Patrik Laine III: We’ve got questions, he’s got answers

[EspenK]

Yeah let's trade one of our most valuable assets when he's at a career low in value!

I'd assume Jarmo wouldn't trade him for a 2nd and a bag of pucks. I go back and forth on trading him and I think that it all comes down to what Larsen thinks. If he is comfortable and thinks he can re-energize Laine then he should stay;otherwise trade him if the offer doesn't reflect last season.

 

[KJ Dangler]

And the throw in to the trade faced the same things and outperformed him. This arguement is as weak as Laine's game was last season.

Bro do I live in your head ? Every single post I make, there you are within 2 post, with a snarky comment . Roslovic wasn't treated remotely the same as Laine was, and lord knows his defense was bad. How'd Pld do, how'd Domi do ? I think I'll defer to the GM in his statement that with the factors that took place this season, and much of what I mentioned above, he’s putting no stock into the past season results, and expects the player to bounce back strong next season...

 

[stonec]

True. Bottom line is Laine didn't play well this year. Him saying he is going to stay in Columbus to work on things shows me he is accepting blame in how bad he played. How much he improves or declines will show how serious he is about getting better. Of course, if he does get better, people will blame Torts instead of giving Patrik his due for the hard work and effort.

Yes, I am going to put quite a bit of blame on Torts if Laine bounces back to another PPG season next year, where he was the season before he got traded. Torts doesn't get a free pass, it's not the first time he has failed with star players, the same happened with Sedins. If Laine continues to score at 0.5 PPG and net another -30 season, then I will say I was wrong and Winnipeg made him look better than he was.

In any case, I don't expect Laine to practice massively different in the summer this season. He was already training with Barkov all autumn last year and we know that guy is probably the best two-way forward in the league. I don't think it's about making fundamental changes for a player that has been in the league for five years, it's the little details, the system, the chemistry with line-mates, confidence, etc. that will decide.

 

[CBJx614]

I'd assume Jarmo wouldn't trade him for a 2nd and a bag of pucks. I go back and forth on trading him and I think that it all comes down to what Larsen thinks. If he is comfortable and thinks he can re-energize Laine then he should stay;otherwise trade him if the offer doesn't reflect last season.

I feel like at minimum you have to wait until the TDL. If Foligno gets you a first, a red hot team pushing for a playoff spot or potentially missing that big time goal scorer would pay a premium for him.

Having said that I don't think we move him if he's having a bounce back season.

 

[Monstershockey]

Oh you mean the kid who was traded to his hometown?? Roslovic and Laines situations are miles apart. I would wager Roslovic would struggle mightly if he was traded to a Finnish team, even if he could speak the language.

We already had this conversation, there are people just like you and I. With different wants and needs. Roslovic and Laines situations couldn't be more different and I would imagine they're personalities are entirely different as well.

Roslovic literally landed in his dream team. Where as Laine moved to what in his eyes before he moved here as probably just another boring American town.

I get it they are people like us. I have said it in the past that players aren't like robots. Why is holding a player accountable such a bad thing? These guys chose to play hockey for a career. Some of them left home when they were 15 or 16 to live with other families because they lived closer to the facilities. Changing teams and cities and getting new team mates is all part of this lifestyle. Laine is a guy that apparently is known to hole up at home and play video games all night. Being home alone during the pandemic probably wasn't much different. It sounded like he wasn't a socially active person when he was in Winnipeg either. Actually, showing up in Winnipeg on his own at 18 was probably a bigger life change than getting traded to Columbus at 22. There is always going to be adversity to face in life and your job, its all in how you handle it. And just because Roslovic landed in his hometown doesn't mean he couldn't have had a tough year here, or have a down year next year. As far as going to a Finnish team, it would all depend on how Roslovic can handle adversity like that. He could go there and be just fine, like how Alex Broadhurst went there and put up 35 points in 45 games last season after not being able to make the NHL.

 

[Monstershockey]

Jack knew a few of the players, skated with them in the offseason and he is from here. He didn't have to adjust to a new a city or anything so he was probably more mentally able to handle getting traded because he was traded to his home town. If he was traded to Arizona or really anywhere else, he would have had a tough time. You can't compare him and Laine in that sense.

