Paradox of progress: The evolution of NHL hockey towards boredom

[tjcurrie]

Click to read more...

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Re: the "controlling the pace of the game with precision..." from one of those articles. I think that is something that is lost (or progressively being lost) in today's game, where control of the pace is seemingly attempted via athletic speed/strength as opposed to precision; long stretch passes that have to be chipped to avoid icing and have no chance of being controlled/possessed, emphasis on a north/south style of play to attack the conditioning of an opponent perhaps more than their skill, ability to grind corners on a cycle highly coveted alongside the "traditional skills", etc.

A common theme throughout the increase in speed and quality of players and game play over time is that the "truly greats" have the ability to combat/reverse such natural tendencies to the benefit of their team's effectiveness. And when you look at the players who have done it best (ex: Gretzky), it's fairly easy to conclude that precision in execution plays a huge part. Hartsburg certainly seemed to possess this quality, regardless of how he compares to "superstars" of the time beyond that.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Re: the "controlling the pace of the game with precision..." from one of those articles. I think that is something that is lost (or progressively being lost) in today's game, where control of the pace is seemingly attempted via athletic speed/strength as opposed to precision; long stretch passes that have to be chipped to avoid icing and have no chance of being controlled/possessed, emphasis on a north/south style of play to attack the conditioning of an opponent perhaps more than their skill, ability to grind corners on a cycle highly coveted alongside the "traditional skills", etc.

A common theme throughout the increase in speed and quality of players and game play over time is that the "truly greats" have the ability to combat/reverse such natural tendencies to the benefit of their team's effectiveness. And when you look at the players who have done it best (ex: Gretzky), it's fairly easy to conclude that precision in execution plays a huge part. Hartsburg certainly seemed to possess this quality, regardless of how he compares to "superstars" of the time beyond that.

The game is too fast for its own good today. The average player may have more technical skill now to a man, but the game isn't better...

 

[tjcurrie]

The game is too fast for its own good today. The average player may have more technical skill now to a man, but the game isn't better...

Agree completely. Like watching two evenly matched genius chess players go at it, unable to make a move.

Does that happen in chess? I have no idea.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Agree completely. Like watching two evenly matched genius chess players go at it, unable to make a move.

Does that happen in chess? I have no idea.

Speed chess. Play a game where you only get five total minutes per side in the game and you'll see just a lot of sloppy piece taking...the analogy is apt...

 

[tjcurrie]

Speed chess. Play a game where you only get five total minutes per side in the game and you'll see just a lot of sloppy piece taking...the analogy is apt...

I think we're on to something here. Employ the same idea to hockey. Each team has to score every 5 minutes or.....something bad happens anyways.

Agree with what you said though 100%.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

The game is too fast for its own good today. The average player may have more technical skill now to a man, but the game isn't better...

Which is almost ironic, because you'd have to say that the players are better at it. And they're better coached, which could even be an unavoidable problem of growth/development/"progress" alongside material, equipment, and facility advancements.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Which is almost ironic, because you'd have to say that the players are better at it. And they're better coached, which could even be an unavoidable problem of growth/development/"progress" alongside material, equipment, and facility advancements.

Yeah, it really is. I hate to derail the thread like this, but really almost every individual component of the game is better (except maybe goaltending, goaltending might just be more efficient but not necessarily better across the board, at least not in Canada it seems based on how their youth are developed), but yet the game itself is not better. Skill doesn't have time to percolate...it just gets run from behind one of the several wind-up toy drones that exist on every team...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Yeah, it really is. I hate to derail the thread like this, but really almost every individual component of the game is better (except maybe goaltending, goaltending might just be more efficient but not necessarily better across the board, at least not in Canada it seems based on how their youth are developed), but yet the game itself is not better. Skill doesn't have time to percolate...it just gets run from behind one of the several wind-up toy drones that exist on every team...

Creativity is one individual "skill" that absolutely has gotten worse over the last 20 years.

Another one is the backhand.

(This could be a topic for another thread).

 

[The Panther]

It's amazing to watch old games from the 80s/early 90s when you see players controlling and handling the puck much more, and much better, than they do today.

Surely, today's players can't simply be less skilled?

Maybe the game is simply too fast to allow for precision and creativity anymore.

NHL hockey kind of died for me when it became no longer possible for great players to fly down the wing and score on slapshots/wrist-shots. Can't be done anymore.

 

[McGuillicuddy]

Maybe the game is simply too fast to allow for precision and creativity anymore.

I think this is it. It's all about time/space. The speed of the game today means players have absolutely no time. The human body can only do so much, and can only react so quickly. Everything now has to be done in a fraction of a second which significantly limits the opportunity for any wizardry/imagination with the puck.

I think there is a sweet spot where as the game is fast enough to be exciting/random/frantic at times, but where the elite still have room to ply their trade and amaze us with their creativity and skill. But beyond that point the speed becomes dominant and creativity/skill become limited by what physics/anatomy will allow.

I personally think we hit that speed vs. skill sweet spot in the 80s/early 90s (e.g. 1987 CC) but as a combination of physical conditioning/training/coaching systems took away time/space we went beyond that optimum towards what we have today. Which is still a great game, but not what it was.

 

[Big Phil]

Maybe Connor McDavid can bring in a new wave of change? Every time I see that kid play I think just how natural he is out there, always creating chances, always electrifying. That isn't a word you use much now. Ovechkin was at one time someone who was electrifying. All I hope is that the NHL coach McDavid gets doesn't ruin him and let's him do his thing.

 

[Theokritos]

Creativity is one individual "skill" that absolutely has gotten worse over the last 20 years.

Another one is the backhand.

(This could be a topic for another thread).

And here it is. Hope you guys don't mind the move.

