Part 4. We Don't Need An Enforcer. We have Pacioretty and Subban

[Rapala]

So you're arguing about semantics?
Sure, Enforcers and Goons are different. Enforcer is used to enforce something or someone. A goon is just a guy that fights and possibly bullies.
A guy like Prust is an enforcer. A guy like Parros is a goon. So sure, you can say it's about goons. Really, you can say they're falabalullas if you want, it doesn't matter.
It's been clear from the very first thread that people were discussing players that are used for 5 min just to fight. So really call them whatever you want, that's who we were discussing.
If you want to discuss about a guy like Prust, then everybody will agree he's a key player to have.

As far as our team is concerned Tinner should be able to spell Prust some.
But in the heat of the moment we weren't sure Tinner was actually going to be part of this team.
His camp to that point had been less than stellar.

So in reality I was completely in accordance with your stance while still calling for an enforcer.

 

[izzy75]

That's because you think so little of our team.

Hi. Me again.

So, how do you like your team?

A bunch of wins they didn't deserve.
A bunch of losses they did.

And yes, I do think very little of this year's team.

 

[Kriss E]

Hi. Me again.

So, how do you like your team?

A bunch of wins they didn't deserve.
A bunch of losses they did.

And yes, I do think very little of this year's team.

I like my team, thanks for asking. Not their fault the couch is a dumb nut.

 

[izzy75]

I like my team, thanks for asking. Not their fault the couch is a dumb nut.

_ it's the refs
_ it's Murray
_ it's only pre-season

 

[Kriss E]

_ it's the refs
_ it's Murray
_ it's only pre-season

Your trolling attempt is cute at best. If you weren't so predictable it'd be a little better.

 

[izzy75]

Your trolling attempt is cute at best. If you weren't so predictable it'd be a little better.

Kriss E - in the adolescent mind, binaries are everything.

Imagine the world of maturity, where one can love the team, but hate the current roster. Or love the game, but detest what the game has become.

You'll get there one day. Maybe.

 

[Price is Wright]

Kriss E - in the adolescent mind, binaries are everything.

Imagine the world of maturity, where one can love the team, but hate the current roster. Or love the game, but detest what the game has become.

You'll get there one day. Maybe.

When I stop liking a game I stop watching. You know, because I don't waste my time with things I don't like.

I don't understand folks who think they have to watch something out of duty. You enjoy the first years of MASH, walk away when it sucks and tune in for the finale when it's over. Nobody said you gotta watch a game you detest. Go watch something else. I hear basketball is throwing more elbows these days.

 

[japhi]

When I stop liking a game I stop watching. You know, because I don't waste my time with things I don't like.

I don't understand folks who think they have to watch something out of duty. You enjoy the first years of MASH, walk away when it sucks and tune in for the finale when it's over. Nobody said you gotta watch a game you detest. Go watch something else. I hear basketball is throwing more elbows these days.

Amen

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

When I stop liking a game I stop watching. You know, because I don't waste my time with things I don't like.

I don't understand folks who think they have to watch something out of duty. You enjoy the first years of MASH, walk away when it sucks and tune in for the finale when it's over. Nobody said you gotta watch a game you detest. Go watch something else. I hear basketball is throwing more elbows these days.

You're just reinforcing his point about limited/developing intelligence coping with information overload by reduction to binaries. In between "like" and "don't like" there's at least one category of "can tolerate (as long as...)", and patience and taste are individual from there.

 

[Price is Wright]

You're just reinforcing his point about limited/developing intelligence coping with information overload by reduction to binaries. In between "like" and "don't like" there's at least one category of "can tolerate (as long as...)", and patience and taste are individual from there.

I used to be an Islanders season ticket owner. I was alive for the dynasty. When I couldn't take what they did in the 90s I stopped watching the team completely. I went without a team for years (hence the username) but Price/Subban/Gallagher/Galchenyuk make the Habs the most exciting team for me to watch. If those players left or the team angered me to the point of me ranting about it day in and day out? I'd remember that I don't need that in my life and go find another team to follow.

People who stick to one team despite it depressing them are just creatures of habit. And it's unhealthy. None of these guys are gonna stop cheering for the team. They are just gonna keep complaining. There's a sports fan today that's prevalent who complains about everything the team does until they win a championship. Then they can say, "Hey I guess I was wrong!" despite never being happy or supporting the team before they were well on their way to winning it all.

Are they still a fan? Sure. But they are an unhealthy fan.

 

[Lshap]

Hi. Me again.

So, how do you like your team?

A bunch of wins they didn't deserve.
A bunch of losses they did.

And yes, I do think very little of this year's team.

How many more games would the Habs have won with an enforcer?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I used to be an Islanders season ticket owner. I was alive for the dynasty. When I couldn't take what they did in the 90s I stopped watching the team completely. I went without a team for years (hence the username) but Price/Subban/Gallagher/Galchenyuk make the Habs the most exciting team for me to watch. If those players left or the team angered me to the point of me ranting about it day in and day out? I'd remember that I don't need that in my life and go find another team to follow.

