Pre-Game Talk: Panthers at Penguins, Chuck Kobasew: 1st line winger!

[DoktorZaius]

36 year old Michal Handzus has been the de facto center for the reigning Stanley Cup champ's 2nd line.

Handzus.
De facto.
2nd line.

He's slow, but he's also like 6'5 and actually good at defense, unlike Adams, who's merely purported to be good at defense.

 

[IcedCapp]

While Handzus might be the de facto 2nd-line C for the Hawks, he plays just under a minute more than Craig Adams per game.

Handzus: 13:50 ATOI
Craig Adams: 12:52

So even if he's the 2nd line C, it doesn't seem like he's taking every shift there.

All that said, the main difference, I think, at least from my rudimentary understanding of the Blackhawks, is that they are on an eternal quest to find a true 2nd-line C/replace Handzus.

They don't have anyone better than Handzus that they are demoting/benching in favor of Handzus.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's slow, but he's also like 6'5 and actually good at defense, unlike Adams, who's merely purported to be good at defense.

He's also been the de facto 2nd line center, not just a guy who plays in the top 6 late in games.

Th point is that we're hardly the only team giving precedence to vets. The Hawks have a very old, slow player in a much more prominent position.

 

[MrBurghundy]

What the hell is his problem?? What is Dejean basing that comment off of??...that Despres NEEDS TO GO.

What did I miss?

I don't get it.

Well that among other things he tweets. I pretty much summed up my opinion on him in a post right after that. He's pretty thin skinned too.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

While Handzus might be the de facto 2nd-line C for the Hawks, he plays just under a minute more than Craig Adams per game.

Handzus: 13:50 ATOI
Craig Adams: 12:52

So even if he's the 2nd line C, it doesn't seem like he's taking every shift there.

All that said, the main difference, I think, at least from my rudimentary understanding of the Blackhawks, is that they are on an eternal quest to find a true 2nd-line C/replace Handzus.

They don't have anyone better than Handzus that they are demoting/benching in favor of Handzus.

Brandon Pirri is 22 years old, led the AHL in scoring last year, and had 11 points in 24 NHL games with 12:13 TOI/G this year when Handzus was injured. He's currently in the AHL.

http://www.rantsports.com/nhl/2014/...rri-as-chicago-blackhawks-second-line-center/

 

[MrBurghundy]

I absolutely hate the argument that because somebody else does something, that makes it ok for you to do it too.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yes. Contrary to popular belief, we're not the only team with Adams and Glass types.

That are used in the way DB uses those two guys? I can't think of one team that has washed up 4th liners as their shutdown wingers, or who are the first options to immediately replace rookies in the top six when DB feels he needs more "stability" midway through a game.

Maybe Detroit, with Cleary and Bertuzzi. But even at their advanced age, those two have more talent in their little finger than Glass and Adams showed in their prime.

 

[IcedCapp]

I absolutely hate the argument that because somebody else does something, that makes it ok for you to do it too.

Yea, me too, but I still think we can argue on merit anyhow.


1) Michal Handzus is a better player than Craig Adams

2) The Penguins and Dan Bylsma start games/practices with a player in mind on that line (Beau Bennett, Joe Vitale (I won't include Brandon Sutter because I believe the decision to move him off the line was tactical)) and then give them 10 minutes, while bumping Adams TOI up an additional 3 or so, under the false premise that Adams is better than he is in the defensive zone. The same happened with Megna on the 2nd line. He got ~10 minutes a game and Glass/Adams would get promoted, even though Adams with Geno is even worse than Adams with Crosby.

 

[mpp9]

I don't get it either. I don't see anything overly alarming about the Despres situation. They were never going to trade a veteran like Orpik, Martin, Scuderi or Letang to make room for him. Once Maatta played out of his mind and was kept and Niskanen of all people rocking a stat line that a hall of fame D-Man would be proud of. He's got 48GP 6G 19A 31Pts and is a +26 this season. That ate up the last two available spots on D for this season. Despres was doomed to the minors when that chain of events happened and he'll be stuck there until a veteran or two leaves in UFA. It happens. It's sort of like what you heard from a lot of GM's about the Olympic team rosters. There were some young guys they liked but didn't make it and you'd often hear the GM's say it's just not their time yet. Despres will have to wait another year to be on this Pens team full time.

I suppose they could still trade him if they get an offer they like or if they feel even more young D like Pouliot and some others will also pass him by over the next few years but this isn't a he has to go situation.

This year, sending him down is no big deal. But moving forward, it depends how they plan on handling the D prospects. Do they feel Pouliot can handle bottom pairing minutes next year? Are they higher on Dumoulin than Despres? Not to mention Harrington will need to get a look eventually.

If they see behind some of those guys moving forward, then I can see why they'd look to move him before he becomes waiver eligible.

 

[Fire Shero*]

right now they're are 4th and 5th best wingers and it's not even close.

That's why we need to make some trades. We are supposed to be a contender.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I absolutely hate the argument that because somebody else does something, that makes it ok for you to do it too.

Do you understand the argument that because the coaches of many successful teams are doing it, maybe you shouldn't throw your coach under the bus for it?

Tofffoli just got sent down to the AHL. Tarasenko was benched for all but one game of the playoffs last year. Dougie Hamilton was benched for a good portion of the playoffs. Nyquist and Tatar has a hell of a time cracking the Detroit line-up because it was filled with past their prime vets.

Bylsma gives preference to vets. He is far from alone.

 

[JTG]

I'm just nervous we go with Megna and Bennett in the top six.

Maybe in the future, just not this year.

No time like the present. If we wait to play them, then we're right back in the same position. Play the guys and see what we have.

