Salary Cap: Penguins future roster-building (2017-18 and beyond) | Contract/FA charts in Post #1

[Shady Machine]

Interestingly enough, I read something yesterday (don't remember where, though) that the NHL is planning to televise the ED as part of the awards show. Or bundle it with the awards show.

They should. A lot of fans would tune into that. Might as well up the ratings if they can. I just hope they make it more entertaining than the odd draft lottery drawing ceremony

 

[Peat]

-I don't know if I see how Dumo gets significantly less than Maatta, at least in cap hit. I think his agent isn't walking out of there with much less than that, and I don't blame them.

Maatta got 4m for a 30 point rookie season (in terms of pace anyway) and 9 in 20 the next injury truncated season. Dumo wouldn't recognise that sort of scoring numbers if they turned up at his window with a six pack. He's also crapped the bed defensively multiple times this season.

4m for Dumo would be an overpayment.

 

[Clare2904]

I think Letang has to be protected no?

Protected from himself

 

[SEALBound]

Honestly I think any more talk of Duchene coming here in a trade is moot unless you want to lose any combination of Guentzel/Sprong/Sheary. And most knowledgable Penguins fans won't even entertain it.

Absolutely not but I'm not convinced that's what the actual package would end up looking like. If it happens, awesome. If not, I think we will still be okay.

Maatta got 4m for a 30 point rookie season (in terms of pace anyway) and 9 in 20 the next injury truncated season. Dumo wouldn't recognise that sort of scoring numbers if they turned up at his window with a six pack. He's also crapped the bed defensively multiple times this season.

4m for Dumo would be an overpayment.

A bridge deal for Dumoulin makes the most sense. He's not a phenom like some of the recent young dmen to get big RFA contracts like Lindholm, Vatanen, Ekblad, etc. A 2-3 yr, 2-3mil deal makes a lot of sense for both sides. If Dumo turns into the top pairing dman we need him to, he can cash in and we'll be happy to pay it. Right now he's in that 2-2.5mil range based on play. He's been great but I want more. Playoffs may get us a better understanding of what kind of deal to strike.

Same applies to Sheary. Although he's been great, tossing him a $4mil contract is incredibly risky. I think a 2yr $3mil (max) deal is what's best there.

 

[Riptide]

Pens have to come to grips with protecting Letang, Schultz and Dumo. Expose or trade Oli. Maybe. But consider this. I would give consideration of actually exposing Letang Pens have 30 million of the remaining contract and I am not sure he will stay close to healthy. If the Pens think Olli simply is a defenseman that will never be what they hoped he would be. Expose him. Either way, Pens are going to protect their future. Dumo, Schultz are part of that.

Even with Letangs NTC, Pittsburgh could trade him tomorrow after the season with zero issues.

 

[Riptide]

I can't remember where I read it, but I heard the ED list of protected/available players isn't going to be made public. Is this correct?

I believe that's currently the case. Teams will submit them, and then the NHL will do some sort of revel on who LV is selecting from each team after their 3 days are up. At least that's what I remember hearing/reading.

 

[Riptide]

4. Resign Dumoulin to a bridge. 3 years, 2.75mil. Resign Sheary to a bridge. 2/3 yr, 2.5/3mil. Resign Schultz 5yr, 3.75mil.

5. Look at the dman market. Alzner or Kulikov. 4-5yrs, $4mil.

There's absolutely no way either of those guys sign a contract remotely close to that. Hell I don't even think we could get Schultz to sign a 1 year deal that cheap, let alone a 5 year deal. As for Kulikov, there's no way I'd be signing him to a contract with term until I knew a lot more about his back. And given the season he had last year, I think he'll be hard pressed to earn a 16-20m contract.

Also keep in mind that with Sheary and Dumoulin, they're UFA's in 2 years. I have a hard time seeing Rutherford sign either to 2 year contracts. 1 year or 3-5 years.

 

[Riptide]

I don't see why it would have to be a combination of those players. That's beyond any report of what Colorado was asking for.

One of them involved in a package was the talk.