People who stick to one team despite it depressing them are just creatures of habit. And it's unhealthy. None of these guys are gonna stop cheering for the team. They are just gonna keep complaining. There's a sports fan today that's prevalent who complains about everything the team does until they win a championship. Then they can say, "Hey I guess I was wrong!" despite never being happy or supporting the team before they were well on their way to winning it all.

Are they still a fan? Sure. But they are an unhealthy fan.

You shouldn't feel the need to project yourself over the entirety of humanity. I'm sure there is a significant portion of the population for whom consistency of routine/habit (in all aspects of their life) contributes positively to their physical and/or mental health. Heck, maybe it's one of those things that even unites a family, no matter how frustrating it can occasionally be, making it "worth it" overall.

Maybe Doctor Phil needed to give you this talk earlier in life, but it's not a message everyone necessarily needs to hear, let alone heed (for their "well-being").

 

[S Bah]

One can moan and groan about the necessity of enforcers on NHL teams, until hell freezes over. The bottom line is there are always teams using players whose main goal is too send the message, "Make us look bad, You will pay dearly" ask Alex Galchenyuk whom was the recipient of Brandon Bollig's stick to the mouth in Sunday's loss in Montreal to Brian Burke's truculent (fighting) forward. Never one to shy away from a good scrap is Bollig or his Hamilton born buddy in the stands, Brian McGratten, two of the NHL's top heavyweights.

Surprised that Calgary is getting big #'s in the win column? I'm not surprised at all, when players realize the refs can and will call "Embellishment penalties" against star players that try to get attention to the misdeeds of these Goons. So the Habs try to get away from having an Enforcer type only to have these players dictate the flow of their games, this is nothing new to the sport of hockey, each time a team hasn't the quality necessary to compete honestly, some resort to tactics that should be used by gladiators not hockey players.

This Hab fan can barely wait for the emergence of our prospects with the abilities to handle these types, but at the same time actually play competitively at NHL standards. Those players coming are; Connor Crisp, Mike McCarron, Eric Tangradi, Jack Nevins as PWF's and a few Dmen with skills in Dalton Thrower, Darren Deitz and Josiah Didier. Now possibly that sounds like a lot of enforcers, but in reality it's good athletes that have skill, and a mean edge to their game when provoked by the likes of Bollig. That tries to use his hockey stick as a toothpick on our young superstar, sending the message "Expect this when you play against Calgary and Me". These are the types of acts that ruin hockey, like being run into a stanchion receiving a broken neck (Chara on Pacioretty), then the player that inflicts the blow doesn't even get a suspension.(Chara leads the Bruins to a Controversial Stanley Cup triumph) What does that say to the other star players, "Watch your Back, because the Refs won't". (Strange how Chara gets rewarded for that?) Just sayin.

 

[japhi]

mily, no matter how frustrating it can occasionally be, making it "worth it" overall.

Maybe Doctor Phil needed to give you this talk earlier in life, but it's not a message everyone necessarily needs to hear, let alone heed (for their "well-being").

This forum is full of messages "not everyone needs to hear" and one of the most annoying ones is "ha ha told you so this team sucks" over and over and over. Fans gloating when the team loses is flat out strange. I love it when the Leafs lose but I hate that team.

I agree with No Team Needed that if you can't stand the way the game is played today or if you think the Habs are a bunch of losers, it's hard to see what's worth it in watching the game. I find modern football boring and I think the Cowboys are a brutal team, so I go fishing on Sunday instead of wringing my hands about football and the Cowboys.

 

[Corncob]

This Hab fan can barely wait for the emergence of our prospects with the abilities to handle these types, but at the same time actually play competitively at NHL standards. Those players coming are; Connor Crisp, Mike McCarron, Eric Tangradi, Jack Nevins as PWF's

Wut?

 

[Corncob]

Good to see Izzy75 is still able to pontificate on the team, despite watching less than 10 minutes of each game....

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

This forum is full of messages "not everyone needs to hear" and one of the most annoying ones is "ha ha told you so this team sucks" over and over and over. Fans gloating when the team loses is flat out strange. I love it when the Leafs lose but I hate that team.

I agree with No Team Needed that if you can't stand the way the game is played today or if you think the Habs are a bunch of losers, it's hard to see what's worth it in watching the game. I find modern football boring and I think the Cowboys are a brutal team, so I go fishing on Sunday instead of wringing my hands about football and the Cowboys.

Hey, I don't doubt that some people are kept sane by being a bandwagon sports fan; purely following the ebb/flow of success from year to year. I'm just not one of them, and think the sweeping projections remain unnecessary and a less than universal truth.

 

[japhi]

Hey, I don't doubt that some people are kept sane by being a bandwagon sports fan; purely following the ebb/flow of success from year to year. I'm just not one of them, and think the sweeping projections remain unnecessary and a less than universal truth.

