Part XVII: Phoenix -- This Thread Title Available For Lease

[Whileee]

Actually Whileee i think this thread has a stake in this rumour de jour so discussing it is not entirly out of place

If it is accurate then the news is very good for Glendale and means that they are probably closer to the finish line than we know.

Also i am not saying the rumour is accurate but the pieces of the puzzle would fall together much cleaner if we back it up for a quick review keeping the rumoured end in mind

last spring rumours of Atlanta moving to Winnipeg surface but are trumped by new rumours of Phoenix as things heat up in Glendale........TNSE are brought in as leverage on the Yotes play and used in an emergency pinch if Glendale didn't underwrite the losses of the 2010-11 season and buy some time....at that point TNSE were kept in the loop and told we are working on a deal with Matt and it looks solid but stay tuned.....then December hits the CoG and Matt get a deal that works in principle and TNSE are back to the original play which is the Thrashers

If in fact the deal was struck in principle between Atlanta TNSE and the NHL in 2010 for the beginning of the 2011-12 season then all the moves by TNSE like acquiring a city block across the street from the MTS centre.....putting $2 million into a press box upgrade to meet the needs of the NHL that could have been done at a future date if necessary...etc...etc would all make allot more sense

i know it seems complex but really its not.......i think it is also why both Bettman and Daly brought up Quebec as well....if TNSE were needed for Phoenix then i assume Quebec might have been the play for Atlanta

Its a game of musical chairs and possibly....unfortunately...when the music stops everyone except Atlanta would have a chair.....which would be sad for some of the classy posters on this site that have supported the Thrashers through mostly lean years

Yes, I do tend to think there is a link. If Glendale falls through, TNSE is brought in to take the Coyotes off the NHL's books, and the rumours about the Thrashers become a distant memory.

 

[RR]

I have always said that I think it is the prerogative of a municipality to go ahead and subsidize and social or entertainment or sports entity, as long as they do so transparently. In fact, I personally would be against a "gift law", since I think it is overly restrictive.

What I object to about this situation is how the NHL and Hulsizer have backed Glendale into a corner and forced them to do something that is almost certainly illegal (even if this never comes to court), and then tout how much faith they have in the market and are therefore heroically rescuing the team. In my view, the deal that Hulsizer cooked up greatly imperils the chances of the Coyotes staying in Glendale because: a) he waited so long that this is truly the last chance and; b) he forced conditions that might not fly legally or financially. If this deal doesn't go through, then you can point the finger directly at Hulsizer (and at IEH, to some degree) for stringing this along and then forcing an untenable deal.

This deal is essentially Reinsdorf's deal, but without the CFD. At least with Reinsdorf's deal you would have gotten a more proven entity as an owner, and even if the CFD was only partially successful, Glendale could have filled in the gaps financially at a lower cost (which they refused to do at that time). It would have cost Glendale a lot less money, it would have been completed before the season (thereby starting the Coyotes on the road to stability earlier), and it might have been less easily challenged legally (because the level of subsidies would have been much less). By messing around with IEH for months, and then being introduced to Hulsizer who clearly felt that he would only purchase the team under extremely favourable conditions, Glendale has come out on the very short end of the stick.

Again, I fully understand what Glendale is doing and why. It doesn't mean that we need to pretend that we believe them.

Exactly. So quit asking me questions when you know I'm only posting to correct factual errors or point out alternative perspectives. I'm not attempting to defend a position.

And remember the CFD was already created and could be resurrected as one of the potential future revenue streams mentioned in the Walker report.

Don't forget the arena management fee. I think I could figure out how to manage an arena if that much money was involved. I think Hulsizer and I would have the same amount of experience managing arenas at the outset as well.

You think Hulsizer is going to have anything to do with the management of the arena? Other than using a portion of his management fee to hire what he believes is the best management team that can manage the arena and drive new business?

I know if I was getting "paid" $97M over 6 years to run an arena that would be my first priority.

One other thing that I would be worried about,that really hasn't received that much attention, it the fact that there are ~8-10 investors. While I understand Mr H is the majority investor (I know COG) I really don't think this many investors are good for business.

