Post-Game Talk: Penguins 4, Islanders 3 (OT) - Riley Sheahan Beat a Goalie

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Fair enough, maybe it's more on his transition/mohawk where he's not getting the immediate power he has previously. But I know I've seen forwards get around him to the outside successfully enough to drive the near post with no real opposition.

His stickwork 1-1 was always sublime, but people never really talked about that, and his stickwork looks off to me much more than any skating issues.

If you aren't using your stick well 1-1, it's going to cause issues and guys will catch the corner on you no matter how well you can skate, because it causes you to lose your skating fundamentals.

We'll see if he can clean up his stickwork and I'm 100% sure he will suddenly look like he is "skating better" to most people.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Sheahan ends up being a 30-point player and defensive stud, then I am 100% fine with him as 3C. It just seems like his current stretch of stats are not an accurate representation of what he brought to those games. His 7 points in 11 games seem mostly attributed to luck, where 3 or 4 of every 5 scoring chances are going in the net. Not only is that UNSUSTAINABLE, but the underlying impediment is that he is just not involved in many scoring chances. Add to that, he doesn't create many on his own. It's great that he can score an empty net and a mostly empty net goal, but the play in OT where he turned an absolute prime scoring chance into mud seemed more in line with what we should ultimately expect.

My point is simply that he just as easily could have had 2 or 3 points over this stretch instead of 7. He's definitely playing better, but no one should ever mistake this stretch of games for him as looking like a 40+ point player. He looked mostly the same and has been on the right side of good fortune during this stretch in my opinion. I'd be curious to see his scoring chances for/against if anyone has them?

This mostly just seems like a baseless attempt to discredit Sheahan. He's been lucky? He could only have 2 or 3 points over that stretch? Seriously? That's just a blatant attempt to discredit what he has actually done.

 

[UnrealMachine]

This mostly just seems like a baseless attempt to discredit Sheahan.

Allow me to construct a base, then.

He's been lucky?

How exactly would you characterize the circumstances leading to the two goals he has scored? "Unlucky"?!?

He could only have 2 or 3 points over that stretch? Seriously? That's just a blatant attempt to discredit what he has actually done.

What is his PDO over that stretch? How many scoring chances was he involved in over that time period? Anecdotally, I almost never notice him being part of a scoring chance unless the team actually scores, which as we both know is not often. The scoring chances that stick out the most are more similar to the OT scoring chance where the play dies on his stick.

I don't disagree that I'm being harsh here, but take a closer look of his overall offensive play over this time period if you believe the *results* to be the new normal.

 

[Shady Machine]

Sheahan 6 points in last 10 games, those are bad 3C numbers...he sucks!!

Well thought out post.

 

[Ogrezilla]

This mostly just seems like a baseless attempt to discredit Sheahan. He's been lucky? He could only have 2 or 3 points over that stretch? Seriously? That's just a blatant attempt to discredit what he has actually done.

Yep, he's making legit plays. They aren't fancy Crosby passes, but he's not getting gift points from a 3 foot pass in the neutral zone second assist either.

 

[Shady Machine]

This mostly just seems like a baseless attempt to discredit Sheahan. He's been lucky? He could only have 2 or 3 points over that stretch? Seriously? That's just a blatant attempt to discredit what he has actually done.

Maybe it is, but both of his goals were near gifts. Wide open empty net and Halak passing the puck to him. It was a sweet shot on Halak though and he was in the right place so I give him credit for that.

I hope he builds off the confidence from beating Halak. I’m personally not confident he keeps producing consistently, but overall he’s been a really nice addition. I agree with unreal though that he’s not generating many scoring chances on his own. I don’t have numbers to back that up so maybe my bias is clouding reality.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe it is, but both of his goals were near gifts. Wide open empty net and Halak passing the puck to him. It was a sweet shot on Halak though and he was in the right place so I give him credit for that.

I hope he builds off the confidence from beating Halak. I’m personally not confident he keeps producing consistently, but overall he’s been a really nice addition. I agree with unreal though that he’s not generating many scoring chances on his own. I don’t have numbers to back that up so maybe my bias is clouding reality.

And that shot wouldn't have gone in unless it was perfect, which it was. I genuinely have no idea why some people are so hellbent on dismissing Sheahan at this point. He has been legitimately good. At this point, saying "he's been lucky" or "he might only have 2 or 3 points on this stretch" is just completely discrediting him, that's all it is.

Some people are just so set on their opinions being right that even when he's proving them wrong (at least to an extent), people still fabricate ways to **** on him. It would be like someone saying Sheary still sucked last year after he started the year with 15 points in 20 games because "look at his PDO" or "he plays with Crosby" or "he has only gotten lucky". I still think he needs to improve his goal scoring and continue to do what he has done, but the outlandish claims that people make to discredit him are just ridiculous.

