Pat Kane Investigation talk [MOD: Post #129]

[Onslow]

I haven't really been keeping up with this and I just read through some of the thread to catch up.

I'm just reminded of the cliché that truth is indeed stranger than fiction.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/macramalla-kane-case-is-something-out-of-a-movie-1.366419

Macramalla: Kane case is something out of a movie

TSN legal analyst Eric Macramalla joins Gareth Wheeler with instant reaction to District Attorney Frank Sedita's press conference.

 

[Kublakhan]

what a mess

 

[hizzoner]

It wouldn't be at all. Here in Baltimore we're going to seat SIX (6) juries in the Freddie Gray/police officer cases. You know, the death that led to city-wide rioting that made national and international news? I think Erie County could easily seat 12 people who don't know Patrick Kane from a hole in the ground and weren't following this summer circus in the media.

With social media these days anyone likely to be called to jury duty will most likely surf the net to find out what may face him/her as a potential juror. Finding people who know nothing will be difficult. Finding people who will 100% not have some personal feelings about the case after doing their own research-which they will be warned about--well- not easy.

 

[joshjull]

There is a segment of Hawk fans ( I'm hoping very small) that have lost their minds over this. Fanboys that have been attacking the press non stop since this situation started. Defending their beloved Kaner and enraged anyone would speak ill of him. When in reality the members of the press where just reporting events as they learn them. Not attacking Kane at all.

 

[Myllz]

There is a segment of Hawk fans ( I'm hoping very small) that have lost their minds over this. Fanboys that have been attacking the press non stop since this situation started. Defending their beloved Kaner and enraged anyone would speak ill of him. When in reality the members of the press where just reporting events as they learn them. Not attacking Kane at all.

People suck.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

This case is just so odd and weird and crazy and it's hard to make sense of anything.

I will say, based on my experience, that is a real label from the hospital and not something made up. Generally, only hospital staff have access to those. Also, I would be very surprised if that bag was used for someone to take belongings home in. The hospitals here, including ECMC, use plastic bags for that purpose. The paper bags are brought out to put clothing in for evidence collection because those items will not fit into the rape kit box.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/prosecutor-address-evidence-bag-issue-kane-case-070713290--nhl.html

"Sedita said the mother was given the bag at a hospital when her daughter was examined, but it never contained a rape kit. The examining nurse gave the mother the bag after learning the accuser changed her top before going to the hospital, Sedita said. The mother was to put the top in the bag and turn it into authorities, but never did, Sedita said."

"Hamburg police chief Gregory Wickett said Friday that an officer who went the mother's home the day she went to the hospital saw the bag, but didn't take it and put the clothing requested by the nurse in a different bag instead."

So I guess that's what happened - the mother ended up with an extra bag and took it from there...pathetic.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

There is a segment of Hawk fans ( I'm hoping very small) that have lost their minds over this. Fanboys that have been attacking the press non stop since this situation started. Defending their beloved Kaner and enraged anyone would speak ill of him. When in reality the members of the press where just reporting events as they learn them. Not attacking Kane at all.

Living in Chicago, I'd have to say it's much larger than a small segment. It's disgusting to be honest. To be fair, Dicaro had a particularly harsh take on the whole kane rape proceedings. Not to justify any of the threats. Part of having an enormous bandwagon fanbase means there will be an enormous number of crazy, unreasonable meatballs. Chicago is no different than any other fanbase that will have their share of meatball fans, but I've had to break off several friendships because of their uneducated, victim shaming, blind faith in a person they do not know (kane). They act as if he can do no wrong, as if they know him personally, and as if any negative story about Kabe is a personal affront. The entire thing has been an eye opening and unfortunate experience...

 

[Zip15]

With social media these days anyone likely to be called to jury duty will most likely surf the net to find out what may face him/her as a potential juror. Finding people who know nothing will be difficult. Finding people who will 100% not have some personal feelings about the case after doing their own research-which they will be warned about--well- not easy.

There are roughly 900,000 residents of Erie County. Assuming 600,000 would be eligible jurors, and you'd need to find 18 jurors (six alternates), you'd need to find one juror per 33,333 people. It's not remotely difficult, even in a high-profile case.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There are roughly 900,000 residents of Erie County. Assuming 600,000 would be eligible jurors, and you'd need to find 18 jurors (six alternates), you'd need to find one juror per 33,333 people. It's not remotely difficult, even in a high-profile case.

