Penguins Off-Season Thread: You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, you’ll hurl

[Peat]

I'll be honest, I didn't see a lick of difference between Toronto's Ceci and our Ceci. Living in the Toronto viewing area, I've caught maybe 90% of their games. He looked pretty much the same player in those viewings as he did in my viewings of the Pens last season. Same "strengths" and same flaws in his game.

I think if the analytics point to him doing things better/worse as a Leaf than he did as a Pen, that seems to be a case of looking at the charts and then trying to draw conclusions after the fact as to why his analytics looked the way they did for either team, rather than basing it on what he actually did on the ice for either team.

I also think the same applies to Seth Jones. Not to hide behind an appeal to authority, but I just don't think he'd be as well thought of by coaches/GMs/hockey analysts if his fatal flaw was as bad as the analytics suggest he is. I get that coaches/GMs aren't infallible. We've seen enough of it with Pittsburgh and some of their decisions for me not to make that argument. But at the same time, I don't think they're *that* dumb that if he's as bad as his analytics suggest, they'd still keep playing him like a 1D.

Instead, I'd say there's a middle ground where if anyone thinks he's an ELITE #1D, the analytics probably point out that he's got flaws that probably knock him down to closer to a low-end #1D instead. If a player "looks" like a top line player, but has iffy analytics, then maybe he's not quite AS good as you think. But I don't think analytics should be used to say that a player that the eye test says is a top line/top pairing player is actually a 4th liner/#6 defenseman.

Well if you didn't see anything between Toronto's Ceci and ours, then fair enough. Maybe he was propped up.

But on Jones... I am mostly of the opinion that NHL pro talent evaluators aren't dumb, barring the very obvious exceptions. However, if there is a collective flaw in their evaluations, it's their tendency to fall in love with big athletic skillful guys regardless of whether they actually work. JJ. Ristolainen. Seth Jones? I mean, he's getting paid like an elite 1D. Even if we go with your middle ground, there's clearly still some overrating in some quarters. We'll see how he goes next season because last season had abnormally bad results. But it's quite possible that pretty soon he's a sheltered 2nd pairing guy.

The replacement player stuff needs to be able to better measure what quality of competition means. But, well, it's still a canary down the coalmine. It's saying something is badly wrong with Jones' game, and people have found it.

 

[dogthateats]

 

[dogthateats]

 

[Gurglesons]

Sam Morin had another significant knee injury. Imagine that is it for the kid.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I actually love the addition of Boyle in theory because he seems like the exact kind of player that cup winners have in the lower parts of their lineups. My only concern with him is that he literally didn't play last year. I hope he still has enough in the tank to lock down a spot, especially because it means that Lafferty would likely f*** off if Boyle made the team, but I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I actually love the addition of Boyle in theory because he seems like the exact kind of player that cup winners have in the lower parts of their lineups. My only concern with him is that he literally didn't play last year. I hope he still has enough in the tank to lock down a spot, especially because it means that Lafferty would likely f*** off if Boyle made the team, but I'm not getting my hopes up too much.

I think even without any action last season Boyle should make a good stopgap until the team can get healthier. Whatever that is.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't really see the point of Boyle. I imagine DOC playing 10 games in the NHL at C would be a better usage of developing our talent.

Boyle is basically Jankowski 2.0. But he is as said above 36 and hasn't played hockey in a year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't really see the point of Boyle. I imagine DOC playing 10 games in the NHL at C would be a better usage of developing our talent.

Boyle is basically Jankowski 2.0. But he is as said above 36 and hasn't played hockey in a year.

Hey... that's usually my line!

I don't think overmuch of this team's young (theoretically) NHL-ready players but I'd be fine with that too since it's a short term solution.

I just don't see the harm in having a cheap backup plan that has played a lot of NHL games. If he can be beat out by the younger crew then great. I'm continuously assured Sullivan doesn't preference vets so it shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hey... that's usually my line!

I don't think overmuch of this team's young (theoretically) NHL-ready players but I'd be fine with that too since it's a short term solution.

I just don't see the harm in having a cheap backup plan that has played a lot of NHL games. If he can be beat out by the younger crew then great. I'm continuously assured Sullivan doesn't preference vets so it shouldn't be a problem.

Sullivan does prefer vets, but if Boyle fails he will be replaced. The issue being he'll likely get 10 - 15 games to prove himself which I think is not really that cool considering how good DOC was in the AHL last year at center.