 

[Gurglesons]

I honestly think the "play 60 minutes" thing is overblown. It just seems like something people say when the Penguins don't dominate a game start to finish, which pretty much no one does. Things happen, you lose leads, you have stretches where the other team is executing well. This is not a Penguin problem IMO. It seems like for some people playing 60 minutes means working over the other team for an entire night without fail, which pretty much doesn't happen, and if it does it's an aberration.

Agreed 100%.

Hockey is a game of errors these days. Our issue is that we have a fourth line and parts of our third line that rarely take advantage of the errors presented to them.

Our top six has no issue with that.

 

[Gurglesons]

And that shot wouldn't have gone in unless it was perfect, which it was. I genuinely have no idea why some people are so hellbent on dismissing Sheahan at this point. He has been legitimately good. At this point, saying "he's been lucky" or "he might only have 2 or 3 points on this stretch" is just completely discrediting him, that's all it is.

It's honestly pathetic, I'll use that word. Some people are just so set on their opinions being right that even when he's proving them wrong (at least to an extent), people still fabricate ways to **** on him. It would be like someone saying Sheary still sucked last year after he started the year with 15 points in 20 games because "look at his PDO" or "he plays with Crosby" or "he has only gotten lucky".

I mean, there is a big difference between Sheary putting up goals and Sheahan having one goal and some secondary assists while he was in our defensive zone.

I agree, Sheahan’s shot placement last night was key, but nothing about this string of games has said “offensive” catalyst like say Staal, Bonino or even Sutter.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Sheahan 6 points in last 10 games, those are bad 3C numbers...he sucks!!

Our 3C and 4C could have 10 game point streaks and there are some who will constantly ask why JR didn't do something to address the issue...it's beyond a dead horse at this moment

 

[cheesedanish87]

This mostly just seems like a baseless attempt to discredit Sheahan. He's been lucky? He could only have 2 or 3 points over that stretch? Seriously? That's just a blatant attempt to discredit what he has actually done.

Lots of fans don't like to admit when they were wrong.

If they didn't like the Sheahan trade they are going to come up with anything they can to try downplay his play.

 

[Gurglesons]

Lots of fans don't like to admit when they were wrong.

If they didn't like the Sheahan trade they are going to come up with anything they can to try downplay his play.

I loved the Sheahan deal, and still think he looks like he is leisurely skating around every game and is definitely not driving offense on his line.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Lots of fans don't like to admit when they were wrong.

If they didn't like the Sheahan trade they are going to come up with anything they can to try downplay his play.

That or bring up legitimate discuss points like his dearth of scoring chances, gift-wrapped empty net & goalie error goals, and likely (I don't know how to find this) unsustainable stretch of PDO that go unacknowledged by the "you're just a hater" side of the discussion. Cool story though. Perhaps try repeating it to yourself in front of a mirror when a Murray discussion is occurring?

 

[cheesedanish87]

That or bring up legitimate discuss points like his dearth of scoring chances, gift-wrapped empty net & goalie error goals, and likely (I don't know how to find this) unsustainable stretch of PDO that go unacknowledged by the "you're just a hater" side of the discussion. Cool story though. Perhaps try repeating it to yourself in front of a mirror when a Murray discussion is occurring?

Their is a thread that's titled Matt Murray's play so far.

I'm post number 25

Please go read my post.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Those aren't legitimate discussion points, though. It's an attempt to discredit a player that is playing well, that's really all it is. You're just bringing up stats without giving the actual numbers and saying "they probably support my opinion". It's completely baseless, it's not legitimate at all. It's literally someone who doesn't like Sheahan just making up ways to discredit Sheahan.

I actually did manage to find out how to get the stats you're talking about on naturalstattrick. Since November 14th (Sheahan's 1st point on this recent stretch), he has been on the ice for 70 shots for and 8 goals for at 5 on 5 play. That's a on ice shooting% of 11.4%, which is high but nothing ridiculous. Sheary and Guentzel were at over 10.5% last season for 40-60 games, what Sheahan has done over the last 11 games is high but it's nothing unreasonable. In terms of "scoring on 3 or 4 of every scoring chance", Sheahan has been on the ice for 24 high danger corsi for, while only having 4 high danger corsi goals, which is a high danger shooting% of 16.7%, that is again comparable to what Sheary and Guentzel did over a full season last year. Sheahan's PDO is actually 1011, when the average PDO is 1000. He has a low on ice save% to compensate for his high on ice shooting%. That is 9th on the Penguins. So basically, you're wrong and you just assumed you were right. Sheahan when on the ice is scoring higher than normal, but it's nothing that makes the argument of "he's been lucky" even remotely fair or logical.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

That or bring up legitimate discuss points like his dearth of scoring chances, gift-wrapped empty net & goalie error goals, and likely (I don't know how to find this) unsustainable stretch of PDO that go unacknowledged by the "you're just a hater" side of the discussion. Cool story though. Perhaps try repeating it to yourself in front of a mirror when a Murray discussion is occurring?

