Confirmed with Link: Paul Fenton to be named GM of Minnesota Wild

[Dr Jan Itor]

Put the team in Vancouver, does JT still go there?

I have fewer doubts about that. Or he goes to a different team that has young pieces in place. Or stays on Long Island to play with Barzal.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

I want to make the Playoffs. Even getting blown up in the Playoffs means that I got to watch good hockey for most of the season (at least in non-bizzaro world years like this).

The fans that want a rebuild and a few years of bad hockey and high picks aren't (for the most part) the ones that are dropping thousands of dollars a year on season tickets. TV fans wants are second tier compared to STHs wants. Less STH and no more sellout crowds means less money made at the arena. No Playoffs means more lost revenue.

Losing teams also have a harder time getting quality UFAs to sign with them. Minnesota doesn't have much going for it to get UFAs (other than #oneofus) as it is. Making it less attractive by being a bottom feeder isn't the smartest idea.

I think this team was given more than a proper amount of time to see what they can do but to say that the wheels came off is understating it. The players played their way down this path, may as well embrace it now. And hope for a lot of luck.

 

[Wabit]

Is this about what he would get on the open market or about the fact that he could have gone UFA and instead signed with a team full of good young players so that he could win a Cup? What's the point?

And just to get back to Paul Fenton, hadn't checked in on Iowa recently: Michael Kapla, the return for Ryan 'remember him' Murphy, has 5 assists in 7 games! Pretty not bad!

Well you're saying that the only reason he picked the Jets is because they have young talent. Disregarding that he's lived there for the last 8 years and they threw a boat load of money at him. He has ties to the area.

I'm wondering why this future UFA signs with MN in 3-5 years when they have just some young talent and there is no other reason? There is no tax benefits (like FLA), there isn't a bright lights/big city draw, no storied team history, not team that has been close to a Cup in the last few years (we've been tanking afterall to get these high quality players), this isn't LA fun in the sun type of weather.

 

[Wabit]

I have fewer doubts about that. Or he goes to a different team that has young pieces in place. Or stays on Long Island to play with Barzal.

Oh, so it's not just the quality young players that took him to Tor (at a discounted rate even)? That opens up a lot more teams to where JT could have ended up, doesn't it?

 

[Bazeek]

Oh, so it's not just the quality young players that took him to Tor (at a discounted rate even)? That opens up a lot more teams to where JT could have ended up, doesn't it?

I'm having a really hard time following this debate, but is anyone saying it's ever just one thing that draws a UFA? Whether it's prospect pools or geography or whatever else.

 

[Wabit]

I'm having a really hard time following this debate, but is anyone saying it's ever just one thing that draws a UFA? Whether it's prospect pools or geography or whatever else.

Well getting to play with young high end talent supposedly going to be the draw in 3-5 years for a high end UFA(s) to sign in MN.

 

[Bazeek]

Well getting to play with young high end talent supposedly going to be the draw in 3-5 years for a high end UFA(s) to sign in MN.

THE draw, or A draw? Everything that's been thrown around in here strike me as secondary factors in most UFA signings; the primary thing is usually money and term. I wouldn't build a 3-5 year plan around landing free agents based on an awesome prospect pool, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a selling point of sorts. I'm not sure that I've seen anyone arguing more than that, but I am kind of struggling to follow the arguments

 

[Wabit]

THE draw, or A draw? Everything that's been thrown around in here strike me as secondary factors in most UFA signings; the primary thing is usually money and term. I wouldn't build a 3-5 year plan around landing free agents based on an awesome prospect pool, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a selling point of sorts. I'm not sure that I've seen anyone arguing more than that, but I am kind of struggling to follow the arguments

Be bad and get top young talent for a few years, then surround that young talent with a a high end UFA or two is what fans are asking for. I can see the being bad part and getting 3 straight top-5 picks. I'm just trying to find out why anyone who has their pick of the league would take MN over any other team in a similar circumstance.

The only selling point I've come up with to separate MN from any other team in the same situation, is they have ties to the area. It worked for Tor, but the other teams like Col, Jets, CGY, Buf, EDM can't get a decent UFA to sign with them.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

Fenton must not think it's a crazy idea because he is clearly trying to create room under the cap.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

THE draw, or A draw? Everything that's been thrown around in here strike me as secondary factors in most UFA signings; the primary thing is usually money and term. I wouldn't build a 3-5 year plan around landing free agents based on an awesome prospect pool, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a selling point of sorts. I'm not sure that I've seen anyone arguing more than that, but I am kind of struggling to follow the arguments

Me too, and I'm actively involved.