DK has reported that the conversation for Duchene started with Sprong AND Guentzel. It didn't stop there. Needless to say, there's a reason why Duchene is still in Colorado and not in Pittsburgh.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

A bridge deal for Dumoulin makes the most sense. He's not a phenom like some of the recent young dmen to get big RFA contracts like Lindholm, Vatanen, Ekblad, etc. A 2-3 yr, 2-3mil deal makes a lot of sense for both sides. If Dumo turns into the top pairing dman we need him to, he can cash in and we'll be happy to pay it. Right now he's in that 2-2.5mil range based on play. He's been great but I want more. Playoffs may get us a better understanding of what kind of deal to strike.

Same applies to Sheary. Although he's been great, tossing him a $4mil contract is incredibly risky. I think a 2yr $3mil (max) deal is what's best there.

Maatta got 4m for a 30 point rookie season (in terms of pace anyway) and 9 in 20 the next injury truncated season. Dumo wouldn't recognise that sort of scoring numbers if they turned up at his window with a six pack. He's also crapped the bed defensively multiple times this season.

4m for Dumo would be an overpayment.

I suppose we'll see. As we sit here today I don't know how anyone can say Dumoulin isn't comparable to Maatta. Sure he's not perfect and is deficient offensively. At the moment that also perfectly describes Maatta. I don't see a 25+ percent difference between the two simply because Maatta used to score a reasonable but unspectacular amount of points and has since failed to do so, and I don't see why Dumoulin's agent would either. It also bears repeating that right now any of us would rather play Dumo in any situation over Maatta with the possible exception of mop up time on the power play.

When it comes to this kind of stuff believe me I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right. Any amount of cap space saved is cool with me.

 

[Riptide]

I suppose we'll see. As we sit here today I don't know how anyone can say Dumoulin isn't comparable to Maatta. Sure he's not perfect and is deficient offensively. At the moment that also perfectly describes Maatta. I don't see a 25+ percent difference between the two simply because Maatta used to score a reasonable but unspectacular amount of points and has since failed to do so, and I don't see why Dumoulin's agent would either. It also bears repeating that right now any of us would rather play Dumo in any situation over Maatta with the possible exception of mop up time on the power play.

When it comes to this kind of stuff believe me I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right. Any amount of cap space saved is cool with me.

But it doesn't describe him when he signed his contract. And that's a key difference.

Then I don't know what to tell you. Just because Maatta isn't living up to his contract, doesn't mean Pittsburgh will happily sign Dumoulin to the same thing "because they're now similar". PIT signed Maatta to that contract at a time when he was producing significantly more then he has been. And regardless of whether his agent points that out or not, it doesn't mean that it's going to sway PIT into signing Dumoulin to a similar poor contract.

Personally for Dumoulin, I think we'll see either a 3x3m or a 4x3.5m type deal. Or a 1 year 2-2.5m contract (although I think both sides probably want some term there).

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

But it doesn't describe him when he signed his contract. And that's a key difference.

Then I don't know what to tell you. Just because Maatta isn't living up to his contract, doesn't mean Pittsburgh will happily sign Dumoulin to the same thing "because they're now similar". PIT signed Maatta to that contract at a time when he was producing significantly more then he has been. And regardless of whether his agent points that out or not, it doesn't mean that it's going to sway PIT into signing Dumoulin to a similar poor contract.

Personally for Dumoulin, I think we'll see either a 3x3m or a 4x3.5m type deal. Or a 1 year 2-2.5m contract (although I think both sides probably want some term there).

Maybe I'm screwing up the timeline but I thought they signed Maatta to that deal last year, a year where he was generally not very good to that point and was probably around 15 points at the time (this was February). Maybe they thought that was an aberration, as many of us did, so I see what you mean there. There's also an argument for Maatta showing previously some justification for being viewed as having some potential, whereas Dumoulin I think mostly is what he is. So I see what you're saying.

 

[Shady Machine]

Alzner at 4MM? If the dude leaves Washington, it's because some team gave him 6MM a year long term.