I also question having Boyle and potentially Hallander on the same line given their perceived skating issues.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan does prefer vets, but if Boyle fails he will be replaced. The issue being he'll likely get 10 - 15 games to prove himself which I think is not really that cool considering how good DOC was in the AHL last year at center.

I also question having Boyle and potentially Hallander on the same line given their perceived skating issues.

But... I've been repeatedly corrected on this issue insisting that Sullivan is different. Something something Marino? No?

Certainly people wouldn't argue from a place of dishonestly simply to win an imaginary point. That's just silly!

 

[Gurglesons]

But... I've been repeatedly corrected on this issue insisting that Sullivan is different. Something something Marino? No?

I mean, if one of the players proves out of camp they deserve to be the 4C, I think Sully will play them there.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean, if one of the players proves out of camp they deserve to be the 4C, I think Sully will play them there.

Yeah... Tankov. Clearly.

And from there... the world!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't really see the point of Boyle. I imagine DOC playing 10 games in the NHL at C would be a better usage of developing our talent.

Boyle is basically Jankowski 2.0. But he is as said above 36 and hasn't played hockey in a year.

I know people hated Jankowski here, but I don't really see much of an issue with this as purely a depth player.

Same deal with Sceviour. I don't want him as a regular, but I find it hard to complain about him being an extra for you. Boyle would likely be pushing Lafferty or Angello off the NHL team if I had to guess.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know people hated Jankowski here, but I don't really see much of an issue with this as purely a depth player.

Same deal with Sceviour. I don't want him as a regular, but I find it hard to complain about him being an extra for you.

Sometimes just throwing warm cheap bodies at the roster in the regular season really isn't such a huge deal.

...provided these areas of need are actually addressed by the playoffs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sometimes just throwing warm cheap bodies at the roster in the regular season really isn't such a huge deal.

...provided these areas of need are actually addressed by the playoffs.

I don't even think there are areas of need that need to be addressed by the playoffs, at least outside of Ruhwedel being a regular.

This team is deep as hell at forward when healthy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't even think there are areas of need that need to be addressed by the playoffs, at least outside of Ruhwedel being a regular.

This team is deep as hell at forward when healthy.

It is pretty deep, I agree. Though I don't think very talented or at least varied in skillsets. But I suppose that's a whole other debate.

 

[Peat]

But... I've been repeatedly corrected on this issue insisting that Sullivan is different. Something something Marino? No?

Certainly people wouldn't argue from a place of dishonestly simply to win an imaginary point. That's just silly!

Sully goes for the veteran 9/10 if the players are roughly tied on talent and impact, but is pretty good at recognising that the kid is flat out better and can be trusted.

 

[billybudd]

Boyle peaked as an overachieving checking line player 7 or 8 years ago. Since then, he's had many of the problems big guys get as they age and that's before we get into what cancer recovery and family crises may or may not have done to him.

I like the player he was and admire his perseverance, but the odds are that anyone who thinks he'll make any sort of contribution to an NHL hockey team in 2021 is about a half decade out of date.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I can't help but think that If Boyle makes the team that they'll have him suit up for the Caps and perhaps some of the Islanders games. Obviously in attempts to match physicality, Idk if it's a good idea

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Boyle peaked as an overachieving checking line player 7 or 8 years ago. Since then, he's had many of the problems big guys get as they age and that's before we get into what cancer recovery and family crises may or may not have done to him.

I like the player he was and admire his perseverance, but the odds are that anyone who thinks he'll make any sort of contribution to an NHL hockey team in 2021 is about a half decade out of date.

Yeah I think this is accurate. But I'm not looking at Boyle as a thing for any more than like 20 games. And see him as a cheap vet who has been there and all that happy jazz.

Health should push him out. And clearly since Sullivan is such an even handed coach any farmhand worth his salt should be able to outplay him and push him out of the lineup past that, yes?

 

[The Old Master]

Health should push him out. And clearly since Sullivan is such an even handed coach any farmhand worth his salt should be able to outplay him and push him out of the lineup past that, yes?

i would rather see boyle sitting on the bench and have the kids playing big min. in wbs. than the other way.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

If anyone is interested, or knows someone that would be in this job:

NHL Live Social Contributor - Pittsburgh Penguins

 

[dogthateats]

Idk who the person is that tweeted this, but KK shared it on an Instagram post haha

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Tanev left a note for KK to let him know where he left the stash.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Idk who the person is that tweeted this, but KK shared it on an Instagram post haha

KK is the best trade of the Sid and Geno era, Cups be damned this man is a gem