 

[Bazeek]

Be bad and get top young talent for a few years, then surround that young talent with a a high end UFA or two is what fans are asking for. I can see the being bad part and getting 3 straight top-5 picks. I'm just trying to find out why anyone who has their pick of the league would take MN over any other team in a similar circumstance.

The only selling point I've come up with to separate MN from any other team in the same situation, is they have ties to the area. It worked for Tor, but the other teams like Col, Jets, CGY, Buf, EDM can't get a decent UFA to sign with them.

I gotcha, and I think I more or less agree. Building a team around whatever core you assembled from the Tank Years draft picks definitely seems like the most precarious part of a rebuild. It's probably be the biggest reason I'm leery of one.

UFA's would inevitably be a part of that step, and I'm not sure that ties to the area are the only thing Minnesota would have going for it. It really depends on the UFA and what their priorities are. Even if it was the only thing we had to leverage though, there are quite a few ways to develop some sort of ties to the state at this point. Growing up here, playing college hockey here, having family here, training here in the offseason, knowing someone that plays here. If you got Pierre McGuire drunk it'd be a lot of fun to play 6 Degrees of Kevin Minnesota with him.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Be bad and get top young talent for a few years, then surround that young talent with a a high end UFA or two is what fans are asking for. I can see the being bad part and getting 3 straight top-5 picks. I'm just trying to find out why anyone who has their pick of the league would take MN over any other team in a similar circumstance.

The only selling point I've come up with to separate MN from any other team in the same situation, is they have ties to the area. It worked for Tor, but the other teams like Col, Jets, CGY, Buf, EDM can't get a decent UFA to sign with them.

All of this might be varying levels of true, but it's still not a good argument to keep getting kicked in the crotch every time the 1st round of the playoffs come around.

 

[Wabit]

Fenton must not think it's a crazy idea because he is clearly trying to create room under the cap.

This team has made the Playoffs the last 6 years. It is still a selling point he can use to get a UFA by saying it as just a bad year (not a great selling point, but it's something). GMPF isn't building for a tank, he's building to stay in this same yearly Playoff team, but not good enough to do any damage once the postseason starts.

I don't see Coyle as a cap move, he was worth his contract. Coyle was just a player (I'm guessing) GMPF didn't see in his longterm plans for the team. He hadn't done much lately to help the team be a Playoff team this year, so he dumped him now instead of next year.

Coyle's play over the years is a lot like MN's seasons. He'll play great for awhile and then disappear for a month; he wont shoot, can't pass, played with the puck too much, doesn't go to the dirty areas, etc; then something will click and he'll play great again for a little while.

 

[saywut]

Guess we're seeing now why Fletcher never shook up the team last year or before the expansion draft. Liked his guys more than the rest of the league. Can't say that he was wrong either.

Huh, its been 17 months since I posted here, didn't seem like that long.

 

[DANOZ28]

welcome back saywut , any suggestions for our new gm?

 

[Wabit]

All of this might be varying levels of true, but it's still not a good argument to keep getting kicked in the crotch every time the 1st round of the playoffs come around.

You're in the Playoffs and gave the fans (me) a lot of quality hockey to watch (at least in a normal year) along the way. I'll take that good regular season of hockey and a crotch kick at the end over a season of getting kicked in the crotch most every night for an undetermined amount of years. It's a much happier existence for me to be mad at the team for laying an egg, than it is to be mad at a team for winning 7-1 because it hurts their chances at getting the best pick.

I only made it about halfway through the McDavid/Eichel draft year of Sabres hockey, and I used to watch almost every game. I'm not wanting to do the same thing with the Wild. I'd still watch random games, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dvr or catch them live on tv.

I'm not of the either "worst or first and anything in between is failure" line of thinking.

Poking holes in this tank and complete/proper rebuild idea is just as easy as it is to poke holes in the make the Playoffs and see what happens idea.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

This team has made the Playoffs the last 6 years. It is still a selling point he can use to get a UFA by saying it as just a bad year (not a great selling point, but it's something). GMPF isn't building for a tank, he's building to stay in this same yearly Playoff team, but not good enough to do any damage once the postseason starts.

