will probably start to cheat towards Malkin or Letang which will free up other plays for the other guys like Kessel backdoor to Sid. If not, be selfish and just keep hammering those one-timers Geno.

....of course that all depends on Letang being able to make a pass to Malkin.

Also depends on Geno not having his yearly upper body injury.

 

[Riptide]

It is absolutely insane to me that people think that Justin Schultz can replace Kris Letang in any position.

So looking at Schultz and Letang, do you really think that Letang is a better PPQB then Schultz? Overall Letang is a much better player - offensively and defensively... but solely on the PP? If Letang didn't have the status he does on the team, and PP TOI was based on how one actually does, he wouldn't be anchored there like he has been.

 

[Ogrezilla]

So looking at Schultz and Letang, do you really think that Letang is a better PPQB then Schultz? Overall Letang is a much better player - offensively and defensively... but solely on the PP? If Letang didn't have the status he does on the team, and PP TOI was based on how one actually does, he wouldn't be anchored there like he has been.

What Letang actually does on the PP is finish 2nd for D in PP scoring and 7th for all players in PP scoring. Schultz was playing with some very talented players on EDM's PP, and he wasn't anywhere near Letang's level. Can he do it here? Maybe, I guess. But he has never even been close to as effective as Letang has been on the PP.

Just for comparison, since Schultz entered the league, he has 47 PPP in 266 games compared to Letang's 76 in 212. That's .18 per game for Schultz vs .36 per game for Letang. Both guys were the top PP D-man for their team. Both guys had very talented forwards with them. One of them doubled the other's production. Hell, let's go back for Letang's whole career. Letang has .25 per game even when you include the 3 years he was behind Gonchar.

Schultz playing better than Letang on the powerplay isn't impossible, but it would be an entirely new level for him that he has never played even close to before.

 

[Gurglesons]

So looking at Schultz and Letang, do you really think that Letang is a better PPQB then Schultz? Overall Letang is a much better player - offensively and defensively... but solely on the PP? If Letang didn't have the status he does on the team, and PP TOI was based on how one actually does, he wouldn't be anchored there like he has been.

I think the numbers speak for themselves. Schultz was playing with a lot of very talented forwards in Edmonton and didn't really put up anywhere close to what Letang put up. Not to mention Letang has done it while Malkin and Crosby have both been down with injuries.

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

Been on the Outernet and just saw this, that's a ****ing solid deal right there. Like it.

 

[Return of the Paek]

Just for comparison, since Schultz entered the league, he has 47 PPP in 266 games compared to Letang's 76 in 212.

How many PPs did each team have over that span? Also, what is the total PP TOI for each player over that time frame? I'm sure your point still holds, but I wouldn't mind digging a little deeper...

 

[wgknestrick]

What Letang actually does on the PP is finish 2nd for D in PP scoring and 7th for all players in PP scoring. Schultz was playing with some very talented players on EDM's PP, and he wasn't anywhere near Letang's level. Can he do it here? Maybe, I guess. But he has never even been close to as effective as Letang has been on the PP.

Just for comparison, since Schultz entered the league, he has 47 PPP in 266 games compared to Letang's 76 in 212. That's .18 per game for Schultz vs .36 per game for Letang. Both guys were the top PP D-man for their team. Both guys had very talented forwards with them. One of them doubled the other's production. Hell, let's go back for Letang's whole career. Letang has .25 per game even when you include the 3 years he was behind Gonchar.

Schultz playing better than Letang on the powerplay isn't impossible, but it would be an entirely new level for him that he has never played even close to before.

I agree with everything you state, but please show production (especially PP) as pts/60min. It removes a ton of team noise and adds validity to your data. PP is a small and highly variable part of the game. 2014/2015 PIT had 254 PP opportunities vs EDM's 232. Also Letang and Schultz average different PP minutes per game based on coaching. There is still #1PP vs #2PP, productivity delta, but that isn't significant enough to explain the huge difference below:

2015/2016 5v4
Letang 5.31 pts/60
Schultz 3.65 pts/60

Last 3 years 5v4
Letang 5.02 pts/60
Schultz 2.78 pts/60

3 year 5v4 Team GF/60

Letang 7.6 team goals for/60min
Schultz 5.3 team goals for/60min

It's not even a close call, and Schultz is still behind Daley in production too.