I get why you have 20K posts, you have a hard time staying on topic. Love the prose though bro... Sweeping projections, universal truths, wow!

I've been following the team since I was a kid. Just a fan, that can be frustrated and bored - very bored lately - but never get any joy from the team losing or sucking. Still love hockey and the Habs and if that makes me bandwagon so be it.

 

[Kriss E]

You're just reinforcing his point about limited/developing intelligence coping with information overload by reduction to binaries. In between "like" and "don't like" there's at least one category of "can tolerate (as long as...)", and patience and taste are individual from there.

So where does ''detest'' fall under? Is it between ''like'' and ''don't like''? Because that's what he said, that he detested the game today.

Hey, I don't doubt that some people are kept sane by being a bandwagon sports fan; purely following the ebb/flow of success from year to year. I'm just not one of them, and think the sweeping projections remain unnecessary and a less than universal truth.

Yes, you stick around, like plenty of us, because you actually like the game.
Nobody keeps watching things that they detest. That is Pejorative Slured.

 

[Kriss E]

Kriss E - in the adolescent mind, binaries are everything.

Imagine the world of maturity, where one can love the team, but hate the current roster. Or love the game, but detest what the game has become.

You'll get there one day. Maybe.

You don't love the game, you loved it. Past tense.
Quite frankly, I don't think you ever loved it really, you loved a part of it. You loved the violent side of hockey, it made everything more exciting to you. Now that hockey has been cutting on the violent side by a lot, and focusing more on skill, you stopped watching.

It's clear that your mind is very complex, a little too much for your own self. I find it rather comical though that you tried to insult me claiming I have an adolescent mind and speaking of yourself as the mature one. We all know insulting people on the internet for a difference of opinion is very mature. We also know that staying from posting and then coming back during a bad stretch to gloat is also very mature. Being presented with facts and categorically dismissing them because they go against an old belief is again, amazingly mature.
Ya, you do have a complex mind, thankfully mine operates differently.

 

[Brainiac]

Just a little bump. And I don't think I'll need to eat crow on that one, so it's a welcomed change.

Seriously... we don't even have a goon and we just beat the big bad Bruins both on the scoreboard and in the fights.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the NHL from now on. Fights will happen, of course, but goonery is mostly gone.

And the Bruins seem to have a hard time adapting.

 

[Price is Wright]

Just a little bump. And I don't think I'll need to eat crow on that one, so it's a welcomed change.

Seriously... we don't even have a goon and we just beat the big bad Bruins both on the scoreboard and in the fights.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the NHL from now on. Fights will happen, of course, but goonery is mostly gone.

And the Bruins seem to have a hard time adapting.

I think goonery is in hibernation.

Eventually a team is going to get desperate and try to bring it back. It's going to alarm everyone and you'll see the goons again. Then they'll disappear again.

Either way, Connor Crisp is gonna probably make the team as a fourth liner in a couple years and he'll take care of any "enforcing" while still being a useful, skilled player.

 

[Kriss E]

I think goonery is in hibernation.

Eventually a team is going to get desperate and try to bring it back. It's going to alarm everyone and you'll see the goons again. Then they'll disappear again.

Either way, Connor Crisp is gonna probably make the team as a fourth liner in a couple years and he'll take care of any "enforcing" while still being a useful, skilled player.

I doubt that. This isn't a small random trend. It's happening because of the change in rules and how the game is focusing a lot more towards skill.
The league isn't going to lift all the rules they put in place that makes it harder for enforcers. They aren't going to add lines to slow the game down.

I think you might start to see a rise in players like Prust. Big guys that usually would only use their fists to break the NHL know that they need to bring more than that. So they'll to focus their efforts on improving their actual hockey skills.
At that point, they're not your prototypical goon.

 

[Brainiac]

I doubt that. This isn't a small random trend. It's happening because of the change in rules and how the game is focusing a lot more towards skill.
The league isn't going to lift all the rules they put in place that makes it harder for enforcers. They aren't going to add lines to slow the game down.

I think you might start to see a rise in players like Prust. Big guys that usually would only use their fists to break the NHL know that they need to bring more than that. So they'll to focus their efforts on improving their actual hockey skills.
At that point, they're not your prototypical goon.

That's my line of thinking as well. We'll see more of guys like Prust, Beaulieu or Weise. These guys won't go out of their way to initiate a fight, but if it happens, fine. They can hold their own.

But a goon on the 4th line? Forget it. Ain't nobody got time for that.

And... I've got two questions:

1-Where are all those who said we'd be killed by the Bruins because we got rid of Parros and Murray?

2-Why these guys haven't found a job yet?

 

[V13]

For what it's worth Beaulieu can fight too. Could in Juniors , could in nightclubs and look like he can in the NHL. He clocked Fraser pretty solid last night

He probably can't go with the McGrattan and Scott of this world but he certainly can defend his teammates against pests and some middlewweights if needs be