I don't know about that. If I was getting $110M up front (sale of parking rights and partial year of AM Fee), I might consider 7-9 "partners" interested in collectively throwing $60M in while I personally retained ~65% of the business without contributing a penny.

Ya, that's pretty "out there" IMO. Initially, when Hulsizer got involved purportedly through the auspices of IEH's, their may well have been anywhere from 6-60+ prospective investors, whereby "units" were sold to finance the purchase & operation of the team & arena, I wouldnt put it past that crew for a minute. I suspect Hulsizer may have 1 (Moyes' former minority partner) possibly 2 very minor partners but thats it. Secondly, he's deposited $25M into an escrow account which (speculating wildly here JetsFan) I would guess is earmarked towards the total purchase price, with the balance (COG=$100M+MH$25M) of $40M coming from the partner & an Investment Bank. The Investment Bank would absolutely extend credit to purchase the team & provide additional funds not exceeding 90% of the $97.5M Hulsizers going to receive over the next 5yrs for Arena Management. As the entire deal is guaranteed by a municipality, I wouldnt think the NHL would be getting pious in demanding the usual minimum of 50% financing, 50% cash & 50%+ loss reserves they normally expect to have disclosed from a prospective buyer. Indeed, as of December 15, Bettman told the COG that Hulsizer had been tentatively approved.

Repeat after me, Killion. IEH is part of the deal. Click your heels together and repeat it three times. You won't end up in Kansas (could be Saskatoon, not sure), but when you come-to you'll recognize the characters by your bedside.

 

[crazycanuck900]

MR.Hulsizer is a joke.. just like I.E.H...! He can't buy the team with out Glendale's gift money. Glendale has been suckered by the NHL and Mr. Hulsizer. Face it if the lease deal goes through. Glendale has been Hulsizerd! p.s. Matt just called me and asked if i want to part owner with him and the other clowns, I told him when he steals all Glendales money(ie gift) to give me a call.

 

[CGG]

Anyone else find it odd that the city is still the only entity that believes that they are getting their $25 million back as part of the deal? It wasn't mentioned at all in the lease agreement, the NHL certainly isn't picking up the losses, and I doubt Hulsizer is eager to fund losses from the past 5 months of not owning the team.

And that's not even the most problematic component of the "Summary of Cost-Benefit Analysis". Of all of the future parking revenue, from the grossly inflated Hocking report, 45% of it comes from Coyotes games. So, of the net $251.7 million in parking revenue, only $115 million of it comes from Coyotes games. Well worth the $100 million upfront fee, if you ask me.

Interest payments on the bonds needed for this scam apparently are not a cost to the city, I guess we're lead to believe bondholders will gobble them up at a 0% rate.

It should also be pointed out that neither of the two parking experts valued the awesome parking lot naming rights at anything more than $0.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Anyone else find it odd that the city is still the only entity that believes that they are getting their $25 million back as part of the deal? It wasn't mentioned at all in the lease agreement, the NHL certainly isn't picking up the losses, and I doubt Hulsizer is eager to fund losses from the past 5 months of not owning the team.

And that's not even the most problematic component of the "Summary of Cost-Benefit Analysis". Of all of the future parking revenue, from the grossly inflated Hocking report, 45% of it comes from Coyotes games. So, of the net $251.7 million in parking revenue, only $115 million of it comes from Coyotes games. Well worth the $100 million upfront fee, if you ask me.

Interest payments on the bonds needed for this scam apparently are not a cost to the city, I guess we're lead to believe bondholders will gobble them up at a 0% rate.

It should also be pointed out that neither of the two parking experts valued the awesome parking lot naming rights at anything more than $0.

add interest on the bonds and coyotes parking is losing money

 

[OthmarAmmann]

Oh, I noticed that there's an updated fact sheet from the CoG on glendaleaz.com The new statement is dated Dec 20th, but I don't have the original so am not certain what's changed.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/FACTSHEETGlendaleNHLCoyotesUpdated122010.pdf

I know that things have gotten a bit weird over the Coyotes sale, but if this is a "fake" posting of a Moody's announcement on the Glendale bond sales then we have truly entered the Twilight Zone.

Why not? Fake **** is made up all the time. See the cost/benefit analysis for example.

