Value of: Panarin AND Bobrovsky to the Panthers?

[The Jones Zone]

Does the OP want Columbus to throw in Jones also, you know something to sweeten the deal

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

The plan is not to tank the 2019 Jackets just for the sake of the 2020 Jackets. The team can cross that bridge when it gets to it.

And thats how you end up bottom of the standings for a decade, when you let two high end talents walk

 

[Crede777]

Getting high end assets back for them gives hope, losing them for nothing kills hope.



That type of plan takes you nowhere, mediocrity plan.

It wouldn't kill hope. What kills hope is the front office essentially throwing the towel in a season early.

If Bob and Panarin want to walk and set back a highly competitive team, that's on them and all criticism should be leveled at them rather than the front office.

Also, a bunch of mid 1st round picks, prospects, and 25 cents can get you a cup of coffee. They're zero value assets.

 

[Crede777]

And thats how you end up bottom of the standings for a decade, when you let two high end talents walk

Yeah I'm sure the 16th overall pick and a guy who winds up playing in the AHL will totally help the team a ton in the near future.

Also, even losing Panarin and Bob won't cause the team to be in the basement. The rest of their core is just too good.

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

And thats how you end up bottom of the standings for a decade, when you let two high end talents walk

Better trade them for something, anything!

 

[major major]

Yeah I'm sure the 16th overall pick and a guy who winds up playing in the AHL will totally help the team a ton in the near future.

Also, they aren't letting the talents walk. They are willing to make great offers. If the players decide to walk, it is on them.

Don't worry Crede, Hieponiemi and Bjugstad will save the Jackets from a decade at the bottom of the standings.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Yeah I'm sure the 16th overall pick and a guy who winds up playing in the AHL will totally help the team a ton in the near future.

Also, they aren't letting the talents walk. They are willing to make great offers. If the players decide to walk, it is on them.

I didnt say you have to trade them for peanuts

And no thats on the GM for letting them walk. If the players dont want to sign you trade them; not think you're going to win the cup in the next two years when Columbus hasnt passed the first round and then have nothing to show for it, ultimately setting back the franchise 5-7 years

 

[Crede777]

Don't worry Crede, Hieponiemi and Bjugstad will save the Jackets from a decade at the bottom of the standings.

Right?

Gimme 1 year of Panarin over Bjugstad, Florida's 1st (lottery protected) and a B prospect any day of the week.

 

[Crede777]

I didnt say you have to trade them for peanuts

And no thats on the GM for letting them walk. If the players dont want to sign you trade them; not think you're going to win the cup in the next two years when Columbus hasnt passed the first round and then have nothing to show for it, ultimately setting back the franchise 5-7 years

If you have been paying attention, the best offers they have been given are a package of futures akin to what I just said.

There is a reason they haven't been traded yet, and the reason isn't because Jarmo is dumb.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

If you have been paying attention, the best offers they have been given are a package of futures akin to what I just said.

There is a reason they haven't been traded yet, and the reason isn't because Jarmo is dumb.

Whether or not the trade value coming back is good enough, its better than the nothing Columbus will be left with when they leave.

Either they sign or they get moved. Its really that simple, assets coming back are worth more than the pride of not taking a bad deal and the very low chance at a Cup run

 

[major major]

I didnt say you have to trade them for peanuts

And no thats on the GM for letting them walk. If the players dont want to sign you trade them; not think you're going to win the cup in the next two years when Columbus hasnt passed the first round and then have nothing to show for it, ultimately setting back the franchise 5-7 years

What players back from Florida do you think will keep the Jackets from being setback 5-7 years?

 

[Viqsi]

Getting high end assets back for them gives hope, losing them for nothing kills hope.

The bolded is the sticking point. Folks aren't offering those in these threads, and start marketsplaining to us about blah blah blah UFAs have no value et cetera et cetera any time we dare request such assets. Because, y'know, we're a small market with relatively little history, so obviously we can't possibly have any clue what we're talking about, and they graciously choose to educate us.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

What players back from Florida do you think will keep the Jackets from being setback 5-7 years?

I didn't say it has to be from Florida. People are far underestimating what Columbus would get back for both.

But, if they cant get anything good - they take what they can get or will sorely regret it.

 

[major major]

I didn't say it has to be from Florida. People are far underestimating what Columbus would get back for both.

But, if they cant get anything good - they take what they can get or will sorely regret it.