 

[Shady Machine]

I was on the Dumo for 4MM train early in the year (as in that's what he would get), but given his play this season and looking at when Maatta signed his contract, I think a shorter term deal in the 3-3.5MM is probably advantageous for both parties.

 

[Peat]

I suppose we'll see. As we sit here today I don't know how anyone can say Dumoulin isn't comparable to Maatta. Sure he's not perfect and is deficient offensively. At the moment that also perfectly describes Maatta. I don't see a 25+ percent difference between the two simply because Maatta used to score a reasonable but unspectacular amount of points and has since failed to do so, and I don't see why Dumoulin's agent would either. It also bears repeating that right now any of us would rather play Dumo in any situation over Maatta with the possible exception of mop up time on the power play.

When it comes to this kind of stuff believe me I hope I'm wrong and you guys are right. Any amount of cap space saved is cool with me.

He's comparable today, but he's not comparable to the Maatta that got that contract, and I don't see why we should overpay Dumo because it turned out we're overpaying Maatta (for this season at least, possibly longer).

I see why you think his agent will make the argument, and I can even see him getting away with it, but I don't think he should. Personally, if the agent comes in telling me Dumo wants 4m and isn't going lower, then Dumo isn't starting the season as a Penguin.

But then I'm not Rutherford and I might be misreading the market for dmen, so who knows?

A bridge deal for Dumoulin makes the most sense. He's not a phenom like some of the recent young dmen to get big RFA contracts like Lindholm, Vatanen, Ekblad, etc. A 2-3 yr, 2-3mil deal makes a lot of sense for both sides. If Dumo turns into the top pairing dman we need him to, he can cash in and we'll be happy to pay it. Right now he's in that 2-2.5mil range based on play. He's been great but I want more. Playoffs may get us a better understanding of what kind of deal to strike.

Same applies to Sheary. Although he's been great, tossing him a $4mil contract is incredibly risky. I think a 2yr $3mil (max) deal is what's best there.

I'd agree on a bridge for Dumo but maybe not one for Sheary. I can easily see him continuing his play and pricing himself out of another contract in Pittsburgh. Tossing him a long term 4mil contract is risky, but if he maintains his play throughout its also an absolute bargain.

 

[Penske]

I'd like to see Sheary and Dumo 3 yrs @3 mil.

Schultz 3yrs @ 4.5 mil (push for 4 years if possible at that cap hit)

 

[Riptide]

Maybe I'm screwing up the timeline but I thought they signed Maatta to that deal last year, a year where he was generally not very good to that point and was probably around 15 points at the time (this was February). Maybe they thought that was an aberration, as many of us did, so I see what you mean there. There's also an argument for Maatta showing previously some justification for being viewed as having some potential, whereas Dumoulin I think mostly is what he is. So I see what you're saying.

He had 6g/15pts in 49 games while playing 20 minutes a night. But basically you summed it up at the end there. Maatta had at the time of that signing roughly 60 pts in 160 games. Not bad for a rookie who looked as good as he did in his first year and missed most of his 2nd year. At that time, everyone thought he would end up being a #2/3D - and perhaps even more. We now know it's most like a #4D (maybe a #3 if we're lucky). But that contract absolutely reflected some of the potential Pittsburgh though was there when it was signed. And I agree that Dumoulin doesn't exactly fall into the same boat. I mean the sum of his points over his entire career barely surpasses what Maatta did in his rookie season (30 vs 29 pts). And unfortunately for Dumoulin, that's going to affect his contract.

 

[Riptide]

I'd agree on a bridge for Dumo but maybe not one for Sheary. I can easily see him continuing his play and pricing himself out of another contract in Pittsburgh. Tossing him a long term 4mil contract is risky, but if he maintains his play throughout its also an absolute bargain.

Is it? What's Sheary's downside? A small undersized fast skilled winger. Lets say he's a 35-45 point guy if he's not with an allstar center and getting 3rd line minutes. I could handle paying him 4m for that if for whatever reason things do not pan out with Sid. He just seems so smart and elusive with the puck in the offensive zone. I mean even lastnight when he used his skate to kick the puck past the D up to his stick to get in alone. He's skilled, creative and can make plays. Other then the fact that he's a midget, he's everything we've wanted for Crosby over the last 10 years. I would absolutely sign him to a 6x4m contract if we could.