I don't see Coyle as a cap move, he was worth his contract. Coyle was just a player (I'm guessing) GMPF didn't see in his longterm plans for the team. He hadn't done much lately to help the team be a Playoff team this year, so he dumped him now instead of next year.

Coyle's play over the years is a lot like MN's seasons. He'll play great for awhile and then disappear for a month; he wont shoot, can't pass, played with the puck too much, doesn't go to the dirty areas, etc; then something will click and he'll play great again for a little while.

This quote was in one of the articles on The Athletic after the trade. Made some sense but who know? Guess we will need to see what else he does.

“It gives them room for free agency,” observed one Eastern Conference executive. “They’re a team that was a playoff team but they never really found a way to break through in a meaningful way. I think, (with Fenton) as a first-year guy, this is the right time to try this.”

 

[Wabit]

This quote was in one of the articles on The Athletic after the trade. Made some sense but who know? Guess we will need to see what else he does.

“It gives them room for free agency,” observed one Eastern Conference executive. “They’re a team that was a playoff team but they never really found a way to break through in a meaningful way. I think, (with Fenton) as a first-year guy, this is the right time to try this.”

Oh I don't doubt he'll try his hand at landing one of the big fish in this year's UFA pool. My guess is he ends up with Hayes or way overpays Simmonds because he fanned on everyone else.

 

[Dickie Dunn]

You're in the Playoffs and gave the fans (me) a lot of quality hockey to watch (at least in a normal year) along the way. I'll take that good regular season of hockey and a crotch kick at the end over a season of getting kicked in the crotch most every night for an undetermined amount of years. It's a much happier existence for me to be mad at the team for laying an egg, than it is to be mad at a team for winning 7-1 because it hurts their chances at getting the best pick.

I only made it about halfway through the McDavid/Eichel draft year of Sabres hockey, and I used to watch almost every game. I'm not wanting to do the same thing with the Wild. I'd still watch random games, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dvr or catch them live on tv.

I'm not of the either "worst or first and anything in between is failure" line of thinking.

Poking holes in this tank and complete/proper rebuild idea is just as easy as it is to poke holes in the make the Playoffs and see what happens idea.

Not disagreeing with you, just an opinion but it's hard to win without high end talent, it's hard to get high end talent without drafting high and it's hard to draft high without taking some lumps. I'm willing to try it the other way because honestly, I wish they would have done that from the beginning.....build through the draft and create an organization known for high end drafting and development.

 

[Bazeek]

You're in the Playoffs and gave the fans (me) a lot of quality hockey to watch (at least in a normal year) along the way. I'll take that good regular season of hockey and a crotch kick at the end over a season of getting kicked in the crotch most every night for an undetermined amount of years. It's a much happier existence for me to be mad at the team for laying an egg, than it is to be mad at a team for winning 7-1 because it hurts their chances at getting the best pick.

I only made it about halfway through the McDavid/Eichel draft year of Sabres hockey, and I used to watch almost every game. I'm not wanting to do the same thing with the Wild. I'd still watch random games, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dvr or catch them live on tv.

I'm not of the either "worst or first and anything in between is failure" line of thinking.

Poking holes in this tank and complete/proper rebuild idea is just as easy as it is to poke holes in the make the Playoffs and see what happens idea.

It seems like there are two different (but similar) "tank" scenarios here.

1.) The multi-year tank, which is something that some fans are calling for but isn't realistically on the radar. At least not based on any signals from the front office.
2.) The 2-month tank, which is just trying to take what's already a turd of a year and turn it into something to look forward to for the next few years.

1 isn't something I'm really on board with, but 2? I won't actively cheer for them to lose and I'll enjoy whatever bright spots there are between now and April, but I won't exactly be disappointed if they're horrible. And I hope Fenton doesn't consider making the team competitive this year a priority.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You're in the Playoffs and gave the fans (me) a lot of quality hockey to watch (at least in a normal year) along the way. I'll take that good regular season of hockey and a crotch kick at the end over a season of getting kicked in the crotch most every night for an undetermined amount of years. It's a much happier existence for me to be mad at the team for laying an egg, than it is to be mad at a team for winning 7-1 because it hurts their chances at getting the best pick.

I only made it about halfway through the McDavid/Eichel draft year of Sabres hockey, and I used to watch almost every game. I'm not wanting to do the same thing with the Wild. I'd still watch random games, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dvr or catch them live on tv.