MR.Hulsizer is a joke.. just like I.E.H...! He can't buy the team with out Glendale's gift money. Glendale has been suckered by the NHL and Mr. Hulsizer. Face it if the lease deal goes through. Glendale has been Hulsizerd! p.s. Matt just called me and asked if i want to part owner with him and the other clowns, I told him when he steals all Glendales money(ie gift) to give me a call.

Not a joke. Pretty impressive actually. Control of an NHL team with very little of his own money.

 

[Whileee]

Exactly. So quit asking me questions when you know I'm only posting to correct factual errors or point out alternative perspectives. I'm not attempting to defend a position.

And remember the CFD was already created and could be resurrected as one of the potential future revenue streams mentioned in the Walker report.



You think Hulsizer is going to have anything to do with the management of the arena? Other than using a portion of his management fee to hire what he believes is the best management team that can manage the arena and drive new business?

I know if I was getting "paid" $97M over 6 years to run an arena that would be my first priority.



I don't know about that. If I was getting $110M up front (sale of parking rights and partial year of AM Fee), I might consider 7-9 "partners" interested in collectively throwing $60M in while I personally retained ~65% of the business without contributing a penny.



Repeat after me, Killion. IEH is part of the deal. Click your heels together and repeat it three times. You won't end up in Kansas (could be Saskatoon, not sure), but when you come-to you'll recognize the characters by your bedside.

As I understand it, the CFD revenues don't come to the City of Glendale, so any additional CFD revenue would be in addition to the $197 million for Hulsizer, I suppose. Let's hope Hulsizer doesn't catch wind of this option.

 

[Whileee]

Anyone else find it odd that the city is still the only entity that believes that they are getting their $25 million back as part of the deal? It wasn't mentioned at all in the lease agreement, the NHL certainly isn't picking up the losses, and I doubt Hulsizer is eager to fund losses from the past 5 months of not owning the team.

And that's not even the most problematic component of the "Summary of Cost-Benefit Analysis". Of all of the future parking revenue, from the grossly inflated Hocking report, 45% of it comes from Coyotes games. So, of the net $251.7 million in parking revenue, only $115 million of it comes from Coyotes games. Well worth the $100 million upfront fee, if you ask me.

Interest payments on the bonds needed for this scam apparently are not a cost to the city, I guess we're lead to believe bondholders will gobble them up at a 0% rate.

It should also be pointed out that neither of the two parking experts valued the awesome parking lot naming rights at anything more than $0.

I heard that the Atlanta Spirit group and a number of other NHL franchise owners have become aware of the financial advice that Glendale has received and are exploring the possibility of signing a deal to have Glendale purchase their future parking revenue streams as well. If the parking in Glendale is worth $100 million, then the parking rights in Atlanta might be worth up to $200 million to Glendale. Hey, Glendale could start digging itself out of their sports district debt if it started to specialize in purchasing parking rights and managing parking for arenas around N. America...

On a slightly more serious note, does anyone know of a precedent where the rights to future parking revenues have been valued and purchased up front by anyone?

 

[Whileee]

Oh, I noticed that there's an updated fact sheet from the CoG on glendaleaz.com The new statement is dated Dec 20th, but I don't have the original so am not certain what's changed.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/documents/FACTSHEETGlendaleNHLCoyotesUpdated122010.pdf

Why not? Fake **** is made up all the time. See the cost/benefit analysis for example.

The new "Fact" Sheet appears to add the section on the financial details, while retaining all of the "facts" about the regional impact. An obvious prevarication is that the parking fees will cover the costs of the $100 million bonds. They are projecting less than $4 million in parking revenue for several years, and even the most conservative estimates of the bond costs would exceed that. Of course, they don't indicate in the "fact sheet" why they needed to purchase the parking rights to ALL of the events at the arena they built for the next 30 years from a businessman from Chicago. They leave the impression that it is standard in these sorts of lease negotiations to assume from the beginning that all of the future parking revenue rights initially belong to the person offering to own just one of the prospective tenants. Does anyone know of any financial analyses that were conducted when Glendale was planning to build the Jobing.com arena? Did they contemplate that they would have no rights to any parking revenue from the arena ad infinitum?