****, Megna has definitely been one of our better wingers every game he's played in.

 

[mpp9]

Brandon Pirri is 22 years old, led the AHL in scoring last year, and had 11 points in 24 NHL games with 12:13 TOI/G this year when Handzus was injured. He's currently in the AHL.

http://www.rantsports.com/nhl/2014/...rri-as-chicago-blackhawks-second-line-center/

They want a vet in that spot. Kane isn't exactly a defensive ace. And they usually roll a rookie on the LW there. They've tried Shaw there recently, so it's not like they dont' see the problem.

I can handle one teacher's pet/odd roster decision. Adams, ok. But not both Glass and Adams. It's hilarious watching other contender's 4th lines, and then watching ours. Guys who can actually change the flow of a game versus Gladams chasing the puck around and trying not to get scored on.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

36 year old Michal Handzus has been the de facto center for the reigning Stanley Cup champ's 2nd line.

Handzus.
De facto.
2nd line.

Handzus has been off the second line for a solid two weeks now, with Marcus Kruger getting a shot there, and now lately it's been Andrew Shaw.

Chicago is keeping that spot warm right now for Teuvo Teravainen, who'll probably wind up in Chicago once his Finnish Liiga campaign ends.

We all should be thankful that Chicago has a hole/weakness right now. Otherwise, chasing rentals and trying to improve any other team would be pointless. For me, they're clearly the class of the NHL WITHOUT a true No. 2 center.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Whoa, the talk in this thread sure looks familiar:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1583793

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

They want a vet in that spot. Kane isn't exactly a defensive ace. And they usually roll a rookie on the LW there. They've tried Shaw there recently, so it's not like they dont' see the problem.

I can handle one teacher's pet/odd roster decision. Adams, ok. But not both Glass and Adams. It's hilarious watching other contender's 4th lines, and then watching ours. Guys who can actually change the flow of a game versus Gladams chasing the puck around and trying not to get scored on.

I have to appreciate the irony of this argument.

 

[wej20]

That's why we need to make some trades. We are supposed to be a contender.

Top 9 definitely needs to be improved but these injuries have given chances to Bennett and Megna especially.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

I can't think of another team/coach that puts someone as slow and useless as Adams out with his best players, on the belief that it will improve the lines' competency.

Mike Babcock

 

[mpp9]

I have to appreciate the irony of this argument.

I've been on record saying I don't think Beau is ready to fill Sid's RW come playoffs. At least not without other options there. Just as the Hawks' prospects aren't ready to handle 2C duty on a team looking to repeat.

They've rotated players in that role for years. So it's hardly a revelation. Shaw's the next guy up.

A coach using Glass and Adams to shut teams down in key moments is a joke. No other contender would.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

As long as Bylsma isn't under the delusion that Jokinen-Malkin-Neal will cut it in the playoffs, then I don't have too much to complain about.

I also don't have a ton of confidence in what I just said.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Do you understand the argument that because the coaches of many successful teams are doing it, maybe you shouldn't throw your coach under the bus for it?

Tofffoli just got sent down to the AHL. Tarasenko was benched for all but one game of the playoffs last year. Dougie Hamilton was benched for a good portion of the playoffs. Nyquist and Tatar has a hell of a time cracking the Detroit line-up because it was filled with past their prime vets.

Bylsma gives preference to vets. He is far from alone.

Just because I understand the argument doesn't mean I agree with it. I think the NHL in general is back ***wards for the most part when it comes to a lot of things (this argument in particular, fighting, reffing, etc.). Just because those teams are winning doesn't mean they are winning because they are treating their young players that way. There are so many variables involved it's literally impossible to draw a direct correlation. Especially in our scenario where the young players are being replaced by guys who suck at their jobs when given bigger roles, and the young guys have proven they deserve more rope with their level of play. If our young players were dog **** on the ice, and made mistake after mistake, then yeah I get it, but they aren't. Quite the opposite.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Just because I understand the argument doesn't mean I agree with it. I think the NHL in general is back ***wards for the most part when it comes to a lot of things (this argument in particular, fighting, reffing, etc.). Just because those teams are winning doesn't mean they are winning because they are treating their young players that way. There are so many variables involved it's literally impossible to draw a direct correlation. Especially in our scenario where the young players are being replaced by guys who suck at their jobs when given bigger roles, and the young guys have proven they deserve more rope with their level of play. If our young players were dog **** on the ice, and made mistake after mistake, then yeah I get it, but they aren't. Quite the opposite.

My position is this:

If people calling for Bylsma's head are doing so in an effort to affect change, then what's the point of howling every thread about vets being given preference over young players when it's happening everywhere? What do people think a change will solve on that front?

It's classic "grass is always greener" mentality, IMHO.

 

[dueling mullets]

i would like to know why taylor pyatt isnt with geno this game since they killed it last time. JJ also did well w Sutter last game

agreed, especially if beau is back soon, a line of megna/bennet with jokinent and sutter could actually be a real nhl 3rd line

 

[MrBurghundy]

My position is this:

If people calling for Bylsma's head are doing so in an effort to affect change, then what's the point of howling every thread about vets being given preference over young players when it's happening everywhere? What do people think a change will solve on that front?

It's classic "grass is always greener" mentality, IMHO.

I understand that, I really do. I just refuse to believe that all coaches out there play inferior guys for zero logical reason. Besides, there are problems with Bylsma other than the way he uses young players that are just as damning, and I'm not about to get into that again.

Josh Yohe ‏@JoshYohe_Trib 1h
Letang just took a face off against Sutter. Time to end practice, I think.

I mean this is just practice and all, but really? Not going to harp on it but it's things like this and using Letang as a forward on a 4v4...

 

[Waffle Fries]

I think the Trib hates French Canadian defensemen and prides themselves on trying to run them out of town.