I'm sure there was a comfort factor, but if he was traded anywhere else, who knows how he would respond. He was on pace for a pretty good year points wise on a bad team, but he was a first round pick, and there are some expectations there that he could be good. Maybe the Jackets got lucky with him and he is just starting to find his game and he turns out to be the center they need.

 

[Monstershockey]

Bro do I live in your head ? Every single post I make, there you are within 2 post, with a snarky comment . Roslovic wasn't treated remotely the same as Laine was, and lord knows his defense was bad. How'd Pld do, how'd Domi do ? I think I'll defer to the GM in his statement that with the factors that took place this season, and much of what I mentioned above, he’s putting no stock into the past season results, and expects the player to bounce back strong next season...

No, you're not in my head. If I only replied to just you and no one else, then maybe you are, but I don't. I also don't reply to a lot of your comments in the draft thread, as I am not that interested in the scouting part. I'll watch the videos you post, but I don't have much to say about that stuff. Columbus will draft who they do, and if they end up in Cleveland, or make it to Columbus right away I'll pay attention, but if they go overseas I won't. Roslovic may have been treated a little different, but again, he was producing and doing what was expected of him. He still got called out by name after having a bad game, and was benched, but he still did what was expected. As far as his defense goes, he still wasn't as bad as Laine. I don't know what you mean about PLD, it looked like he needed Torts on his back because he responded to it. He almost always did. If there is one guy Torts knew how to get going it was PLD. With Domi, I really had no problem with getting him. He didn't play well most of the year, but who knows the extent of his injury and the effect it had on his game. I hope these guys do bounce back, but I am not just blaming Torts for it. The players have accountability also.

 

[Monstershockey]

Yes, I am going to put quite a bit of blame on Torts if Laine bounces back to another PPG season next year, where he was the season before he got traded. Torts doesn't get a free pass, it's not the first time he has failed with star players, the same happened with Sedins. If Laine continues to score at 0.5 PPG and net another -30 season, then I will say I was wrong and Winnipeg made him look better than he was.

In any case, I don't expect Laine to practice massively different in the summer this season. He was already training with Barkov all autumn last year and we know that guy is probably the best two-way forward in the league. I don't think it's about making fundamental changes for a player that has been in the league for five years, it's the little details, the system, the chemistry with line-mates, confidence, etc. that will decide.

If Laine bounces back, I still won't totally blame Torts because I think a lot of it was because Laine just didn't play well. At all. I will blame Torts for not just walking away after Jarmo wouldn't let him out of his contract. He probably should have just quit if he wasn't going to give it his all coaching. Either way looks bad, but at least if he quit, they could have moved on. I also think that Jarmo should have let him out. I don't know how the contract works, but if Torts asked out, I don't know if Columbus still had to pay him because he technically was the one that wanted to terminate the contract. If they did have to pay him, I would think they could have negotiated a lesser amount and parted ways. Either way would have been better than what happened. As far as Vancouver goes, I think even Torts thought that was a mistake, probably even thought that was the end of his coaching career.

 

[VT]

And the fact that Laine can improve thanks to not so hard COVID measures ( he will be able to meet with teammates, the town...) , full training camp, working on himself in the summer, and use Torts` work with him... doesn`t it count?

 

[EDM]

I do not see how anyone can rationally dispute that, for some reason, Torts singled out Laine for a very special, and custom tailored mind f***. The arbitrary benching were one think. But Tort’s delusional idea that in a condensed season with literally no practice time and a slew of new teammates, Torts was going to convert Laine into a different type of player has to be one of the stupidest, inept, coaching decisions in the entire NHL last year. I was a big Torts fan. But his handling of Laine was beyond any rational coaching strategy. I think it should be obvious that you give a guy with his talent a chance to produce when he is not being deliberately mind f***ed by his coach.

 

[OldGoaltender]

I do not see how anyone can rationally dispute that, for some reason, Torts singled out Laine for a very special, and custom tailored mind f***. The arbitrary benching were one think. But Tort’s delusional idea that in a condensed season with literally no practice time and a slew of new teammates, Torts was going to convert Laine into a different type of player has to be one of the stupidest, inept, coaching decisions in the entire NHL last year. I was a big Torts fan. But his handling of Laine was beyond any rational coaching strategy. I think it should be obvious that you give a guy with his talent a chance to produce when he is not being deliberately mind f***ed by his coach.