It sure seems difficult once you're in a courtroom going through jury selection. In my experience, after sorting through the cesspool of details that best pass for "facts" according to suspects and "victims" who also aren't candidates for citizen of the month, you then face the daunting task of trying to get twelve people who 1) have a clue, 2) are unbiased and 3) know how to conduct themselves during a trial. If you find those people, most are struck by the defense's peremptory challenges. I've had the "pleasure" of assisting prosecutors in my cases with jury selection, and it's beyond frustration. I don't believe true justice actually exists anymore, and I have a hard time finding true victim's that even deserve it.

 

[hizzoner]

There are roughly 900,000 residents of Erie County. Assuming 600,000 would be eligible jurors, and you'd need to find 18 jurors (six alternates), you'd need to find one juror per 33,333 people. It's not remotely difficult, even in a high-profile case.

18 grains of sand in a pint jar of sand......My point is that there would be a very high proportion of the eligible base who would have knowledge and likely opinions..Sorting through a randomly selected group even of several hundred with a fine enough screen will not be easy for prosecution or defence.Thirty years ago-heck 10 years ago-you would find half the public or more knew little of what was going on. Now the in your face coverage and social media saturation of celebrity mishaps or missteps is something the lawyers and the court have to struggle with to ensure fairness.

 

[Cirris]

It's kind of lame for the media to show big menacing photos of Kane when the story has nothing to do with him save for the fact that it's a motivation to go after a reporter who was deemed to be biased in the eyes of the threatening individual(s).

It's kind of lame for people to threaten others though.


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Also i was not aware that there are reports that the other girl that was at the home the night in question is refusing to testify. But the reality is if this case goes forward, I'm sure she'll be subpoenaed and forced to testify. You can't "NOT" testify if your a witness in a criminal matter.

http://wgntv.com/2015/09/24/lawyer-for-patrick-kanes-accuser-withdraws-from-case/

it was mentioned in the media video here.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Living in Chicago, I'd have to say it's much larger than a small segment. It's disgusting to be honest. To be fair, Dicaro had a particularly harsh take on the whole kane rape proceedings. Not to justify any of the threats. Part of having an enormous bandwagon fanbase means there will be an enormous number of crazy, unreasonable meatballs. Chicago is no different than any other fanbase that will have their share of meatball fans, but I've had to break off several friendships because of their uneducated, victim shaming, blind faith in a person they do not know (kane). They act as if he can do no wrong, as if they know him personally, and as if any negative story about Kabe is a personal affront. The entire thing has been an eye opening and unfortunate experience...

Bolded would make a great band name.
Honestly, the whole situation just seems like a mess now. I think it's really unfortunate for the accuser that her mother (assuming she acted independently) has cast such unnecessary doubt on her credibility with the bag stunt.

 

[fiend540]

It's kind of lame for the media to show big menacing photos of Kane when the story has nothing to do with him save for the fact that it's a motivation to go after a reporter who was deemed to be biased in the eyes of the threatening individual(s).

It's kind of lame for people to threaten others though.


------------------

Also i was not aware that there are reports that the other girl that was at the home the night in question is refusing to testify. But the reality is if this case goes forward, I'm sure she'll be subpoenaed and forced to testify. You can't "NOT" testify if your a witness in a criminal matter.

http://wgntv.com/2015/09/24/lawyer-for-patrick-kanes-accuser-withdraws-from-case/

it was mentioned in the media video here.

Is it that she doesn't want to testify, or that she isn't corroborating the same story as was originally thought?

 

[brian_griffin]

Bolded would make a great band name.
Honestly, the whole situation just seems like a mess now. I think it's really unfortunate for the accuser that her mother (assuming she acted independently) has cast such unnecessary doubt on her credibility with the bag stunt.

Early preview of the battle of the bands lineup for the 2016 graduation week University of Wisconsin "Kanefest".

Can of Worms
Misogynistic Cavemen
Muslim Kid Clock Maker
Unreasonable Meatballs

 

[UnleashRasmus]

The guy is a joke, and while he's a world class hockey player. His idiocy deserves to have him suspended for a monumental amount of time. Stay out of Western NY. Everytime you come "home" Patty Kane you make another glaring statement of your lack of growth and common sense as a person. Whether you did this or not, your inability to stay away from the wrong situation, judgement and alcoholic intake seriously have put you in the hall of scum.

 

[Beerz]

The guy is a joke, and while he's a world class hockey player. His idiocy deserves to have him suspended for a monumental amount of time. Stay out of Western NY. Everytime you come "home" Patty Kane you make another glaring statement of your lack of growth and common sense as a person. Whether you did this or not, your inability to stay away from the wrong situation, judgement and alcoholic intake seriously have put you in the hall of scum.

