Salary Cap: Penguins 2013-14 cap/roster building discussion (Contract chart in Post #2)

[KIRK]

Why would we take on another center when we were trying to shave off salary? We had just traded for Sutter who was a lauded 3rd line center anyways.

I mean, hindsight is one thing.. but why would we go for two 3rd line centers when we were looking for wingers?

Um, Nick Foligno isn't a center.

Really, stop embarrassing yourself.

Because Foligno is a winger?

And a **** disturbing one with a little bit of skill at that. 2/3 tweener. Could've fit well with Malkin and Neal.

 

[Gurglesons]

Um, Nick Foligno isn't a center.

Really, stop embarrassing yourself.

I said earlier I thought for some reason he was a center.

The only thing embarrassing is we kept Kennedy over Foligno if we didn't trade Michalek for him.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Um, Nick Foligno isn't a center.

Really, stop embarrassing yourself.

Only because the Pens didn't trade for him.

"With all due respect coach, I've never played center in my life."
"That may be so, but let me tell you a story about James Neal."

 

[KIRK]

I said earlier I thought for some reason he was a center.

The only thing embarrassing is we kept Kennedy over Foligno if we didn't trade Michalek for him.

Huh? We traded Michalek in a pure salary dump to make sure we had the cap space for Parise and Suter if we managed to sign both.

Only because the Pens didn't trade for him.

"With all due respect coach, I've never played center in my life."
"That may be so, but let me tell you a story about James Neal."

Dude, that's awesome

 

[Gurglesons]

Huh? We traded Michalek in a pure salary dump to make sure we had the cap space for Parise and Suter if we managed to sign both.

Okay. Sorry KIRK, I made a mistake and now I sound like a complete moron with everything I say.

I'm saying if we could've traded Michalek for Foligno, we could've cleared room on our third line for him by dropping TK.

 

[KIRK]

Okay. Sorry KIRK, I made a mistake and now I sound like a complete moron with everything I say.

I'm saying if we could've traded Michalek for Foligno, we could've cleared room on our third line for him by dropping TK.

Ok, that I follow.

However, it wouldn't have been necessary to drop anyone UNLESS both Parise and Suter had signed in Pittsburgh.

The point was to mock Shero and those (not you, as my post was about Foligno was in reply to another Shero critic) who defend him for having gone all in for Parise. Good, I'm glad he did, but he had no plan B. People said 'Semin wouldn't have been a plan B'. No, he wouldn't have. But, Foligno might have been part of one. And, again Bryan Murray traded him for Methot a week after asking about Michalek and being told by Shero that he (Shero) wouldn't take back a NHL salary.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ok, that I follow.

However, it wouldn't have been necessary to drop anyone UNLESS both Parise and Suter had signed in Pittsburgh.

The point was to mock Shero and those (not you, as my post was about Foligno was in reply to another Shero critic) who defend him for having gone all in for Parise. Good, I'm glad he did, but he had no plan B. People said 'Semin wouldn't have been a plan B'. No, he wouldn't have. But, Foligno might have been part of one.

It is interesting, because I remember watching Foligno with the Sens and absolutely being stunned they traded him for Methot.

I guess when people complain about Shero, its moves like those that he is reluctant to make. The Sens absolutely needed a second pairing d-man with defensive upside and they traded a shiny piece for him.

It would be like Shero parting with a player like Bennett or Dupuis. Utility players that are successful at what they do, but are a dime a dozen. The question is who is really trading size in the NHL right now for a cheap price?

I still would like to see Shero kept, but the way the physicality on the third and fourth lines have completely disappeared in less than two years is just insane. Hell, I'd say our physicality has disappeared from the entire line-up. Tyler Kennedy would essentially be the best winger in our bottom six right now.

At least Sutter looks like he has turned a corner.

 

[KIRK]

It is interesting, because I remember watching Foligno with the Sens and absolutely being stunned they traded him for Methot.

I guess when people complain about Shero, its moves like those that he is reluctant to make. The Sens absolutely needed a second pairing d-man with defensive upside and they traded a shiny piece for him.

It would be like Shero parting with a player like Bennett or Dupuis. Utility players that are successful at what they do, but are a dime a dozen. The question is who is really trading size in the NHL right now for a cheap price?

I still would like to see Shero kept, but the way the physicality on the third and fourth lines have completely disappeared in less than two years is just insane. Hell, I'd say our physicality has disappeared from the entire line-up. Tyler Kennedy would essentially be the best winger in our bottom six right now.

At least Sutter looks like he has turned a corner.

