Post-Game Talk: PDSF - Game #2 - Kings @ Sharks - 7:00pm II

[Juxtaposer]

Team plays poorly, argue about who is the worst.

Team plays well, argue about who is the best.

Statement: Brent Burns is not the savior.

Discuss.

 

[Timo Time]

Team plays poorly, argue about who is the worst.

Team plays well, argue about who is the best.

Why am I laughing so hard at this? San Jose typical.

 

[Juxtaposer]

But seriously, even though Thornton vs Marleau debates are supposedly about who's the best, they always end up very negative. Really bums me out.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Brent Burns needs to play better. He's been a mixed bag. Unleash the beast.

 

[Barrie22]

Thornton and marleau both suck. Mike brown is the star of the team.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

To call Thornton a "specialist" isn't accurate at all.

Is it really? In terms of what he brings to the ice, it's his vision, passing, and puck possession including faceoffs. These are all vital things to have if you can get them obviously but what beyond that does Thornton bring in terms of what he does on the ice? His defensive play has never been good on the whole of it. He's good at back-checking and getting the puck back but that's really about it. In terms of defensive zone play, he is spotty. He doesn't shoot the puck much so he's not really a goal scorer which is more out of his personal choice than ability. He plays a specific role on the ice and always has. Relatively, compared to someone like Marleau, I think it's a fair statement.

At this point in their careers Marleau is the better player, but Marleau has never been one of the best players in the league like Joe has. He's really never reached that level of play.

Its no coincidence that Marleau started putting up career numbers as soon as Joe was traded here and took over as the #1 Center.

It actually is coincidence that Marleau started putting up career numbers because he was on his way to doing that before Thornton even showed up. Certainly, Jumbo had a higher peak in offensive production but that's about it. In terms of being a better player, even during his peak years, he was very much limited to one side of the puck. He was more of a goal scorer then as well as the elite passer. He wasn't a puck hunter defensively or really anything at all defensively.

Would you take Sergei Fedorov, Brian Trottier, Steve Yzerman, or Peter Forsberg (all, by the way, much more "well-rounded", as well as talented, players than Marleau) over Wayne Gretzky?

Besides, Thornton is not a specialist in the way that an Andreychuk is.

Marleau is the ultimate complementary player. But Thornton is a franchise player. Thornton has been the best player on his team for how many years in this league? Marleu has held that title maybe once...

That's not really a fair comparison given the substantial difference in eras. You can win in those days off the back of mostly offensive only talents backed by defensive role players. You can't do that anymore. And it is certainly debateable how long Thornton has been the best player on this team. There is an argument to be made that Marleau has been the best player on this team since McLellan took over but I put more value on guys that are called upon in all situations more than I do guys that put up quality numbers. Thornton is certainly more productive but Marleau helps them win games more, imo.

 

[hohosaregood]

But seriously, even though Thornton vs Marleau debates are supposedly about who's the best, they always end up very negative. Really bums me out.

My end goal is to convince the world that Marleau and Thornton are scrubs through the use of internet discussion boards then nobody but us would want them.

 

[Mafoofoo]

Lots of self love

Man you're just pumping your own tires and defending yourself left and right. I don't see Jumbo doing the same. I guess he's better and knows it.

Q.E.D

 

[LilLeeroy]

Is it really? In terms of what he brings to the ice, it's his vision, passing, and puck possession including faceoffs. These are all vital things to have if you can get them obviously but what beyond that does Thornton bring in terms of what he does on the ice?

Unless they make a new rule where hockey is played with multiple pucks, puck possession is a vital part to dominating the game.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Marleau is a Selke-caliber defensive player... If you don't believe me believe Elliotte Friedman or Mike Babcock...

That seems so strange, I always thought that Thornton was very good defensively. What is it does he not hustle or does he just lack the instincts on defense? Its just strange to hear a winger be great at defense rather than a top caliber center.

 

[Kcoyote3]

And Marleau was worst among all players in the top 9 in plus/minus besides Matt Nieto this year. But I've learned to never trust that stat and let other people convince me of player's abilities.

 

[Audio Outlaw]

Burns hasn't been that bad. He has just been playing the body and not the puck IMO.