I'm not of the either "worst or first and anything in between is failure" line of thinking.

Poking holes in this tank and complete/proper rebuild idea is just as easy as it is to poke holes in the make the Playoffs and see what happens idea.

True.

I've haven't been pro-"tank" until very, very recently and it has a lot to do with the team that we've all seen the past couple of weeks and the team that I'm suspecting that we will be watching for the remainder of the season. They season hasn't had a whole lot of good hockey anyways, so why not just grit our teeth for another 5 weeks and see if we can get some real talent?

Also I'm a little bit confused. You've been an advocate of not paying Spurgeon and Granlund their new (prospective) contracts, but if you trade them, what exactly do you think you're getting and what do you think would happen to this team if they weren't on the roster and weren't replaced with equal talent?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

It seems like there are two different (but similar) "tank" scenarios here.

1.) The multi-year tank, which is something that some fans are calling for but isn't realistically on the radar. At least not based on any signals from the front office.
2.) The 2-month tank, which is just trying to take what's already a turd of a year and turn it into something to look forward to for the next few years.

1 isn't something I'm really on board with, but 2? I won't actively cheer for them to lose and I'll enjoy whatever bright spots there are between now and April, but I won't exactly be disappointed if they're horrible. And I hope Fenton doesn't consider making the team competitive this year a priority.

This guy gets it.

 

[Wabit]

Not disagreeing with you, just an opinion but it's hard to win without high end talent, it's hard to get high end talent without drafting high and it's hard to draft high without taking some lumps. I'm willing to try it the other way because honestly, I wish they would have done that from the beginning.....build through the draft and create an organization known for high end drafting and development.

Maybe GMPF is just clearing up cap space so he can give Hendricks and Bitetto raises next season?

 

[Wabit]

True.

I've haven't been pro-"tank" until very, very recently and it has a lot to do with the team that we've all seen the past couple of weeks and the team that I'm suspecting that we will be watching for the remainder of the season. They season hasn't had a whole lot of good hockey anyways, so why not just grit our teeth for another 5 weeks and see if we can get some real talent?

Also I'm a little bit confused. You've been an advocate of not paying Spurgeon and Granlund their new (prospective) contracts, but if you trade them, what exactly do you think you're getting and what do you think would happen to this team if they weren't on the roster and weren't replaced with equal talent?

I haven't seen a Granlund or Spurgeon trade I've liked on here in awhile. I don't think either are part of the 4+ year solution going forward either. They could make a run next year and just let them walk and I'd be okay with it; basically treat them like a rental that didn't cost anything to acquire. I also don't have the burning need to get mystery box futures for every expiring contract if the team is in the Playoffs. I really haven't thought about what I think is a fair trade for either of them.

To stay competitive this year there Spurgeon (and Brodin) is almost untouchable. There just isn't anything left behind him with Dumba out. With a healthy Dumba it would be a different story. Spurgeon should get the best return out of any of the Wild's players if he was traded.

Granlund is a different story, he hasn't been playing well (or like himself) since around X-mas. I don't see him as an irreplaceable player, but the return for him I just don't see being very good right now. Playing him as a center is awful both in theory and in practice.

Zucker and Coyle were the 2 FWDs I thought needed to go.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I haven't seen a Granlund or Spurgeon trade I've liked on here in awhile. I don't think either are part of the 4+ year solution going forward either. They could make a run next year and just let them walk and I'd be okay with it; basically treat them like a rental that didn't cost anything to acquire. I also don't have the burning need to get mystery box futures for every expiring contract if the team is in the Playoffs. I really haven't thought about what I think is a fair trade for either of them.

To stay competitive this year there Spurgeon (and Brodin) is almost untouchable. There just isn't anything left behind him with Dumba out. With a healthy Dumba it would be a different story. Spurgeon should get the best return out of any of the Wild's players if he was traded.

Granlund is a different story, he hasn't been playing well (or like himself) since around X-mas. I don't see him as an irreplaceable player, but the return for him I just don't see being very good right now. Playing him as a center is awful both in theory and in practice.

Zucker and Coyle were the 2 FWDs I thought needed to go.

I think the crux of the matter is that you have a little (or a lot) more confidence in the team, as currently configured, performing like a playoff caliber team for the rest of this year than I do. I think we're basically DOA right now.