I really liked Torts but his coaching style has a shelf life and he knew it was up. I think giving up on Foudy, Tex, Laine and even Domi can be short sighted. We have talent but it’s been misused. Let’s see what they do under a new scheme and approach.

 

[Xoggz22]

My personal opinion, not that it matters, is the CBJ would be crazy to move Laine right now unless it's for something ludicrous. The Laine that we saw in Columbus last year is not the Laine that was drafted #2OA and that has already scored 44 goals in a season and averages 35 g/yr even with his 12g in 46 g this year. He is an elite offensive talent that certainly has some flaws but he's not useless, he's 23, he's coming off a miserable year in an unbelievable set of circumstances... moving him now, again, my opinion, is just terrible use of assets. I love our young players and prospects as much as the next person (if not more) but we have NOTHING in the system that appears to be a Laine replacement. I'm very high on Marchenko, Chinakhov and Voronkov. I love our spot in the draft. I'm sure we're going to get a few good assets from moves this summer, but at this point these are all hopes.

Laine may not return to form but as a 23 year old, if he's willing to stay, Columbus has the assets to build a team that would be much better with him on it in the long run. He's shown his ability over multiple years. That's not something a 23 year old loses in a year. As to the others....

If wishes and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas!

 

[majormajor]

I do not see how anyone can rationally dispute that, for some reason, Torts singled out Laine for a very special, and custom tailored mind f***. The arbitrary benching were one think. But Tort’s delusional idea that in a condensed season with literally no practice time and a slew of new teammates, Torts was going to convert Laine into a different type of player has to be one of the stupidest, inept, coaching decisions in the entire NHL last year. I was a big Torts fan. But his handling of Laine was beyond any rational coaching strategy. I think it should be obvious that you give a guy with his talent a chance to produce when he is not being deliberately mind f***ed by his coach.

I'll go out on a limb and say Torts was trying to make improvements to Laine's game. It was a dumb way of doing it but it wasn't a "deliberate mind f***" or whatever over the top accusation you're making. He was working on his game just like he works on every players game, the same type of thing that has garnered Torts gratitude from countless former players. Tone it down.

I'm still not sure if there was any big change attempted in Laine's playstyle. If you go back and watch him from junior or from Winnipeg you'll see he was just as much a power forward then as now. That is - the occasional hit or power move but not really. He was a sniper then and now. I think he carried the puck way too much this year, and most of his failure (and the teams failure when he was on the ice) came from Laine not being able to handle the puck. But was Torts insisting that he had to keep trying that? And was the failure more because of Laine's mental state? I'd want to see a shift in Laine's playstyle in the opposite direction. He's a sniper who can occasionally chip in in other areas, don't have him carry the puck much.

 

[majormajor]

Laine may not return to form but as a 23 year old, if he's willing to stay, Columbus has the assets to build a team that would be much better with him on it in the long run. He's shown his ability over multiple years. That's not something a 23 year old loses in a year. As to the others....

If wishes and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas!

I'm having a harder time envisioning it. Eventually I'm sure we could build a team that would be able to get more out of Laine but that is a multi-year process. I'd be fine with letting it play out if he was 21 or something. But he's got a $7.5m qualifying offer and he's getting very close to UFA status. If we can't commit big money to him long term yet (and why would we, he was just the worst player on the team) and can't do that by this point next year, then he's going to need that commitment from somewhere else.

And is his value lower now, after just one year on a team that doesn't have the elite help for him,

or

next year, after another year on a team that doesn't have elite help for him, and as he's nearing UFA and asking for a huge commitment?

 

[VT]

Panthers Should Not Attempt to Bring in Patrik Laine

 

[Halberdier]

Panthers Should Not Attempt to Bring in Patrik Laine

Well, technically Panthers should attempt that, but let's hope they don't and that CBJ tries to attempt to bring in Barkov

But that aside, just to answer to the topic: he will stay (at least for 1-2 seasons), unless he is traded by Jarmo. For long term contract he needs to believe there is some future for CBJ as a playoffs team.