To all others:
Stop asking for Letang's head on the PP, you may get what you ask for....and not like it at all. Letang is easily a top 10 PP QB in production, and we don't seem to have any of the top 9 players above him on this roster. Not my opinion, just stating facts.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I'll be honest, I hate per 60 stats. They are fine for comparing guys with similar ice time per game to account for missed games, but they are garbage for comparing guys who play different ice time per game. They completely ignore fatigue and competition. Per 60 stats almost always get worse as a player gets more ice time per game. It's simply harder to be effective for 20 minutes a night than for 12 or 15. A third liner with a slightly higher points/60 than a first liner on his team likely isn't a better point producer than the first liner.

I remember an argument here someone said tyler kennedy was one of the better assist guys in the league due to a high assists per 60. This was used to show his time on ice should be increased. sadly, I showed that his games missed due to injury per 60 min would actually keep his production at roughly the same level with an increase in ice time. So please be careful about using per 60 stats, as they take validity away from your data when misused.

That said, powerplays are a situation where they probably are pretty accurate. Competition likely doesn't change much, and fatigue is less of a factor with a man advantage.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I'll be honest, I hate per 60 stats. They are fine for comparing guys with similar ice time per game to account for missed games, but they are garbage for comparing guys who play different ice time per game. They completely ignore fatigue and competition. Per 60 stats almost always get worse as a player gets more ice time per game. It's simply harder to be effective for 20 minutes a night than for 12 or 15. A third liner with a slightly higher points/60 than a first liner on his team likely isn't a better point producer than the first liner.

I remember an argument here someone said tyler kennedy was one of the better assist guys in the league due to a high assists per 60. This was used to show his time on ice should be increased. sadly, I showed that his games missed due to injury per 60 min would actually keep his production at roughly the same level with an increase in ice time. So please be careful about using per 60 stats, as they take validity away from your data when misused.

That said, powerplays are a situation where they probably are pretty accurate. Competition likely doesn't change much, and fatigue is less of a factor with a man advantage.

Well if we would take fatigue and competition into account, It just proves the point even more that replacing Letang with Schultz on the PP is not a good idea. But point taken.

 

[socko]

Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, and Letang all need to be on the PP1. The last guy is debatable. Probably someone who can cover defensively for Letang is the best bet.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, and Letang all need to be on the PP1. The last guy is debatable. Probably someone who can cover defensively for Letang is the best bet.

Hornqvist is incredibly obvious as the 5th guy. More than Kessel or the 2nd of Sid or Geno, honestly.

 

[Asuna]

Hornqvist is incredibly obvious as the 5th guy. More than Kessel or the 2nd of Sid or Geno, honestly.

You misspelled Kunitz.

 

[Bryan17]

If you had two equal players, one on the first PP unit and one on the second unit, I'd expect the player on the first unit to have much higher Points/60. Reasons:

-1st PP almost always starts with offensive zone faceoff while 2nd unit frequently comes in while on the fly.
-If 1st PP wins first faceoff they're already set up in scoring position.
-The player on first PP is, by definition, already playing with the 4 other players the coach believes are his best PP players.
-While I don't think all PP's include a change in momentum, some do. In these cases the second unit is more likely to get on the ice with momentum against them than with them.
-The second PP unit is more likely to be on the ice near the end of an unsuccessful PP and teams play more conservatively in the last 5-10 seconds of a PP to avoid a turnover that leads to a breakaway by the player coming out of the penalty box.

 

[Ogrezilla]

If you had two equal players, one on the first PP unit and one on the second unit, I'd expect the player on the first unit to have much higher Points/60. Reasons:

-1st PP almost always starts with offensive zone faceoff while 2nd unit frequently comes in while on the fly.
-If 1st PP wins first faceoff they're already set up in scoring position.
-The player on first PP is, by definition, already playing with the 4 other players the coach believes are his best PP players.
-While I don't think all PP's include a change in momentum, some do. In these cases the second unit is more likely to get on the ice with momentum against them than with them.
-The second PP unit is more likely to be on the ice near the end of an unsuccessful PP and teams play more conservatively in the last 5-10 seconds of a PP to avoid a turnover that leads to a breakaway by the player coming out of the penalty box.

that's true. But comparing Schultz's stats with EDM and Letang's stats with PIT, both are 1st unit. But yeah, when comparing someone with double the PP ice time, per 60 stats are just as meaningless for the PP as ES.

You misspelled Kunitz.

I loathe you.

Well if we would take fatigue and competition into account, It just proves the point even more that replacing Letang with Schultz on the PP is not a good idea. But point taken.

Yes, I agree. My points/60 rant had nothing to do with Letang and Schultz. Though it does further support the side I am already advocating.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

You misspelled Kunitz.

The King of the PP.

 

[Asuna]

The King of the PP.

i lol'd