 

[Gurglesons]

I would absolutely sign him to a 6x4m contract if we could.

I agree with your assessment of Sheary, but that is way too rich for this team. Especially with other contracts coming up. I guess if you get rid of Hagelin it'd be okay. If he will accept it, a bridge deal would be the best.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Is it? What's Sheary's downside? A small undersized fast skilled winger. Lets say he's a 35-45 point guy if he's not with an allstar center and getting 3rd line minutes. I could handle paying him 4m for that if for whatever reason things do not pan out with Sid. He just seems so smart and elusive with the puck in the offensive zone. I mean even lastnight when he used his skate to kick the puck past the D up to his stick to get in alone. He's skilled, creative and can make plays. Other then the fact that he's a midget, he's everything we've wanted for Crosby over the last 10 years. I would absolutely sign him to a 6x4m contract if we could.

Yeah, I think there's an inherent risk in a contract like that but he's done enough that I'd be fine with taking the risk. His consistency has improved so much, he's got chemistry with Crosby but was still performing when Crosby was out, he's elusive but he's figured out how to get knocked down less, and even if this is his peak for production a drop would still be a productive player. I think there's still a concern with durability but it's the Pens and he's done nothing but exceed expectations.

There's something funny about a team starving for skilled wingers for so long gets Kessel and then a group of young wingers emerge.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Yeah I would honestly give Sheary the term and money if possible, and I think it will be. I'm not really concerned with what life would be like without Sid. Plus I mean look at the contracts that are doled out these days. Any halfway decent forward is getting $4 million a year. If that's what we have to give him I'd give it. In the worst case scenario he still wouldn't be worse than the Boedkers and Beleskys of the world.

 

[Pancakes]

Sheary is good and has proven chemistry with Sid. Given how hard it is to find wingers that are both young and good *and* have chemistry with Sid, I think you gotta give him what you have to.

Man if Sprong pans out we're going to have Guentzel, Sprong, and Sheary all as our winger core for the next while. And Kessel is obviously locked up for years to come as well. That's just great.

 

[66-30-33]

Sheary is good and has proven chemistry with Sid. Given how hard it is to find wingers that are both young and good *and* have chemistry with Sid, I think you gotta give him what you have to.

Man if Sprong pans out we're going to have Guentzel, Sprong, and Sheary all as our winger core for the next while. And Kessel is obviously locked up for years to come as well. That's just great.

If we keep Byron and sign Beauchemin and they both become legit that's even better. Would also have plenty of trade chips for defense too.

 

[Rufus]

Pens have to come to grips with protecting Letang, Schultz and Dumo. Expose or trade Oli. Maybe. But consider this. I would give consideration of actually exposing Letang Pens have 30 million of the remaining contract and I am not sure he will stay close to healthy. If the Pens think Olli simply is a defenseman that will never be what they hoped he would be. Expose him. Either way, Pens are going to protect their future. Dumo, Schultz are part of that.

If Pens expose Letang, he is gone. He's a #1 defenseman. Yes, he has trouble staying healthy, but he is money when he plays. The defense has no obvious replacement for him and would be considerably worse without him

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I agree with your assessment of Sheary, but that is way too rich for this team. Especially with other contracts coming up. I guess if you get rid of Hagelin it'd be okay. If he will accept it, a bridge deal would be the best.

He's a 24 year old with wheels, skill, tenacity, smarts, great chemistry with Sid, and 39 points in 45 games.

Seems like he would be a great target for a long-term deal at 4 mil per. What other contracts would you prioritize over him?

 

[Speaking Moistly]

He's a 24 year old with wheels, skill, tenacity, smarts, great chemistry with Sid, and 39 points in 45 games.

Seems like he would be a great target for a long-term deal at 4 mil per. What other contracts would you prioritize over him?

36/39 at ES as well.