IMO, the bigger problem is how he's built this top six. Statistically sweet during the regular season or in an easy playoff round for the most part.

But, it's Sid and Geno and a collection of leeches. Jokinen, much as I busted on him for not doing **** unless he had all day and space, actually did something those times it was handed to him on a silver platter. Kunitz? He's still skating around the perimeter. What I'd give for the statistically inferior Kunitz of 2009, the guy we got from Anaheim who did stuff out there to help Sid get to his game. As for Neal, whatever he was as a two way hockey player . . . between that first suspension he got in Dallas and being traded to Pittsburgh, it's gone. He's a one trick pony. It really was so pathetic tonight that I screamed at the TV 'what, you want Malkin to finish it too'. And, then there's Gibbons. Only thing sadder than thinking about him in the top six is realizing that it would've been Dupuis if all was well.

That needs to be addressed. Jagr on one line and KLS or a variation thereof was enough to overcome no name goaltenders, a **** defense, and an even ******** bottom six to be every bit as good as this team is in terms of playoff achievement.

Build around Sid and Geno first. I'd love Martin to tutor the defense. Sutter is a nice 3C. How about for 4M? As far as I'm concerned, you have to give to get and you have to prioritize in a cap era, and getting for Sid and Geno needs to be the priority at long last. They've suffered enough, and they deserve better.

 

[The Tang]

The point was to mock Shero and those (not you, as my post was about Foligno was in reply to another Shero critic) who defend him for having gone all in for Parise. Good, I'm glad he did, but he had no plan B.

That's another of Shero's problems: he likes the big names. Not that they don't help, but he's constructed such a top heavy team that, like anything else that is top heavy, it just keeps falling over from lack of support at the bottom.

 

[Channelcat]

Firing Bylsma wont help. In my opinion he is one of the best coaches in the league and they would be taking a step backwards. This team still lacks depth, which is a hard problem to address when you are paying 18M to two players. That being said, I think there are things Shero can do, and I am thinking specifically of Fluery and Neal. As much as I like both of those guys, I think they must find better value.

 

[SEALBound]

Firing Bylsma wont help. In my opinion he is one of the best coaches in the league and they would be taking a step backwards. This team still lacks depth, which is a hard problem to address when you are paying 18M to two players. That being said, I think there are things Shero can do, and I am thinking specifically of Fluery and Neal. As much as I like both of those guys, I think they must find better value.

You dont watch any Penguins games do you?

 

[joeyjake5]

To affect change on this team, the first thing that must happen is to get rid of DP and RS and the rest of the coaching staff. This will cost $6MM plus. Is Lemieux willing to do this. Otherwise, year 6 after the cup will be like the previous 5. Also, Scuds must go. A lot think he is tradeable, he is not and he will cost you another $6MM in a regular buy-out. . Will Lemieux eat a total of $12MM to improve this team. I don't think so. Money talks.

 

[hoyster]

Do you guys think that Halak or Hiller would be an upgrade over Fleury? Only UFA goalie that I would take over MAF is Miller.

 

[Shrimper]

From the other thread that was closed;

Just imagine a bottom line of;

Komarov-Vitale-McClement

Not that Toronto will let McClement go.

 

[The Tang]

Do you guys think that Halak or Hiller would be an upgrade over Fleury? Only UFA goalie that I would take over MAF is Miller.

Hiller maybe. i think if Halak was the answer, St. Louis wouldn't have traded him. it's a big red flag for me.

 

[BumFortyOne]

Do you guys think that Halak or Hiller would be an upgrade over Fleury? Only UFA goalie that I would take over MAF is Miller.

I'm pretty interested to see what happens on the goalie front. At this stage, I would probably dump MAF just to get a clean break from the playoff failures of the past. He wasn't the problem specifically this year, but I think I'd probably rather go into the playoffs with an unknown than be asking the same questions about whether Fleury can be relied upon.

The question then is whether it's actually possible to upgrade the goalie position in this offseason and who is available. Maybe go after Reimer? Hiller or Halak might be acceptable on a shorter contract. Miller would be pretty expensive and maybe not as sure a bet as once thought.

 

[SuburbanRhythm]

Didn't read through all of this, but...

Sill-Vitale-Payerl should be the 4th line next year.

 

[KIRK]

Didn't read through all of this, but...

Sill-Vitale-Payerl should be the 4th line next year.

It could've been 2/3 of the 4th line this year.

I remember a few of us talking Sill-Vitale-Scrabbles.

 

[Frederick Stanley]

Time for Part III.