Confirmed with Link: Penguins acquire D Douglas Murray from Sharks for 2013 2nd, 2014 conditional 2nd

[Shady Machine]

Hal Gill was a guy that needs to play protected minutes and DB did a decent job utilizing him. Hopefully it'll be the same with Murray.

My biggest concern with Murray is puck retrieval on dump ins. Can he be aggressive enough in gap coverage on the rush but still be able to get to the puck first in the corner? I guess if he's not the first guy to the loose puck, whoever is will be on their wallet anyway.

Yeah that's the concern with Murray. I think you have to pair him with a great skating guy like Nisky or Despres. Let them retrieve pucks as much as possible. I just hope Bylsma doesn't role an Eaton-Murray pairing. Those dudes will get walked.

 

[Shwag33]

What is wrong with looking long term? The team is already winning quite fine and they were projected to win the cup with the roster as it was. Sometimes leaving things alone is just as good as trying to change them, ever heard of "if it aint broke don't fix it"?

What's with this insistence that you need to bring in every tired overage rental in order to win a cup? Tons of teams try that every season and fail miserably, getting rentals rarely works out in favor of the team doing the buying.

Is the Penguins that I want so different from what you guys want? I want a team that contends for a cup every year for the next decade. Only one team can win each season and it's not going to be ours every time, stuff happens and it always isnt due to the way the roster is constructed.

Shero couldve sat on his hands this trade deadline and largely accomplished the same end result and we'd still be up by having Joe Morrow and two 2nds. But hey, if overspending on mediocrity gets you excited so be it.

Can you post a pic of what the 'projected stanley cup' looks like?

 

[Dying Alive]

The team was projected to steamroll everyone and win the Cup easily last year too. Instead they lost their minds and got bounced in the first round.

I feel like I could go back and dig up posts about Bill Guerin and they'd be the same as what everyone is saying about Brenden Morrow. Is anyone honestly sorry we got Guerin? I doubt it. In fact, I will fully admit that I was highly critical of that trade when it happened, and I was completely wrong. Happy to eat crow on that one. I won't make the same mistake by writing off Morrow before he even gets a chance.

 

[Captain Hook]

The team was projected to steamroll everyone and win the Cup easily last year too. Instead they lost their minds and got bounced in the first round.

I think that's why they've been trying to add some veterans with leadership qualities this year.

 

[nTsplnk*]

Can you please get over the summer thing? The Semin thing is over with. Carolina just signed him to a 5 year 7per deal. I am sure glad Shero didn't do that.

There's no way you can argue with him here imo.

Semin was trashed on here and now he's making everyone eat crow. We didn't have to re-sign Semin. We could've had him for a Cup run, though.

 

[Shady Machine]

What is wrong with looking long term? The team is already winning quite fine and they were projected to win the cup with the roster as it was. Sometimes leaving things alone is just as good as trying to change them, ever heard of "if it aint broke don't fix it"?

What's with this insistence that you need to bring in every tired overage rental in order to win a cup? Tons of teams try that every season and fail miserably, getting rentals rarely works out in favor of the team doing the buying.

Is the Penguins that I want so different from what you guys want? I want a team that contends for a cup every year for the next decade. Only one team can win each season and it's not going to be ours every time, stuff happens and it always isnt due to the way the roster is constructed.

Shero couldve sat on his hands this trade deadline and largely accomplished the same end result and we'd still be up by having Joe Morrow and two 2nds. But hey, if overspending on mediocrity gets you excited so be it.

Wow it's amazing how much we disagree

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, it's just interesting. Nearly every year the team that wins the cup upgraded their roster at the deadline. We did it in 2009, Chicago didn't because they were stacked to begin with, Boston did in 2011, LA did in 2012 and many teams before them. Believe me, I'd love to have added a Kulemin, Stewart, Setogouchi type that we could sign long term and be a solution going forward. Those guys just weren't available as all of their teams are playoff teams this year.

As for the projections, they are just that, projections. There are no guarantees. I want a GM that doesn't say "well we are in 1st place and projected to win so let's just ride this out". Shero saw a team playing well and wanted to make them better. He paid a high price, but he didn't mortgage the future. We still have one of the best d prospect pools in the league. We are still that team that will contend for the next decade without Joe Morrow and 2 second round picks.

So Shero took one of the best teams in the league, traded some assets to make them better, and they are still set up to contend for the foreseeable future. What is there to be upset about?

 

[nTsplnk*]

His problem is that he is looking long term and over exaggerating how much these trades hurt the long term. We made our team better today and really didn't hurt the future. I don't like the price we paid, but the market dictated it. It's not like we under valued Joe Morrow, we just decided we were willing to pay an increased price this year for a shot at the cup.

Well said! Completely agreed. Hope it works out for us

 

[Shady Machine]

There's no way you can argue with him here imo.

Semin was trashed on here and now he's making everyone eat crow. We didn't have to re-sign Semin. We could've had him for a Cup run, though.