 

[Easternbull]

Why would Barkov even consider going from a potential contender to playing his prime years for a rebuilding team?

Floridas tax laws will also help convince Barkov to sign long term IMHO.

 

[majormajor]

Why would Barkov even consider going from a potential contender to playing his prime years for a rebuilding team?

Floridas tax laws will also help convince Barkov to sign long term IMHO.

My guess is that Laine is not so much concerned with tax laws or whether his team is an immediate contender. And he has been chastened by the last year - asking out of Winnipeg and then failing miserably in Columbus. He wants to find redemption in Columbus and he doesn't want to become a wandering journeyman. What probably overwhelms all of that though is that he is staring career and financial ruin in the face if he can't get his game back and he has to be asking himself if Columbus is a dangerous place for him in that regard. There's a much safer path to redemption in Florida.

 

[VT]

Well, technically Panthers should attempt that, but let's hope they don't and that CBJ tries to attempt to bring in Barkov

But that aside, just to answer to the topic: he will stay (at least for 1-2 seasons), unless he is traded by Jarmo. For long term contract he needs to believe there is some future for CBJ as a playoffs team.

How do you know he won't be trades still in this preseason?

 

[EDM]

Major, do not know how you can say that Torts did not attempt to alter Laine's playing style when Torts admitted, on several occasions, that is exactly what he was doing when he tried to make him a "power forward". In addition, it was a foolish gesture to try to do that when there was so very little practice time allowed by the condensed schedule.

 

[Monk]

Major, do not know how you can say that Torts did not attempt to alter Laine's playing style when Torts admitted, on several occasions, that is exactly what he was doing when he tried to make him a "power forward". In addition, it was a foolish gesture to try to do that when there was so very little practice time allowed by the condensed schedule.

Oh OK so it wasn't a very special, tailored mind f***ing. I'm much more receptive to your posts when you actually say what you mean instead of inflammatory nonsense.

 

[Youngguns80]

The CBJ needs to quit messing around with guys who could possibly play center and get a guy who can really play 1C. If they can’t get that then there should not be talk of keeping a Patrick Laine. That is just a waste.

There is a prime candidate out there by the name of Jack Eichel that the CBJ could land and already has a five-year contract. Build around the center and the backend and you have a team.

They say centers don’t grow on trees but again you have one out there that you can go get. Getting Sam Reinhart puts us in the same position that we are this year - one year contract and then he would leave.

Loved when we traded for Patrick Laine, but it seems like he needs a good center to reach his potential. We don’t have a puck carrying center to make this happen.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Listened to an interview with Larsen and when he touched on Laine he subtly implied he wasn't in the best shape when he got here, and then the usual things we've already heard about it being tough to adjust to the team with no camp, no time with teammates, pandemic, etc.

He said Laine wanted to carry the team on his back and got frustrated to the point of not playing his game and deffering too much. He maybe didn't trust his teammates to get him the puck and tried to hard to get the perfect looks rather than just playing within himself. He also mentioned that Laine is excited to get back here next year and get into better shape.



If you want to hear the interview with Larsen its above. The Laine bit starts at 34 minutes. (-31.38)

 

[majormajor]

Major, do not know how you can say that Torts did not attempt to alter Laine's playing style when Torts admitted, on several occasions, that is exactly what he was doing when he tried to make him a "power forward". In addition, it was a foolish gesture to try to do that when there was so very little practice time allowed by the condensed schedule.

Torts says a lot of things.

There's only two differences in Laine's game. One is that he carried the puck more (too much) in the neutral zone. The other is that he played too far back and went down low or to the net even more rarely, and that is probably a confidence thing. I don't see how those are the changes you would make if you wanted someone to become a power forward.

The #1 takeaway two years ago when Babcock got canned and the scalphunters started trying to get Torts fired, was that we learned how much players and ex-players respect Torts. They say he is super straightforward and is the opposite of the mind games "mind-f***" type. You're just playing into stereotypes here, and you should drop it, sorry.

 

[Halberdier]

How do you know he won't be trades still in this preseason?

Like I said he will stay, if Jarmo doesn't trade him. He is not asking for trade. He is even training with Columbus trainers during the summer, which is quite unusual.