Dearth of scoring chances eh? Seems like I remember he had the potential GWG on his stick in OT. But I realize that's a pesky factoid

 

[WayneSid9987]

Official scoring change on Jake's goal last night to Letang.
Sid picks up another assist for 2 total last night.

 

[PensandCaps]

2 points for sid in his worst game this year.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I mean, there is a big difference between Sheary putting up goals and Sheahan having one goal and some secondary assists while he was in our defensive zone.

I agree, Sheahan’s shot placement last night was key, but nothing about this string of games has said “offensive” catalyst like say Staal, Bonino or even Sutter.

This is funny, because he's only got one secondary assist on this run and it's probably the best play he made for any of these 7 points He wins a battle behind the net, dumping the d-man along the wall, then makes a nice elevated pass over a stick to Rust in the slot who got it to Hagelin. He did have one pass from the D zone for an assist though. Solid lead pass from our faceoff circles to Kessel in stride at the far blueline. None of the points were some crazy Crosby type of assist, but none of them were "wait, Sheahan touched it?" type points either. He is making legitimately good plays.

And for as soft as people like to say he is, 3 of the assists are direct results of him winning board battles in the O zone.

 

[ncm7772]

Penguins are the best team hands down in the Metropolitan Division

 

[ncm7772]

2 points for sid in his worst game this year.

Do you mean 2 for the team, or 2 points for Sid himself? Because he only had the one assist I believe.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is funny, because he's only got one secondary assist on this run and it's probably the best play he made for any of these 7 points He wins a battle behind the net, dumping the d-man along the wall, then makes a nice elevated pass over a stick to Rust in the slot who got it to Hagelin. He did have one pass from the D zone for an assist though. Solid lead pass from our faceoff circles to send Kessel all in stride at the far blueline.

And for as soft as people like to say he is, 3 of the 6 assists are direct results of him winning board battles in the O zone.

For some reason I thought both the Kessel goals he assisted on were Sheahan to Jake to Kessel.

I don’t know, I like Sheahan so I don’t need to get into an unnecessary battle downplaying him. He just strikes me as a player that just floats half his shifts and cycles to the point.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Do you mean 2 for the team, or 2 points for Sid himself? Because he only had the one assist I believe.

Guentzel wasn’t credited with a goal. Letang got it and Sid was awarded an assist

 

[ColePens]

The thing that concerns me now with Letang is how consistently he's being outskated. We've certainly seen periods before where he's been too aggressive, or made bad decisions, or been useless on the Power Play, but I don't think we've seen him look slower than many other players previously. There have been a number of times lately that he's been flat out beat to the outside by driving forwards.

I dunno... he's looked the same speed and skating wise as ever to me. He made a terrible backhand cross ice pass at the blueline on their first PP and was flat footed when the 2 Isles took off down the ice with the puck... he somehow recovered and got back to cover up his mistake.

I don't think people understand how freakish that play was for him to get back... I can only think of about 2 other guys in the league that could have done that.

I think being beat 1-1 is something we rarely have seen happen with Letang before this season, and each time he has been beaten this season 1-1, it was a technical mistake I noticed in his skating, not something related to him losing a step.

To this discussion - Yohe was on Madden yesterday and mentioned Letang is being beat with speed and being beat 1 on 1, which is something we have not seen in the past. I definitely agree with Yohe. I'm seeing it, too. It's understandable to be a few steps slower with what he went through. But it's up to 58 to simplify his game, and he has not done that this year.

But as Jiggy said - he's probably one of the freakishly gifted athletes in the league. His recovery is insane. But his recovery is needed because he makes some really bad gaffes.

 

[Ogrezilla]

For some reason I thought both the Kessel goals he assisted on were Sheahan to Jake to Kessel.

I don’t know, I like Sheahan so I don’t need to get into an unnecessary battle downplaying him. He just strikes me as a player that just floats half his shifts and cycles to the point.

Nope, both were primary assists. Jake didn't get a point on either. Sheahan broke up a pass in our slot and immediately sent Kessel for a breakaway for one. The other Jake pressured on the forecheck but never touched it. The D tried to clear it, Schultz made a solid pass to Sheahan just inside the O zone and Sheahan made a backhand pass to Kessel coming down the wing. Nothing crazy on either, but legit good plays.

The best play he made in any of these is definitely the battle and chip pass to Rust for a 2nd assist on Hags goal. That one I would say is legitimately him creating the offense.