He's not wrong. I would have taken a chance on Semin too. There difference is, I'm not still complaining about it 8 months later in every post I make while my username is No Wingers.

 

[SteelFish87*]

I just hope Bylsma doesn't role an Eaton-Murray pairing. Those dudes will get walked.

That is my biggest worry. Eaton should be our #7 guy

 

[The Tang]

I wasnt talking about Iginla as he's old as well, I want younger players that will be with the team in their prime for a while not guys on the downsides of their career either currently in a steep decline or about to enter one. But just using common sense Joe Morrow, and two 2nds would return a quality player on value alone. Screw this rental crap, all our rental deals have blown and been a gigantic waste of resources.

Except that any team that has good, young and established players aren't going to give them up for prospects. Would you trade Letang or Neal for Morrow and 2 2nd round picks? Do you think that package could land Jeff Skinner or Tyler Meyers? No GM, armchair or real, will give up a good young player for picks, hoping to strike gold on another one and frankly it's a bit naive to think they would.

Would we all love to do that? Sure, but it doesn't happen. I don't like the prices the Pens have paid for rentals either, but if Shero could spend those on a good young player, don't you think he would have? You want a good young player, you have to give up one; that's how we got Neal. It was a hockey trade not a swap for picks and prospects. The trade deadline is what it is and it's not going to change. If you want to add something then you have to pay the price, adn no team that is selling, even if they know it months in advance, will sell early because they can get better prices later.

 

[nTsplnk*]

What is wrong with looking long term? The team is already winning quite fine and they were projected to win the cup with the roster as it was. Sometimes leaving things alone is just as good as trying to change them, ever heard of "if it aint broke don't fix it"?

What's with this insistence that you need to bring in every tired overage rental in order to win a cup? Tons of teams try that every season and fail miserably, getting rentals rarely works out in favor of the team doing the buying.

Is the Penguins that I want so different from what you guys want? I want a team that contends for a cup every year for the next decade. Only one team can win each season and it's not going to be ours every time, stuff happens and it always isnt due to the way the roster is constructed.

Shero couldve sat on his hands this trade deadline and largely accomplished the same end result and we'd still be up by having Joe Morrow and two 2nds. But hey, if overspending on mediocrity gets you excited so be it.

Joe Morrow doesn't even make us a contender. Our 2nd round picks always sucked. Joe Morrow might be a huge bust. Or he might be a Norris contender. Who knows? Who cares? We have to win now.

Look man, there are teams that contend almost every year but never win (See, Philly-they did what you want-don't keep winners, just get younger and contend for 10 years1!1!, now the players they traded won in LA and they're a lottery team atm). If you don't go for it, you never win. This is a fact.

 

[JQR]

And the Dallas guy wanted what he wanted. Shero didn't set the value, he only paid it.

This is simple here, folks. Don't overthink it.

Who's overthinking? It's clear as day.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

Haha at the people claiming Shero intentionally drove up the market for Iginla by overpaying for Morrow and Murray.

There's no denying Shero overpaid for them. But that's what happens when you wait until the deadline to make your moves. There is an offseason for a reason.

Shero struggled to do anything significant this summer. Thus, we are stuck trading Joe Morrow for Brenden Morrow.

What was Shero supposed to do this offseason...Send Luca Brasi to Parise's house and make him an offer he couldn't refuse?

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

You're talking to a fan base that thinks St. Louis would actually trade their 25 y/o leading scorer at the deadline whilst they're in the playoff hunt for whatever reason.

and that 1 for 1 for Niskanen it would actually be a good deal for the Blues when they traded EJ to acquire him

 

[nTsplnk*]

Who's overthinking? It's clear as day.

Shero did it to drive up iginla's value!! To weaken the Bruins!

As if the Bruins were giving up a roster player anyway. It's just so ridiculous I don't even know what to say.
Calgary want's futures. Boston wants to add to the roster not subtract. The same deals before the Morrow trade are still talked about as fair value after it.

Don't overthink it folks. Shero added Morrow and Murray to add depth and fill holes.

 

[nTsplnk*]

He's not wrong. I would have taken a chance on Semin too. There difference is, I'm not still complaining about it 8 months later in every post I make while my username is No Wingers.

True .

 

[Gooch]

Except that any team that has good, young and established players aren't going to give them up for prospects. Would you trade Letang or Neal for Morrow and 2 2nd round picks? Do you think that package could land Jeff Skinner or Tyler Meyers? No GM, armchair or real, will give up a good young player for picks, hoping to strike gold on another one and frankly it's a bit naive to think they would.

Would we all love to do that? Sure, but it doesn't happen. I don't like the prices the Pens have paid for rentals either, but if Shero could spend those on a good young player, don't you think he would have? You want a good young player, you have to give up one; that's how we got Neal. It was a hockey trade not a swap for picks and prospects. The trade deadline is what it is and it's not going to change. If you want to add something then you have to pay the price, adn no team that is selling, even if they know it months in advance, will sell early because they can get better prices later.

