Paul Martin

Shady Machine

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Aug 6, 2010
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Because that is not something that a GM should do. If you sign the guy to a 1 year contract in July and then force him to waive his NMC and trade him in a December, why would players want to take discounts to come to Pittsburgh? That seems like a really shady thing to do (and I know shady). Why even sign him in the first place?
 

Boocock

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Feb 3, 2007
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Because that is not something that a GM should do. If you sign the guy to a 1 year contract in July and then force him to waive his NMC and trade him in a December, why would players want to take discounts to come to Pittsburgh? That seems like a really shady thing to do (and I know shady). Why even sign him in the first place?
Spot on. GM rep is important. We don't want free agents to avoid the Penguins.
 

drpepper

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Dec 10, 2013
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Eriksson is in the wrong system.

Would he waive to go there.

Their PK is atrocious.

I wouldn't give up any assets to find out if the Pens system is the "right" system for Eriksson especially to BOS.

Why would Paul Martin waive to go to CGY? On the other side, unless Calgary asks Glencross to go, I doubt Glencross is going to ask to be traded. So, the Pens would have to offer a package that would motivate both CGY and Glencross. Somehow I doubt a pending UFA who won't re-sign in CGY is going to motivate them.

STL's defense is good, and funnily enough PK =/= defense. Judging by the games and STL's whole team defense, its a coaching and structure issue. Tony Granato in STL would solve that problem. A GM spending assets for Martin to solve the PK is stupid especially as penalty killing isn't Martin's strong suit.
 

AjaxTelamon

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Jul 8, 2011
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Martin is the piece to trade to look for some assets, Scuds to just clear up cap space and a roster spot. I'd like to see them both gone this year if possible. I would have to assume Ehrhoff would not want to come back, without being used on the PP much here. But he's the one I'd want back. He's played very well lately in all situations.

Martin is moveable, of course. I'd look at the west coast teams.
 

Boocock

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Feb 3, 2007
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I wouldn't give up any assets to find out if the Pens system is the "right" system for Eriksson especially to BOS.
He has 10 points in 19 games on a team that is ranked 18th in goals per game. Give him a break. He's a solid player and a former 70 pointer.

Why would Paul Martin waive to go to CGY? On the other side, unless Calgary asks Glencross to go, I doubt Glencross is going to ask to be traded. So, the Pens would have to offer a package that would motivate both CGY and Glencross. Somehow I doubt a pending UFA who won't re-sign in CGY is going to motivate them.
Why wouldn't Martin re-sign in Calgary? That's exactly the type of team that will give him money. And why wouldn't Glencross waive for a chance to play in Pittsburgh?

STL's defense is good, and funnily enough PK =/= defense. Judging by the games and STL's whole team defense, its a coaching and structure issue. Tony Granato in STL would solve that problem. A GM spending assets for Martin to solve the PK is stupid especially as penalty killing isn't Martin's strong suit.
Yes, St. Louis is the #1 team in GAA. But, their PK isn't great. Martin is 8th in the league in SH TOI. He'd be an asset to that team.
 

drpepper

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Dec 10, 2013
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He has 10 points in 19 games on a team that is ranked 18th in goals per game. Give him a break. He's a solid player and a former 70 pointer.

Why wouldn't Martin re-sign in Calgary? That's exactly the type of team that will give him money. And why wouldn't Glencross waive for a chance to play in Pittsburgh?

Yes, St. Louis is the #1 team in GAA. But, their PK isn't great. Martin is 8th in the league in SH TOI. He'd be an asset to that team.

Eriksson hasn't looked the same after his concussions. Again, maybe he gets it back, but I wouldn't give up assets to find out.

Unless he's drastically changed his mind, Martin signed in Pittsburgh to contend for a Stanley Cup. Calgary as good as a run as they are having now is not contending for a Stanley Cup in the next few years unless there is a minor miracle. So, I doubt money will be enough to sign in Calgary. Also, Glencross really loves Calgary; he has a ranch there. He wouldn't be coming to Pittsburgh unless he wants to go to a contender (which I have never read anything saying that he does) or unless Pittsburgh offers Calgary a decent enough package and Calgary asks him to waive. Calgary wants futures and prospects; not defenders on expiring contracts.

Martin would be an asset to most teams. You continue the trend of missing the point. The point is that they don't need more defenders. Why would a team trade assets for something that they don't need? They have a good defense and need a better PK system. Martin doesn't bring them a better PK system. Also, Martin may play a lot time short-handed which has more to do with the Penguins racking up PIM, but penalty killing negates his primary strengths in 1v1 stick on puck defending and puck moving.
 

Boocock

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Feb 3, 2007
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Eriksson hasn't looked the same after his concussions. Again, maybe he gets it back, but I wouldn't give up assets to find out.
I'd give up Martin for him, easily.

Unless he's drastically changed his mind, Martin signed in Pittsburgh to contend for a Stanley Cup. Calgary as good as a run as they are having now is not contending for a Stanley Cup in the next few years unless there is a minor miracle. So, I doubt money will be enough to sign in Calgary. Also, Glencross really loves Calgary; he has a ranch there. He wouldn't be coming to Pittsburgh unless he wants to go to a contender (which I have never read anything saying that he does) or unless Pittsburgh offers Calgary a decent enough package and Calgary asks him to waive. Calgary wants futures and prospects; not defenders on expiring contracts.
I'm not at all convinced that any of these factors will matter over the long haul. First of all, I'm not at all convinced that Calgary cannot continue their move towards the playoffs. Martin, realizing his time is done, may want to become familiar with the coaching staff and organization on an up-and-coming team. He'd have a role there and a future. It certainly wouldn't be the worst option. Calgary is on the right track. You could argue that it might be comparable to Gonchar's decision to head to Ottawa in 2010, but that might be a bit of a stretch. The move would benefit Martin. Furthermore, an expiring UFA isn't necessarily a bad asset to acquire. Teams will often re-sign players they acquire during the season. It doesn't always happen, but it can.

