Value of: Panarin AND Bobrovsky to the Panthers?

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

I understand the value theese players has in getting Jackets to a playoff-run. But to loose them for nothing after 1-2 rnds is worse than getting a decent return now. Lets say both would fetch something around a 1st, a good prospect + a rosterplayer. Theese assets would do wonders for the team in a few years. Depending on the players, they could also fit in nicely and still be in the playoffs.

Panthers get:

- Panarin ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

- Bjugstad
- Borgström
- 1st 2019 ( unprotected )

Carolina get:

- Bobrovsky ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

-Faulk
-Darling
-1st 2019

Florida and Carolina get the pieces they need and pays a hefty ransom. Blue Jackets get 2 1st and a very promising young C in Borgström. Faulk, Bjugstad and Darling will be good additions for a playoffrun. Bluejacket get slightly worse for now, but will get very nice assets for upcoming UFA:s.

Thanks for the laugh.

You can have Bjugstad and a 1st though.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

For 2020 and beyond YES IT IS. Even JUST a 2nd and 3rd rounder will have SOME positive impact on the team moving forward. Could be a very small impact, yes. Anybody could have a career ending/altering injury at ANY time.

But that's the thing ITS NEVER going to be just a 2nd and 3rd rounder and a cap dump.

As if the time between now and 2020 is meaningless?

I agree with your oft-stated point that the Jackets were good before Panarin and will be good again after he's gone. But they are better right now with him. That's not value-less.

I understand the value theese players has in getting Jackets to a playoff-run. But to loose them for nothing after 1-2 rnds is worse than getting a decent return now.

But those two things negate each other. You aren't losing them "for nothing" if you have a "playoff run." That is value, and it's not easy to measure, but it exists.

Lets say both would fetch something around a 1st, a good prospect + a rosterplayer. Theese assets would do wonders for the team in a few years. Depending on the players, they could also fit in nicely and still be in the playoffs.

Panthers get:

- Panarin ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

- Bjugstad
- Borgström
- 1st 2019 ( unprotected )

Carolina get:

- Bobrovsky ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

-Faulk
-Darling
-1st 2019

Florida and Carolina get the pieces they need and pays a hefty ransom. Blue Jackets get 2 1st and a very promising young C in Borgström. Faulk, Bjugstad and Darling will be good additions for a playoffrun. Bluejacket get slightly worse for now, but will get very nice assets for upcoming UFA:s.

I'm not going to get into the particulars of what you've suggested might be returns. I'm on record saying that keeping both players fits somewhere in a spectrum of value of assets returned in trade. Some returned assets (if offered) would likely be above keeping them, some would not. But the notion that any assets returned has more value than holding is wrong, in my opinion.

 

[CBJFan827]

I understand the value theese players has in getting Jackets to a playoff-run. But to loose them for nothing after 1-2 rnds is worse than getting a decent return now. Lets say both would fetch something around a 1st, a good prospect + a rosterplayer. Theese assets would do wonders for the team in a few years. Depending on the players, they could also fit in nicely and still be in the playoffs.

Panthers get:

- Panarin ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

- Bjugstad
- Borgström
- 1st 2019 ( unprotected )

Carolina get:

- Bobrovsky ( extended )

Blue Jackets get:

-Faulk
-Darling
-1st 2019

Florida and Carolina get the pieces they need and pays a hefty ransom. Blue Jackets get 2 1st and a very promising young C in Borgström. Faulk, Bjugstad and Darling will be good additions for a playoffrun. Bluejacket get slightly worse for now, but will get very nice assets for upcoming UFA:s.

I don't think anyone on the Columbus side would argue that trading them is completely off the table. However, the return has to be quality. Most people have discussed things that are anything but decent returns. This, however, is a high quality return for both players. I would value such a return over holding them both for a run.

If the returns were, say, McGinn, Tippett, and a 1st and Darling, Gauthier, a 2nd, and a 4th, respectively, those aren't moving the needle.

Thanks for putting for an actual suggestion rather than the "they'll get the base UFA rental return and nothing more" that many posters keep saying without substance.

EDIT: Having 3 firsts this next draft, Darling as a stop gap as Tarasov/Merzlikins/Korpisalo continue to develop, a top prospect in Borgstrom, a middle six forward, and even more defensive depth with Faulk. That's nearly ideal, even without directly replacing Panarin. We could then deal Faulk or Savard for more assets or as part of a package for the top line scoring winger we'd still need.

 

[Viqsi]

I don't think anyone on the Columbus side would argue that trading them is completely off the table. However, the return has to be quality. Most people have discussed things that are anything but decent returns. This, however, is a high quality return for both players. I would value such a return over holding them both for a run.

If the returns were, say, McGinn, Tippett, and a 1st and Darling, Gauthier, a 2nd, and a 4th, respectively, those aren't moving the needle.

Thanks for putting for an actual suggestion rather than the "they'll get the base UFA rental return and nothing more" that many posters keep saying without substance.