We don't know what players are available, we can only speculate. Like I pointed out none of us had any idea James Neal was available via trade, most of use rightfully so would assume a young 30 goal scorer was virtually untouchable.

but if Shero could spend those on a good young player, don't you think he would have?

No, I don't. He wanted what he wanted and paid what it took. Some people like what he got, I don't.

 

[Gooch]

That is my biggest worry. Eaton should be our #7 guy

I think we all know how Bylsma works by now. Bennett and Despres will be the odd ones out and Bortuzzo will just not see the ice at all.

 

[Shady Machine]

We don't know what players are available, we can only speculate. Like I pointed out none of us had any idea James Neal was available via trade, most of use rightfully so would assume a young 30 goal scorer was virtually untouchable.



No, I don't. He wanted what he wanted and paid what it took. Some people like what he got, I don't.

We didn't know Neal was available, but many were saying Gogo for Neal made a lot of sense leading up to the deadline.

 

[The Tang]

We don't know what players are available, we can only speculate. Like I pointed out none of us had any idea James Neal was available via trade, most of use rightfully so would assume a young 30 goal scorer was virtually untouchable.

I don't know, I was harping to my friends the summer beforehand to do something along the lines of trading one of our young dman for Neal or Benn seeing as they had a surplus of young forwards and needed dmen and we were the opposite (mind you, didnt actually think it would happen). Rumors had swirled on things like that too.

No, I don't. He wanted what he wanted and paid what it took. Some people like what he got, I don't.

Well it's pretty apparent you're being closed minded with the intent on just riding Shero for these trades because you hate them so much. This is horribly naive to think that. As I said, I don't like what we paid either, especially for Morrow, but to think Shero just thought that is silly. Besides, even as you said, we don't know what's out there. It apparently doesn't matter that there may have been no young players available, you're just going to assume there are dome available so you can bash Shero for not jumping on them.

 

[johnniewalker]

Those who think like this let me ask you something. Does your money become less valuable to you on payday because you have more of it at that point in time? I'd expect you to say of course not, so why on earth does a defensive puck moving prospect become less valuable simply because we have a few others? If the point of drafting these guys is that they're going to be worth more and parlayed into something more valuable than their initial draft position/pick would get then blowing them on this type of return isnt exactly convincing me of that.

This is a ridiculous straw man argument.

Your money doesn't becomes less valuable to you on payday because you have more of it at that point in time. However, after multiple paydays in which you save and have a surplus of money, you can spend that money very differently than you would if you had a shortage of money. Millionaires might spend $200,000 on a car, while someone with exactly $200,000 would never spend all of their money on a car. When you have a surplus of a valued commodity, that gives you the freedom to use that commodity to acquire commodities of which you have a shortage.

 

[Gooch]

I don't know, I was harping to my friends the summer beforehand to do something along the lines of trading one of our young dman for Neal or Benn seeing as they had a surplus of young forwards and needed dmen and we were the opposite (mind you, didnt actually think it would happen). Rumors had swirled on things like that too.




Well it's pretty apparent you're being closed minded with the intent on just riding Shero for these trades because you hate them so much. This is horribly naive to think that. As I said, I don't like what we paid either, especially for Morrow, but to think Shero just thought that is silly. Besides, even as you said, we don't know what's out there. It apparently doesn't matter that there may have been no young players available, you're just going to assume there are dome available so you can bash Shero for not jumping on them.

It's pretty clear that Shero wanted Murray and Morrow and didnt just settle on them. The analytics disagreed with the trade and he just disregarded it.

I don't get how you can be so against the Morrow trade and ripping it on value but not criticize the sum of both of these deals?

 

[Shady Machine]

It's pretty clear that Shero wanted Murray and Morrow and didnt just settle on them. The analytics disagreed with the trade and he just disregarded it.

I don't get how you can be so against the Morrow trade and ripping it on value but not criticize the sum of both of these deals?

Analytics are not everything.

 

[Gooch]

This is a ridiculous straw man argument.

Your money doesn't becomes less valuable to you on payday because you have more of it at that point in time. However, after multiple paydays in which you save and have a surplus of money, you can spend that money very differently than you would if you had a shortage of money. Millionaires might spend $200,000 on a car, while someone with exactly $200,000 would never spend all of their money on a car. When you have a surplus of a valued commodity, that gives you the freedom to use that commodity to acquire commodities of which you have a shortage.

The 200,000 dollar car remains a 200,000 dollar car at retail regardless if you're a millionaire or someone who makes 30k a year. Millionaires don't purposely spend more than something is worth because they have more money.

 

[JQR]

Shero did it to drive up iginla's value!! To weaken the Bruins!

As if the Bruins were giving up a roster player anyway. It's just so ridiculous I don't even know what to say.
Calgary want's futures. Boston wants to add to the roster not subtract. The same deals before the Morrow trade are still talked about as fair value after it.

Don't overthink it folks. Shero added Morrow and Murray to add depth and fill holes.

Because no GM has ever sabotaged another's attempts to acquire a player. I'm not saying that is definitely what is happening, but I am saying the possibility definitely warrants speculation.