HabsByTheBay
Registered User
Roy has said he cooled off the next morning and was willing to talk it over. Some people may be skeptical of that but Roy was under contract, they had the power to put him on ice for a couple days.
IIRC, didn't Lacroix ask for Keane thinking he would never get him, and Houle just agreed to it, surprising Lacroix? Anyway, what I remember most about the Keane toss-in was the locker room reaction. After Roy's suspension, the team was a bit downcast but saying all the right things: "It's a tough situation but we'll carry on," "Sorry to lose him but we gotta pull together," all that stuff. When the trade was announced and the room learned Keane was leaving, they shattered. There were guys in tears, couldn't even speak to the media. Keane himself was a wreck, as he did not want to leave and never saw it coming (much like Muller the year prior).Despite Thibault's pedigree and Kovalenko's raw ability, everyone knew this was a terrible deal at the time. The real crime is that Mike Keane was thrown in as well. On top of him being a quality 3rd line player he was also the Canadiens captain at the time.
IIRC, didn't Lacroix ask for Keane thinking he would never get him, and Houle just agreed to it, surprising Lacroix? Anyway, what I remember most about the Keane toss-in was the locker room reaction. After Roy's suspension, the team was a bit downcast but saying all the right things: "It's a tough situation but we'll carry on," "Sorry to lose him but we gotta pull together," all that stuff. When the trade was announced and the room learned Keane was leaving, they shattered. There were guys in tears, couldn't even speak to the media. Keane himself was a wreck, as he did not want to leave and never saw it coming (much like Muller the year prior).
Reggie Houle earned my eternal scorn for that.
I was amazed the team pulled themselves together and made the playoffs.
I hadn't heard that but it's quite understandable. While I don't think anyone can argue that Roy leaving was the greater loss, at least they could come together as a "team" without the ego maniac, but moving their heart and soul captain (for the second time in 2 years!) must have been deflating. Not to mention they named Turgeon captain soon after. Talk about a guy that was named captain for his talent and talent alone...
If you look at the character that the team lost in the years following the '93 Cup, it is indeed a wonder they were able to pull it together and make the playoffs that season. I'm not even saying that these moves were terrible, just that the binding elements were lost wothout being replaced - Muller, Keane, Schneider, Desjardins and I'm sure it doesn't end there.
if you count carbonneau too, that's three in sixteen months.
lots of key leadership that was never replaced: carbo, muller, keane, and i think you have to include roy too. whether the guys loved him or simply tolerated him, when patrick roy promises you he's shutting down the door, that gives the team a huge boost. obviously a key talent in desjardins left, and a soft, often disinterested guy in malakhov took his place. schneider at that point was a good offensive player, but hardly a key contributor to the run (they did, after all, do just fine without him when he was injured for half of the playoff run), and i'd argue that the combined losses of daigneault and, in the '96 offseason, odelein were probably bigger losses. also, losing a young john leclair and paul dipietro, who was basically done at that point but was still a surprisingly good and opportunistic playoff contributor, that's not something kovalenko or valeri bure can replace.
if you count carbonneau too, that's three in sixteen months.
lots of key leadership that was never replaced: carbo, muller, keane, and i think you have to include roy too. whether the guys loved him or simply tolerated him, when patrick roy promises you he's shutting down the door, that gives the team a huge boost. obviously a key talent in desjardins left, and a soft, often disinterested guy in malakhov took his place. schneider at that point was a good offensive player, but hardly a key contributor to the run (they did, after all, do just fine without him when he was injured for half of the playoff run), and i'd argue that the combined losses of daigneault and, in the '96 offseason, odelein were probably bigger losses. also, losing a young john leclair and paul dipietro, who was basically done at that point but was still a surprisingly good and opportunistic playoff contributor, that's not something kovalenko or valeri bure can replace.
The loss of Carbonneau just stunned me and left me disenchanted with the club I'd supported since 1953. There are very few players who consistently perform at a level greater than the sum of their individual talents, and Carbonneau was one of them. He could literally lift the entire team through sheer effort. You don't trade away the heart and soul of your team. His loss just broke my heart. And then much later I learned about the alleged reason for the trade--something about flipping the bird at a golf tournament in violation of the Jean Beliveau code of conduct for captains of the Canadiens. That infuriated me.
Maybe I'm just thinking of a more recent version of Schneider and including him in that character group, but I would expect that he was a better dressing room guy than Desjardins (who I maybe should not have included in that group) and certainly more than Leclair. Don't get me wrong, the loss of Leclair is obvious in hindsight, but I don't think he was one of the guys who was at the heart of the team, and while Desjardins developed into a leader in Philly, he was still pretty young at the time.
I would definitely include Carbo in that "glue" group- actually realized I forgot him on my way home from work. Was a bit rushed on the last post, being on the clock and all. Apparently I'm supposed to "work."
Maybe I'm just thinking of a more recent version of Schneider and including him in that character group, but I would expect that he was a better dressing room guy than Desjardins (who I maybe should not have included in that group) and certainly more than Leclair. Don't get me wrong, the loss of Leclair is obvious in hindsight, but I don't think he was one of the guys who was at the heart of the team, and while Desjardins developed into a leader in Philly, he was still pretty young at the time.
Odelein and Daigneault were two vets I overlooked and I definitely agree on Roy. He was an enormous part of the team's identity. His swagger was irreplaceable. However, had they kept some of the "leaders" around it would likely have helped offset his loss. In sum, losing three captains in the span of 3 years or so without replacing them with equal leaders is bound to lead to instability- even if you don't trade an all-world goalie in the same time span.
I thought I remember hearing something about Schneider's less than appropriate dealings with another players wife, but I could be sorely mistaken?