So they will sorely regret not accepting something that isn't good? I'm confused.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

So they will sorely regret not accepting something that isn't good? I'm confused.

Its simply but maybe the point was missed

Great, good, bad, any sort of return > no return at all

What organizations have ever benefited from letting stars walk? Columbus isn't contenders so why keep them if they won't sign?

 

[major major]

Its simply but maybe the point was missed

Great, good, bad, any sort of return > no return at all

What organizations have ever benefited from letting stars walk? Columbus isn't contenders so why keep them if they won't sign?

Okay, but I'm sure at some point the return is low enough it's not worth it right? I don't think you literally mean "any sort of return". To my mind, a meh prospect and a second round pick isn't worth one playoff series of Artemi Panarin. We traded something like that for Thomas Vanek, and will probably do that again. For Panarin, it would have to be a lot more than that.

Imagine trading your stars for futures that don't pan out, and then think back to that season when you probably should have just went for it. That would be something you sorely regret.

 

[major major]

The oddsmakers had the Jackets at something like 18-1 odds before the news about Panarin hit. It dropped under the assumption he'd be moved. I think that's reasonable. Those odds aren't bad. There is certainly a value to going for it. People talk like the value of this year is zero, and it's definitely not. This might be the best shot for a while.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Okay, but I'm sure at some point the return is low enough it's not worth it right? I don't think you literally mean "any sort of return". To my mind, a meh prospect and a second round pick isn't worth one playoff series of Artemi Panarin. We traded something like that for Thomas Vanek, and will probably do that again. For Panarin, it would have to be a lot more than that.

Imagine trading your stars for futures that don't pan out, and then think back to that season when you probably should have just went for it. That would be something you sorely regret.

The offers would never get that low and if they do the player likely isnt willing to sign anywhere but one or two teams; even then I doubt it ever gets THAT low.

Columbus should be smart and move both ASAP if they are not signing. Most value with the most time left on their contracts

 

[major major]

The offers would never get that low and if they do the player likely isnt willing to sign anywhere but one or two teams; even then I doubt it ever gets THAT low.

Columbus should be smart and move both ASAP if they are not signing. Most value with the most time left on their contracts

"Any sort of return", "okay but not that low". Can you provide an example for once? I'd like to know what you think is an acceptable return, because the verbiage is all over the place.

And it's not ideal to move anyone now - Bob could be resigned anyday, and Artemi can always change his mind (I'd say 10% chance on that). And it's not assured that the price is higher now than later. Artemi is still making his mark on the league, a year ago folks thought he was just a wingman, and I'm not sure everyone has figured it out yet.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

"Any sort of return", "okay but not that low". Can you provide an example for once? I'd like to know what you think is an acceptable return, because the verbiage is all over the place.

And it's not ideal to move anyone now - Bob could be resigned anyday, and Artemi can always change his mind (I'd say 10% chance on that). And it's not assured that the price is higher now than later. Artemi is still making his mark on the league, a year ago folks thought he was just a wingman, and I'm not sure everyone has figured it out yet.

Panarin isn't changing his mind because that requires his wife to as well. Bobrovsky is a toss up.

Columbus is pretty screwed either way on the situation

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Great, good, bad, any sort of return > no return at all

See, this is problematic and really the crux of the entire discussion at this point. What you posted that I've bolded is something I and many other CBJ posters strongly disagree with.

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to see that there's some value in holding Panarin (and Bobrovsky, for the sake of this discussion). Where that value falls on a scale that includes varying assets returned in trade can be discussed, but it's sure not the bolded.

 

[CBJFan827]

Whether or not the trade value coming back is good enough, its better than the nothing Columbus will be left with when they leave.

Either they sign or they get moved. Its really that simple, assets coming back are worth more than the pride of not taking a bad deal and the very low chance at a Cup run

This isn't correct. Columbus won't be left with nothing by keeping them. Several million more dollars in revenue from likely at least 2-3 more playoff home games, with the chance of that being 4-6 more home games if they get to round 2, is far from nothing. This city is on the cusp of really positive growth, and a playoff run, even into the second round, would do amazing things to build (more) fanatical support for the team.

This isn't like the 2018 Isles (Tavares) or the 2013-14 dumpster fire Sabres (Ryan Miller) who did or did not trade off their expiring stars. Columbus is actually in the position to compete for and in the playoffs. If the season starts poorly and that isn't the case, then sure, look more firmly into trading Bob and Bread. But as of now, this is silly. We have been competitive as the youngest team in the league the last 3-4 years. To say this would close our contention window thoroughly baffles me.