 

[daver]

Time for four on four?

 

[LeBlondeDemon10]

Time for four on four?

I've argued that a larger ice surface might be a fix. But, alas, the Oly's on European ice lacked the creativity I long for from the past. Maybe they need to schedule line changes. Keep players out there for one and 1/2 minutes so they learn how to pace themselves. Weed out this full speed, crash and bang, shoot from anywhere mentality. I'm afraid though that it starts at the youngest levels. Rush them into competition, rush them into higher levels, rush them into high stakes games, rush them into the NHL at a young age. Development on the fly. Sacrificing creativity and maturity. Oh we still see glimpses of it. Often it is surrounded by the remarkable amount of injuries today's players experience. A sad price to pay.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Time for four on four?

No, but maybe reducing game day rosters sizes to 3 lines of forwards and 3 pairs on defense (2 pairs would be too much to push as a first step) plus a backup goalie of course, would force teams to approach the 60 minutes a bit differently. Could do that AND increase the ice size by a little bit, too.

 

[Mr. Fancy Pants]

It's amazing to watch old games from the 80s/early 90s when you see players controlling and handling the puck much more, and much better, than they do today.

Surely, today's players can't simply be less skilled?

Maybe the game is simply too fast to allow for precision and creativity anymore.

NHL hockey kind of died for me when it became no longer possible for great players to fly down the wing and score on slapshots/wrist-shots. Can't be done anymore.

I loved this fake slapshot by Zibanejad earlier this year. You just don't see players do this anymore.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=698375

 

[MXD]

The death of the backhand and the refinement of tactics were not a very good thing of the quality of the game

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Basically, players have gotten too big and fast for creative plays to develop in the same sized rink that has always been used. Partly due to training, partly due to better nutritional standards, partly due to equipment.

Likewise, they shoot on the same size goal, despite goalies getting bigger - mostly due to equipment, but also the size of the man. This largely removes the ability to score while flying down the wing, which makes the attacking players more predictable.

Another complaint about equipment - all the body armor, while it prevents injuries, has a very specific detrimental effect on the game - when blocking shots doesn't cause serious injuries, everyone does it. In the past, only the bravest souls would block shots.

Likewise, the new sticks are made for the highest velocity on forehand shots... at the expense of the backhand, reducing the diversity of scoring plays further.

 

[tjcurrie]

What's funny is, you watch games from the 80s when scoring was way up, and players are getting away with near murder. The tripping, hooking, holding, mauling, etc etc. I actually prefer that.

I don't like any drastic changes in attempt to bring goals to the game (4 on 4, larger nets, larger rink, etc). I don't even like the crackdown on any type of infraction in attempt to create more powerplays, thus = more goals (hypothetically). It's not just goals that make it exciting, it's the back and forth and the scoring chances. A great save on a great chance is just as exciting as a goal, is it not?

I think the only way to get more goals without jeopardizing the integrity of the game and the players' freedom to play hard, is to shrink goal equipment back to what it was, or at least closer to.

Other than that, I'm not sure there exists any rules or stricter penalty calls that could do anything as far as opening the game up. The game has just gone in a certain direction, followed natural progression, coaches coach a certain way now, and players are what they are. It's evolution, except I don't like it.

In the pursuit of "perfecting" the game, it's kind of ruined all the fun.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

What's funny is, you watch games from the 80s when scoring was way up, and players are getting away with near murder. The tripping, hooking, holding, mauling, etc etc. I actually prefer that.

I don't like any drastic changes in attempt to bring goals to the game (4 on 4, larger nets, etc). I don't even like the crackdown on any type of infraction, in attempt to create more powerplays, thus = more goals. It's not just goals that make it exciting, it's the back and forth and the scoring chances. A great save on a great chance is just as exciting as a goal, is it not?

I think the only way to get more goals without jeopardizing the integrity of the game and the players' freedom to play hard, is to shrink goal equipment back to what it was, or at least closer to.

Other than that, I'm not sure there exists any rules or stricter penalty calls that could do anything. The game has just gone in a certain direction, followed natural progression, coaches coach a certain way now, and players are what they are. It's evolution, except I don't like it.

In the pursuit of "perfecting" the game, it's kind of ruined all the fun.

The response to that is that wrist shots and snap shots are much faster than they used to be due mostly to the fancy sticks, so you can't shrink goalie equipment without risking injuries.

 

[tjcurrie]

The response to that is that wrist shots and snap shots are much faster than they used to be due mostly to the fancy sticks, so you can't shrink goalie equipment without risking injuries.

I realize that, but my response to that would be to go back to the older model stick. Won't happen, but if I was God......

By the way I agree with your above post.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

It's amazing to watch old games from the 80s/early 90s when you see players controlling and handling the puck much more, and much better, than they do today.

Surely, today's players can't simply be less skilled?

Maybe the game is simply too fast to allow for precision and creativity anymore.

NHL hockey kind of died for me when it became no longer possible for great players to fly down the wing and score on slapshots/wrist-shots. Can't be done anymore.

The biggest contributor to that is the short-shift: Namely, go balls-to-the-wall for 30 seconds then get off the ice. There's just know time to be creative.....Which was why the short-shift game was invented in the first place: To allow a relatively unskilled team to nullify a skilled one.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

The game is too fast for its own good today. The average player may have more technical skill now to a man, but the game isn't better...

This is an argument I made a couple of years ago. It pretty much dumped on, with the general consensus being that doing nothing but doing it really fast was preferable to doing something constructive at a more moderate pace.

 

[Killion]

This is an argument I made a couple of years ago. It pretty much dumped on...

Well, Bobby Orr agree's with you and so do I, your other points as well, short~shift game etc, beyond valid, bang on.