Sooo... Is this the most famous/infamous last game for a franchise by any player ever?
Are there even any other contenders?
...It was strange to see a legendary team who almost always ran like a well oiled machine unravel in front of our eyes and Mario Tremblay is where I put the initial blame.
Even though I always loathed the Habs, they never had a circus surrounding them up until 1995. They were a well run organization from day one. They had this mystique about them, they almost seemed infallible, and Roy being there made it feel that way more so since they were always a contender with him in net.
All of that changed in December of 1995. In fact, maybe it changed even before that when they got rid of Jacques Demers and Serge Savard, two months earlier. Then replaced them with Tremblay and Houle, both who go down among the worst ever in NHL history at their jobs.
Then the Detroit game happened. I remember they kept showing the goals on updates from the Leaf game on HNIC. It was a rout. And that famous moment where Roy makes an easy save from Fedorov and then raises his arms in mock salute, watch what happens to the puck. Roy just sort of leaves it beside the net, hoping his defenseman would get it and then gives the "salute" to the fans. The only thing is if you watch closely Fedorov almost steals the puck right beside the net and had he done that then Roy would have been too busy giving the finger to the fans to make the save. This tells me that he had enough of Montreal by then.
From December of 1995 onwards the Habs made bad move after bad move. Letting Roy just rot in the net was wrong. Roy demanding a trade looked bad on the Habs part too. Then throwing in Mike Keane. Wow, that was a shocker. I can remember Keane in tears during an interview. Then the strangest announcement was Turgeon taking over as captain. I didn't understand it. You had Damphousse and Recchi there and they picked Turgeon? A year later Turgeon is traded for Shayne Corson (hey look I know Turgeon had his issues but his talent outweighed the heart of the washed up Corson), then letting Damphousse and Recchi go. It was strange to see a legendary team who almost always ran like a well oiled machine unravel in front of our eyes and Mario Tremblay is where I put the initial blame.
my first favourite team was the habs in late 80s/early 90s. basically the roy era, beginning with the '86 cup run, rooting against the flames in '89 once i'd started to understand as a youngster in vancouver that i was supposed to hate those guys (plus, otto kicked it in), and getting really caught up in the '93 run. roy was my first favourite player, before pavel bure came along. and it was painful to watch the mismanagement of the habs in the post-serge savard era. i mean, you went from serge savard, who made some pretty big mistakes (chelios, desjardins/leclair, carbonneau, lefebvre, claude lemieux) but who still won two cups and was a highly credible legend of the game, not to mention awardee of the order of canada in '94, to ex-hab dregs like houle and tremblay. and all of this while watching minnesota make it to the finals and then later becoming a powerhouse in dallas under bob gainey, jersey winning the year roy was traded under lemaire and robinson, and later bowman in detroit and of course roy himself in colorado. the entire late 90s and some of the early 2000s (nine straight cups) were dominated by ex-hab hall of famers -- not to mention ex-hab role players being leadership and "glue" guys on three of the era's four dominant teams. and in all of this time, the actual habs franchise looks like a farce.
so i'm trying to think about this from roy's perspective. the man seemed to love being hab, and you can still see that from the great interview ivan13 mentioned above. but at the same time, i think we all know that being a hab when things are good might be the best job in hockey, or at least a close second to being a leaf during good times. but the job also comes with things that suck: the fans can be great or they can be a nightmare, and when times are bad the constant scrutiny and especially the rabid press is not something you'd want to deal with. but you take the bad because the good can be so good, and for the honour and pride of wearing that uniform and being a part of that history and walking in the footsteps of morenz, rocket, beliveau, flower, etc.
so i'm thinking i'm patrick roy in 1995. the fans have turned on me, tremblay is probably trying to be tough like scotty bowman but failing miserably at it (plus i already hate the guy from my playing days), rejean houle is just a figurehead who can't stand up to an increasingly out of touch ronald corey (notice it's not houle that roy tells he's played his last game), i've probably heard rumours that my captain is on his way out because he won't learn french (and probably suspecting also that the next captain is going to be the french speaking wiener who was hiding on the bench with his head down while my brother was kicked in the head), the habs had just missed the playoffs for the first time since... i was 5 years old, while lemaire and robinson had just won a stanley cup with a young french goalie and my old buddies claude lemieux and stephane richer and i'm stuck with tremblay and houle.
even taking the embarrassment, disrespect, and his pride and ego out of the equation, patrick roy was a smart guy. i wonder if in the moment the fans were giving it to him after the easy fedorov save he decided in his head: "you know what? what's the point in dealing with the bs of being a hab if this franchise isn't even really the habs anymore?"
(i mean, for all the crap we give kevin lowe, craig mactavish, and associates today, houle and tremblay were probably worse in terms of being incompetent cronies)
IIRC, didn't Lacroix ask for Keane thinking he would never get him, and Houle just agreed to it, surprising Lacroix? Anyway, what I remember most about the Keane toss-in was the locker room reaction. After Roy's suspension, the team was a bit downcast but saying all the right things: "It's a tough situation but we'll carry on," "Sorry to lose him but we gotta pull together," all that stuff. When the trade was announced and the room learned Keane was leaving, they shattered. There were guys in tears, couldn't even speak to the media. Keane himself was a wreck, as he did not want to leave and never saw it coming (much like Muller the year prior).
Reggie Houle earned my eternal scorn for that.
I was amazed the team pulled themselves together and made the playoffs.
Sooo... Is this the most famous/infamous last game for a franchise by any player ever?
Are there even any other contenders?
The grand irony I find to this whole story is that Detroit now had to go through Roy almost every playoff year. Would Detroit have won more Cups if Roy never made it to Colorado?