 

[hohosaregood]

That seems so strange, I always thought that Thornton was very good defensively. What is it does he not hustle or does he just lack the instincts on defense? Its just strange to hear a winger be great at defense rather than a top caliber center.

It's not that Thornton lacks defensive instincts. It's that Marleau's defensive instincts are way beyond Thornton's. I think Thornton's probably a good guy for a 1 on 1 but he's not as good at the whole d-zone coverage because, from my POV, he focuses hard on a target especially on the backcheck.

 

[Juxtaposer]

That seems so strange, I always thought that Thornton was very good defensively. What is it does he not hustle or does he just lack the instincts on defense? Its just strange to hear a winger be great at defense rather than a top caliber center.

Thornton has top-notch hockey IQ; it's his speed, low tempo, and lack of high-end agility that hurts him defensively (it's not a problem when he has the puck).

If you pay attention to Marleau, really follow him all game, you'll notice just how flawless he is in his own zone when the puck is around him. He is a very detail-oriented player.

 

[Leidi J]

That seems so strange, I always thought that Thornton was very good defensively. What is it does he not hustle or does he just lack the instincts on defense? Its just strange to hear a winger be great at defense rather than a top caliber center.

No one said Thornton was not very good defensively. He's good. It's just that Marleau is excellent. Underrated part of his game by most for sure.

 

[SJSharksfan39]

Brent Burns needs to play better. He's been a mixed bag. Unleash the beast.

Brent Burns needs to stop hitting the post. He could have been a goal scoring leader on this team, at least, but how many posts has he hit?

 

[Barrie22]

Brent Burns needs to stop hitting the post. He could have been a goal scoring leader on this team, at least, but how many posts has he hit?

Every one in every game, so 492 posts. Well that number does seem close to the real number lol

 

[Timos Death Stare]

Thornton has top-notch hockey IQ; it's his speed, low tempo, and lack of high-end agility that hurts him defensively (it's not a problem when he has the puck).

If you pay attention to Marleau, really follow him all game, you'll notice just how flawless he is in his own zone when the puck is around him. He is a very detail-oriented player.

And Marleau's stride.... anyone who plays hockey should be in awe of that power. He gets to top speed so fast and effortlessly.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

Thornton has top-notch hockey IQ; it's his speed, low tempo, and lack of high-end agility that hurts him defensively (it's not a problem when he has the puck).

If you pay attention to Marleau, really follow him all game, you'll notice just how flawless he is in his own zone when the puck is around him. He is a very detail-oriented player.

Thanks for the explanation on his defensive tendencies, has his defense, or his intensity on defense dropped off steadily with age, or has he always been like this?

 

[Barrie22]

Thanks for the explanation on his defensive tendencies, has his defense, or his intensity on defense dropped off steadily with age, or has he always been like this?

Its gotten better with age.

 

[Mafoofoo]

And Marleau's stride.... anyone who plays hockey should be in awe of that power. He gets to top speed so fast and effortlessly.

I remember sometime this season how Marleau was being chased by Duchene and in like two to three strides he completely dusted him. **** was crazy.

 

[Barrie22]

I remember sometime this season how Marleau was being chased by Duchene and in like two to three strides he completely dusted him. **** was crazy.

But but but main boards said marleau was slow.

 

[matt trick]

I remember sometime this season how Marleau was being chased by Duchene and in like two to three strides he completely dusted him. **** was crazy.

Yeah, I remember seeing that and thinking it shouldn't have been possible. I want to say he smoked Bouwmeester at one point this year as well- who has a similar effortless stride.

Hard to say if those are one offs, or he is legitimately faster, but there are few players who pull away from those two in any situation.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Unless they make a new rule where hockey is played with multiple pucks, puck possession is a vital part to dominating the game.

I take it you didn't bother to even read the next sentence? lol

 

[Guelph Sharks]

I just hope that the 4th line doesn't take one or two really dumb penalties in game 3.
I can see the refs being tighter tonight, after letting them go in game 2.

Sharks fans have such a complex...fighting amongst ourselves around who is better on the team...JT or Patty. Just sit back and enjoy two elite players, that will hopefully get the Cup, and find themselves in the HoF some day.