EDIT: Having 3 firsts this next draft, Darling as a stop gap as Tarasov/Merzlikins/Korpisalo continue to develop, a top prospect in Borgstrom, a middle six forward, and even more defensive depth with Faulk. That's nearly ideal, even without directly replacing Panarin. We could then deal Faulk or Savard for more assets or as part of a package for the top line scoring winger we'd still need.

Darling isn't a stopgap. Darling would instantly become the worst goaltender in the organization. That's basically a cap dump.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Panarin doesn't have a wife. His agent has already said Panarin's girlfriend isn't a driving force in this situation.

It is clear that Panarin is intent on reaching free agency. I don't think he will extend early - with Columbus or anyone else.

I also think it is clear that he hasn't eliminated Columbus as a possibility. In his complete honesty, Panarin said he wasn't sure at this time if he wants to stay in Columbus. If he had made his mind up, he almost certainly have informed management since he has already said he would understand if Columbus traded him due to his uncertainty and risk he may leave.

It isn't a foregone conclusion that he leaves.

What is a foregone conclusion is missing the playoffs this season "is not an option" according to Jarmo Kekkalainen.

Panarin’s agent lied once already

Hes gone dude, the sooner you realize the better off youll be

 

[Crede777]

Panarin’s agent lied once already

Hes gone dude, the sooner you realize the better off youll be

Apparently you can see the future.

The sooner you realize that I and a bunch of other CBJ fans on here VALUE making the playoffs this season over a couple of picks and prospects, the better you'll be.

EDIT: Having 3 firsts this next draft, Darling as a stop gap as Tarasov/Merzlikins/Korpisalo continue to develop, a top prospect in Borgstrom, a middle six forward, and even more defensive depth with Faulk.

Columbus had 3 1sts in 2013 and took Wennberg (their own pick), Rychel, and Dano. Unless you think one of the other teams is going to fail miserably and the pick isn't lottery protected, I don't see how this moves the needle so to speak.

Look at Jarmo's record drafting with picks numbered 15-45. It isn't very good at all.

 

[CBJFan827]

Columbus had 3 1sts in 2013 and took Wennberg (their own pick), Rychel, and Dano. Unless you think one of the other teams is going to fail miserably and the pick isn't lottery protected, I don't see how this moves the needle so to speak.

Look at Jarmo's record drafting with picks numbered 15-45. It isn't very good at all.

Are you saying that two 2019 1st round picks, a versatile 2nd line forward, a good RD, a top forward prospect, and a stop gap goaltender, all signed (aka cost controlled) for 2-4 years more, is an inadequate return for Bob and Panarin?

If so, I don't know what to tell you. Those two deals offer a lot more roster flexibility and boom potential with a significant chance to continue competing this season.

The franchise is in a very different place than it was in 2013. Then he needed to build up a foundation for the franchise, and picked mostly safe, if unspectacular, options like Wennberg. The last few years he and his scouting staff have been more aggressive/risky with higher picks. I'm cautiously optimistic management would make good picks if those two deals were on the table.

 

[Crede777]

Are you saying that two 2019 1st round picks, a versatile 2nd line forward, a good RD, a top forward prospect, and a stop gap goaltender, all signed (aka cost controlled) for 2-4 years more, is an inadequate return for Bob and Panarin?

If so, I don't know what to tell you. Those two deals offer a lot more roster flexibility and boom potential with a significant chance to continue competing this season.

The franchise is in a very different place than it was in 2013. Then he needed to build up a foundation for the franchise, and picked mostly safe, if unspectacular, options like Wennberg. The last few years he and his scouting staff have been more aggressive/risky with higher picks. I'm cautiously optimistic management would make good picks if those two deals were on the table.

I would probably accept the Bobrovsky offer although I would hate to deal him within the division.

I do not think Panarin will agree to a sign and trade. But assuming he does...

I would turn down the Panarin offer for the simple fact that it includes Bjugstad. I would need Florida to offer a better forward and let them reduce the quality of the pick or prospect.

The CBJ unlike Montreal cannot accept an offer in which the most valuable asset is a future (Suzuki for Montreal).

I am not saying they need someone as good as Panarin, they won't get that. But they need someone who is as good as Saad was (50-60 point guy) and Bjugstad isn't there. My targets would be Huberdeau from Florida, Johnson from TBL, and Eberle (extended) from NYI.

Otherwise, I would put more value in a year of play from Panarin and then sheer capspace to go after a top free agent forward (and there look to be a few). To add some perspective - Jarmo gave Vegas the Jackets 1st in 2017 just for them to take on Clarkson because it was absolutely vital they have the capspace to be able to re-sign Bob and Panarin.

 

[CBJFan827]

I would probably accept the Bobrovsky offer although I would hate to deal him within the division.

I do not think Panarin will agree to a sign and trade. But assuming he does...

I would turn down the Panarin offer for the simple fact that it includes Bjugstad. I would need Florida to offer a better forward and let them reduce the quality of the pick or prospect.