Picks, prospects, and more bottom six forwards, which is all anyone has been offering in these threads, is not any help to the franchise. If we had a valuation table, that has to be second to the bottom for us to both miss significant time to injury, which I don't foresee. Another first round exit and both walking does more for the franchise than the "run of the mill" rental value many posters so adore referencing but not making tangible.

Stuff not in direct response to Nok Hockey:
Furthermore, there is no deal that would make trading Bobrovsky, with the goalie market being so insanely volatile, make sense. None. The league has not figured out valuation for goalies, because just like that, a veteran netfminder (Ben Bishop, MA Fleury) can be surpassed by a young backup even when they are playing well (Vasilevskiy, Matt Murray).

Also, for the love of Gordie Howe, y'all need to stop with the "model girlfriend" subtext stuff.

 

[thebus88]

Okay, but I'm sure at some point the return is low enough it's not worth it right? I don't think you literally mean "any sort of return". To my mind, a meh prospect and a second round pick isn't worth one playoff series of Artemi Panarin. We traded something like that for Thomas Vanek, and will probably do that again. For Panarin, it would have to be a lot more than that.

ANY sort of return is better for every year past 18/19 than NOT getting a return. These are assets. Valuable ones. Maybe not both, but at least 1 guy should be moved. We can debate on the word "waste" but it would absolutely be a missed opportunity to add LEGIT PIECES back into the Org. That's the thing, this "any" return would NEVER be a 2nd rounder and "meh" prospect. You said it yourself, that about the value for a Vanek level guy as a rental. Nobody would offer that, Jarmo wouldn't accept it, and nobody in here is saying the CBJ would or should take that kind of deal. However, it still WOULD be better for the team in the long run. Could be minimal, but wouldn't be worse off with a 2nd and 3rd rounder. AND you still have the "hope" of them re-signing "clouding" your logic on if the team should move them or not or just HOW much would have to be offered for you to accept.

See, this is problematic and really the crux of the entire discussion at this point. What you posted that I've bolded is something I and many other CBJ posters strongly disagree with.

I don't understand why it's so hard for people to see that there's some value in holding Panarin (and Bobrovsky, for the sake of this discussion). Where that value falls on a scale that includes varying assets returned in trade can be discussed, but it's sure not the bolded.

For 2020 and beyond YES IT IS. Even JUST a 2nd and 3rd rounder will have SOME positive impact on the team moving forward. Could be a very small impact, yes. Anybody could have a career ending/altering injury at ANY time.

But that's the thing ITS NEVER going to be just a 2nd and 3rd rounder and a cap dump.

 

[jonlin]

I understand the value theese players has in getting Jackets to a playoff-run. But to loose them for nothing after 1-2 rnds is worse than getting a decent return now. Lets say both would fetch something around a 1st, a good prospect + a rosterplayer. Theese assets would do wonders for the team in a few years. Depending on the players, they could also fit in nicely and still be in the playoffs.

Panthers get:

- Panarin ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

- Bjugstad
- Borgström
- 1st 2019 ( unprotected )

Carolina get:

- Bobrovsky ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

-Faulk
-Darling
-1st 2019

Florida and Carolina get the pieces they need and pays a hefty ransom. Blue Jackets get 2 1st and a very promising young C in Borgström. Faulk, Bjugstad and Darling will be good additions for a playoffrun. Bluejacket get slightly worse for now, but will get very nice assets for upcoming UFA:s.

 

[Crede777]

Panarin isn't changing his mind because that requires his wife to as well. Bobrovsky is a toss up.

Columbus is pretty screwed either way on the situation

Panarin doesn't have a wife. His agent has already said Panarin's girlfriend isn't a driving force in this situation.

It is clear that Panarin is intent on reaching free agency. I don't think he will extend early - with Columbus or anyone else.

I also think it is clear that he hasn't eliminated Columbus as a possibility. In his complete honesty, Panarin said he wasn't sure at this time if he wants to stay in Columbus. If he had made his mind up, he almost certainly have informed management since he has already said he would understand if Columbus traded him due to his uncertainty and risk he may leave.

It isn't a foregone conclusion that he leaves.

What is a foregone conclusion is missing the playoffs this season "is not an option" according to Jarmo Kekkalainen.