Actually it does matter if he did it or not.

Getting drunk and taking a girl back to your house isn't putting yourself in a bad situation and doesn't deserve to be accused of rape anymore than a drunk chick wearing a short skirt and flirting deserves to be raped.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Actually it does matter if he did it or not.

Getting drunk and taking a girl back to your house isn't putting yourself in a bad situation and doesn't deserve to be accused of rape anymore than a drunk chick wearing a short skirt and flirting deserves to be raped.

I honestly don't know how you can prove rape in these situations without any witness. I've always felt rape cases should be sealed from the public until an actual trial. Best for all parties.

Honestly a trial should also be private. We shouldn't know anything about this right now.

 

[Paxon]

Actually it does matter if he did it or not.

Getting drunk and taking a girl back to your house isn't putting yourself in a bad situation and doesn't deserve to be accused of rape anymore than a drunk chick wearing a short skirt and flirting deserves to be raped.

I haven't talked about this entire story one bit but I want to say I agree with this. With the caveat that I truly have no idea what really happened as the story is still very much developing, so just as a general thought: if Kane were falsely accused of sexual assault, blaming him for his "bad decisions" leading to that is not any different from blaming a victim of sexual assault for his or her "bad decisions". There's some unpleasant practical truth to either but it doesn't need to be stated so flatly as if to shift the blame for something so inherently wrong and vile from the perpetrator to the victim.

 

[Beerz]

I honestly don't know how you can prove rape in these situations without any witness. I've always felt rape cases should be sealed from the public until an actual trial. Best for all parties.

Honestly a trial should also be private. We shouldn't know anything about this right now.

A trial should not be private...but you're right... we shouldn't know anything right now. (And honestly I'm not sure that I do)

 

[Sabre Dance]

A trial should not be private...but you're right... we shouldn't know anything right now.

Many reports of rapes not being reported because of the embarrassment of going through a trial.

Also Kane will always be a rapist to many people, even if not guilty. His name shouldn't be public until actually charged.

 

[aceface33]

From the stuff I know and has been confirmed about Kane (taxi driver, Wisconsin stuff)I can comfortably say that IMO he's scum and in a case like this I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt and instead I'm inclined to believe the accuser.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

From the stuff I know and has been confirmed about Kane (taxi driver, Wisconsin stuff)I can comfortably say that IMO he's scum and in a case like this I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt and instead I'm inclined to believe the accuser.

The problem with that is, as much as I think Kane is an immature punk, I know first-hand just how many other irresponsible and manipulative people are out there. When they cross paths as they often do, some form of cesspool drama will come from it, and trying to split hairs over who was more wrong is a waste of time. The legal system has a responsibility to go through that process, but from a more basic moral perspective I just don't care that much (depending on exact circumstances). Most of the time, these people simply deserve each other and the resulting misery/embarrassment.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Living in Chicago, I'd have to say it's much larger than a small segment. It's disgusting to be honest. To be fair, Dicaro had a particularly harsh take on the whole kane rape proceedings. Not to justify any of the threats. Part of having an enormous bandwagon fanbase means there will be an enormous number of crazy, unreasonable meatballs. Chicago is no different than any other fanbase that will have their share of meatball fans, but I've had to break off several friendships because of their uneducated, victim shaming, blind faith in a person they do not know (kane). They act as if he can do no wrong, as if they know him personally, and as if any negative story about Kabe is a personal affront. The entire thing has been an eye opening and unfortunate experience...

This. I'm out in Downers, and I've just been flabbergasted by the amount of sheer ignorance that's been tossed around the Chicagoland community throughout this case. I feel like the discourse of sexual assault has been set back 20 years.

I love living here. But with regard to how it has approached and discussed the Kane investigation, this community (for the large part) should be absolutely ashamed of itself.

 

[RoofIt5hole]

This. I'm out in Downers, and I've just been flabbergasted by the amount of sheer ignorance that's been tossed around the Chicagoland community throughout this case. I feel like the discourse of sexual assault has been set back 20 years.

I love living here. But with regard to how it has approached and discussed the Kane investigation, this community (for the large part) should be absolutely ashamed of itself.

It's staggering to me how people (friends of mine) that are otherwise rational human beings have lost all sense in this matter. I've honestly broken off friendships with people for the disgusting things they've posted via social media regarding the whole thing. It's gotten to the point where I just avoid talking about hockey.



And OT: I love Downers Grove, there's a great Brazilian steak house there...