The CBJ unlike Montreal cannot accept an offer in which the most valuable asset is a future (Suzuki for Montreal).

I am not saying they need someone as good as Panarin, they won't get that. But they need someone who is as good as Saad was (50-60 point guy) and Bjugstad isn't there. My targets would be Huberdeau from Florida, Johnson from TBL, and Eberle (extended) from NYI.

Otherwise, I would put more value in a year of play from Panarin and then sheer capspace to go after a top free agent forward (and there look to be a few). To add some perspective - Jarmo gave Vegas the Jackets 1st in 2017 just for them to take on Clarkson because it was absolutely vital they have the capspace to be able to re-sign Bob and Panarin.

I see, and from that perspective I understand. I would argue Bjugstad is the least valuable piece in that deal. Having a player like Borgstrom cost controlled as an RFA for some years has a ton of value in my mind.

 

[major major]

I am not saying they need someone as good as Panarin, they won't get that. But they need someone who is as good as Saad was (50-60 point guy) and Bjugstad isn't there. My targets would be Huberdeau from Florida, Johnson from TBL, and Eberle (extended) from NYI.

I'm not even that excited for those three guys. Maybe Huberdeau, but all three of those guys come off as complementary types at this point. None of them are line-drivers. Johnson might not be an upgrade on Wennberg even, he's very up and down.

 

[major major]

Are you saying that two 2019 1st round picks, a versatile 2nd line forward, a good RD, a top forward prospect, and a stop gap goaltender, all signed (aka cost controlled) for 2-4 years more, is an inadequate return for Bob and Panarin?

If so, I don't know what to tell you. Those two deals offer a lot more roster flexibility and boom potential with a significant chance to continue competing this season.

Getting Borgstrom back is something serious. Two 1sts is serious. Those three established players aren't really that helpful themselves - Darling is a dump, Faulk is mostly valuable for the PP so he should be traded, Bjugstad hasn't been good at center in years now and he's not an upgrade on a half dozen of our wingers. If you can get an additional mid-first for both Faulk and Bjugstad, that would be intriguing. 4 mid-firsts + Borgstrom is something I'd probably accept if that is the best offer you are going to get and you're positive that both Bob and Panarin are not coming back.

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying, I don't think the best offers will be right now. Everyone likes their team right now. Let them play and the problems will become visible. Great play from the UFAs to be will only help their price.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Getting Borgstrom back is something serious. Two 1sts is serious. Those three established players aren't really that helpful themselves - Darling is a dump, Faulk is mostly valuable for the PP so he should be traded, Bjugstad hasn't been good at center in years now and he's not an upgrade on a half dozen of our wingers. If you can get an additional mid-first for both Faulk and Bjugstad, that would be intriguing. 4 mid-firsts + Borgstrom is something I'd probably accept if that is the best offer you are going to get and you're positive that both Bob and Panarin are not coming back.

Contrary to what a lot of people are saying, I don't think the best offers will be right now. Everyone likes their team right now. Let them play and the problems will become visible. Great play from the UFAs to be will only help their price.

Are you saying (4) 1sts + Borgstrom from FLA is the asking price for BOB and Breadman? You said youd "probably" accept that? So 5 1st round picks in total?

 

[major major]

Are you saying (4) 1sts + Borgstrom from FLA is the asking price for BOB and Breadman? So 5 1st round picks in total?

Asking price, I don't know, I was discussing the merits for the Jackets.

But it's two of the league's best players, signed long term, so don't get pissy about it. If it looks like the Eric Lindros return, well it damn well should!

 

[CBJFan827]

Are you saying (4) 1sts + Borgstrom from FLA is the asking price for BOB and Breadman? You said youd "probably" accept that? So 5 1st round picks in total?

This is based on the previously posted deals of Panarin to Florida and Bob to Carolina, that each involve a 1st rounder this next year. Those two, plus our 2019 1st, plus a first from repackaging one or both of Bjugstad/Faulk (more likely the latter) would give us 4 1st rounders for the 2019 draft, plus Borgstrom.

Only a single 1st coming from Florida. No worries

EDIT: jonlin's post on the previous page

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Asking price, I don't know, I was discussing the merits for the Jackets.

But it's two of the league's best players, signed long term, so don't get pissy about it. If it looks like the Eric Lindros return, well it damn well should!

Misread the dialogue. My bad. Thought you lost your mind and were asking for 5 1st round picks from FLA. All good.
@CBJFan827 cleared it up for me.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Apparently you can see the future.

The sooner you realize that I and a bunch of other CBJ fans on here VALUE making the playoffs this season over a couple of picks and prospects, the better you'll be.


Columbus had 3 1sts in 2013 and took Wennberg (their own pick), Rychel, and Dano. Unless you think one of the other teams is going to fail miserably and the pick isn't lottery protected, I don't see how this moves the needle so to speak.

Look at Jarmo's record drafting with picks numbered 15-45. It isn't very good at all.

Oh I dont doubt you value making the playoffs. Your problem is valuing a 1-2 round playoff for a year or two over the future.