 

[Fugu]

You think Hulsizer is going to have anything to do with the management of the arena? Other than using a portion of his management fee to hire what he believes is the best management team that can manage the arena and drive new business?

I know if I was getting "paid" $97M over 6 years to run an arena that would be my first priority.

You think if someone offered me $97m over 6 yrs to manage an arena I'd say no? I have as much experience as Hulsizer in arena mgt, so I too would hire some people to do it for me. Only I'd do it in a much more fiscally responsible fashion so that the real cost of managing an arena would be far less than the sum given to me.

Oh gee..... ya think managing an arena could be subcontracted and done for far less than $100m for six years?

 

[Fugu]

So titles. Where did we leave things?

I like Imminence Front. Also, The Great Heist.

 

[gollybass]

apparently the sale information was from a bond Bond Issue prospectus the poster was e-mailed.

 

[Fugu]

apparently the sale information was from a bond Bond Issue prospectus the poster was e-mailed.

If he can forward a copy to me (email or PM), I can check it out. I just need to know the source.

 

[gollybass]

If he can forward a copy to me (email or PM), I can check it out. I just need to know the source.

nah nevermind, as we thought it was a ruse

 

[Fugu]

nah nevermind, as we thought it was a ruse

It certainly looked like a promotional piece, not something with 20 pages of disclaimers about forward looking statements.

 

[aj8000]

apparently the sale information was from a bond Bond Issue prospectus the poster was e-mailed.

Gollybass, I think someone is toying with you down on AZ Central. If a bond Issue prospectus has been emailed out, I guarantee you that there would be one news agency picking up on that fact.

One has to wonder how many more weeks they can drag this out.

I got to start typing faster...

 

[Killion]

Repeat after me, Killion. IEH is part of the deal. Click your heels together and repeat it three times. You won't end up in Kansas (could be Saskatoon, not sure), but when you come-to you'll recognize the characters by your bedside.

Ah, their we go. I thought I heard the Singer Midgets. Wasnt the wind through the willows after all. Now you go feed those hogs before they worry themselves to anemia DoubleR. Eeee Oh.... Eeeee Oh.......

On a slightly more serious note, does anyone know of a precedent where the rights to future parking revenues have been valued and purchased up front by anyone?

I dont, at least not specifically, however, their are thousands upon thousands of bonded parking districts, infrastructure improvement, on & on & on floating out there, dozens upon dozens' of firms involved in their creation on behalf of both public & private entities. Orrick Capital etc. Heres a link to an article on a parking bond issuance (including default :naughty): in New York. I think you'll find the article along with the rest of the sites edifying.....and

www.fieldofschemes.com/news/.../09/4280_yankees_parking.html

 

[gollybass]

Gollybass, I think someone is toying with you down on AZ Central. If a bond Issue prospectus has been emailed out, I guarantee you that there would be one news agency picking up on that fact.

One has to wonder how many more weeks they can drag this out.

I got to start typing faster...

as I said it was a ruse, as we thought (if you check my prior posts when it came out i was more than a little skeptical).

All I know is that I'm sick and tired of this, either stay or leave just get the hell on with it.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

I read the comment section on azcentral once or twice, and I'm pretty sure I'm a little bit dumber as a result.

 

[aj8000]

as I said it was a ruse, as we thought (if you check my prior posts when it came out i was more than a little skeptical).

All I know is that I'm sick and tired of this, either stay or leave just get the hell on with it.

I know you were skeptical, when I started my reply to your post it was the last one, got distracted for a couple of minutes and then finished the post. After I posted I saw your post stating that it was a ruse.

 

[Coach]

I read the comment section on azcentral once or twice, and I'm pretty sure I'm a little bit dumber as a result.

Yes a poster named Howard Stern admitted making up the posting on the azcentral site.

 

[cbcwpg]

Rule of thumb is to take anything posted on AZCentral with a grain of salt. It is a wide open forum where anybody can say anything.


Generally any news they print in regards to the Coyotes is a week behind the rest of the world.

 

[Fugu]

I'll call it close enough, and re-direct your attention to Imminence Front.

Given the timing (Jan 2011), things really need to happen imminently.

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=862815


Closed.