Players fall in love with cities and teams, but there's no reason Glencross would have to sell his ranch if he left Calgary. Moreover, hockey players want to win. The Stanley Cup is precious to them. If Glencross was told that he could play for a major contender, do you honestly think he would just say "No thanks" without a second thought? This is a professional sports league.

The only valid counter-argument here is the fact that Glencross is such an integral piece for the Flames.

Martin would be an asset to most teams. You continue the trend of missing the point. The point is that they don't need more defenders. Why would a team trade assets for something that they don't need? They have a good defense and need a better PK system. Martin doesn't bring them a better PK system. Also, Martin may play a lot time short-handed which has more to do with the Penguins racking up PIM, but penalty killing negates his primary strengths in 1v1 stick on puck defending and puck moving.
To begin, I certainly "get" your point. I just disagree with you. There's a big difference.

Martin would be an asset for the penalty kill of the St. Louis Blues and he would improve their penalty kill play and could also help their even-strength transition play as well. However, to focus on the subject of the penalty kill, you eventually have to wonder if the personnel are the real issue.

With the St. Louis Blues, this clearly can't be the case. After all, Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo are high-level, minute-eating d-men. In fact, both of those players take 31.4 and 32.3 shifts per game, respectively. Their #3 guy, Shattenkirk, takes 29.8 shifts per game. Their ice times are as follows:

Pietrangelo: 25:43, 3:28PK
Bouwmeester: 23:41, 3:18PK
Shattenkirk: 22:31, 1:57PK

Their bottom three defensemen have recorded the following TOI/G numbers:

Jackman: 16:30, 2:06PK
Gunnarsson: 14:43
Lindbohm: 14:05

These figures are unsustainable. Simply put, St. Louis has three elite d-men and three players that are carried by these elite talents.

The Blues need another minute-eating d-man to take the pressure off of their three stars. You don't want to take away PP time from Shattenkirk(3:32PP) or Pietrangelo (2:24PP) (Bouwmeester checks in at 1:51 per game), so you bring in a player like Martin to eat some PK time because Martin, among other things, is also a PK specialist.

Now, let's take a look another Western Conference team: the Chicago Blackhawks:
Keith: 25:41/game, 2:35PK
Niklas Hjalmarsson: 21:48/game, 2:45PK
Brent Seabrook: 21:40/game, 2:01PK
Johnny Oduya: 20:20/game, 2:07PK

That ice time is much more evenly dispersed and can be maintained over a season and into the playoffs. They have the defensive depth to take on and get through St. Louis.

Here are Paul Martin's ice time stats:
22:16/game
3:50PK
1:14PP

At 20 minutes per game, including 2:30 on the PK, Martin would be an asset. The Blues need another minute-eating defender.
 

Alklha

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Sep 7, 2011
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At 20 minutes per game, including 2:30 on the PK, Martin would be an asset. The Blues need another minute-eating defender.

No, we don't. Carl Gunnarsson had hip surgery after last season and missed all of camp with a new team. He is getting eased back in, and isn't getting PK time at the moment. He will. He'll get up to around 20 minutes per game, and he'll get up over 2 minutes of PK time per game.

And despite our PK struggles to start the season, we have the best defensive record in the League. We don't have any reason to be forcing anything at the moment.
 

Boocock

Registered User
Feb 3, 2007
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No, we don't. Carl Gunnarsson had hip surgery after last season and missed all of camp with a new team. He is getting eased back in, and isn't getting PK time at the moment. He will. He'll get up to around 20 minutes per game, and he'll get up over 2 minutes of PK time per game.

And despite our PK struggles to start the season, we have the best defensive record in the League. We don't have any reason to be forcing anything at the moment.
I can see where you're coming from, but Martin would be a huge upgrade at the #4 d-man spot for the Blues. I don't think highly of Gunnarsson. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, you have the best defensive record in the league. But, how long can you expect for Jake Allen and Brian Elliott to maintain save percentages above .930?

Trading for Martin wouldn't necessarily need to be "forcing" it. He wouldn't require a return of a guy like TJ Oshie. Hypothetically, if Gunnarsson's hip went awry, what would you give for him at the deadline?

PS: Thanks for coming to the Pens board to respond. Super envious of the STL line. Lehtera is a stud.
 

jmelm

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Feb 27, 2002
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Martin will be neither traded nor re-signed.


While I acknowledge there is a good chance of this, that would be really bad asset management.


As I've said, I know Martin is a really good player who will help our chances this season, but ultimately I don't believe he will be the difference between us winning anything or not. I would rather have a 1st round pick or really good prospect, if we can't get a good roster player, in a trade for PM.
 

Klifton

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May 30, 2014
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Wahoo, Nebraska
I'm going to go one step further down the trade Martin road. I say, (now that we have cap to play with,) we retain some of his salary in order to drive up the return. What is Martin at 3M worth to a contender? how about 2.5? Even if we retain 50%, that would still give us about 6M (after replacing him with Harrington,) to spend.

So, what kind of a return would we get for Martin at 2.5M?
 

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